Defensive POY voting

[BballTim]

Rondo is a "great" defensive player with his steals like Iverson was a "great" scorer in 2001-02--scoring 31.4 points a game, but only shooting 39%.

  Your dislike of Rondo really colors the way you look at him. When I checked the numbers on 82games a month or so ago he was leading all point guards in lowest opponent PER, eFG%, fewest rebounds and fewest assists allowed and was top 3-4 in steals. His opponent had a lower offensive efficiency than any of the top point guards, any other starter on the Celts and any other member of the 2010 first or second team all-defense teams.

  I don't think that it's easy to statistically measure defense, but there are a lot of stats that try to based on opponent productivity. Almost every one has Rondo at or near the top of the league. KG is high as well but PP and RA don't fare as well so it's not a case of all the Celts being the best because of their defense. These stats obviously measure more than steals. I think if people actually compared how Rondo defends to how other point guards defend they'd be pretty surprised by the results.

[kozlodoev]

Rondo being 5th in the voting is an absolute joke. His backup, Delonte West, is a better defensive player than he is.

No offense, but didn't you say you wanted Delonte starting over him and that you wanted Rondo traded?

Yea, considering that, it says a lot that coaches who probably don't get to see ROndo play as much as you do feel he's a better defensive player than what you (or anyone else) give him credit for.

Considering that Doc had to keep Rondo out of the Washington game, because Delonte was doing a better job on John Wall defensively, I can see why his 5th place raises some eyebrows around here.

He'll always get votes for DPOY because he gets a ton of steals, but he's not always a great positional defender. Part of this is because he plays the hardest position to defend, but part of it is just because he gambles for steals instead of concentrating on staying in front of his man. He doesn't seem particularly good in fighting through screens, either.

On the other hand, does his 5th spot mean he's a lock for first-team all-defense again?

[get_banners]

TA being healthy this long is a shocker to me. Always knew he could play well (minus the bball IQ mistakes, which are still there, somewhat), but he ALWAYS got hurt. Anyway, kudos to him.

[pearljammer10]

How was Rondo voted 5th???his constant letting his man blow past him then desperately swipe from behind was so annoying

Cant we for once put away the negativity and be happy for one of our own players accomplishments? 

[Tai]

Rondo being 5th in the voting is an absolute joke. His backup, Delonte West, is a better defensive player than he is.

No offense, but didn't you say you wanted Delonte starting over him and that you wanted Rondo traded?

Yea, considering that, it says a lot that coaches who probably don't get to see ROndo play as much as you do feel he's a better defensive player than what you (or anyone else) give him credit for.

Considering that Doc had to keep Rondo out of the Washington game, because Delonte was doing a better job on John Wall defensively, I can see why his 5th place raises some eyebrows around here.

He'll always get votes for DPOY because he gets a ton of steals, but he's not always a great positional defender. Part of this is because he plays the hardest position to defend, but part of it is just because he gambles for steals instead of concentrating on staying in front of his man. He doesn't seem particularly good in fighting through screens, either.

On the other hand, does his 5th spot mean he's a lock for first-team all-defense again?

....I sure hope you don't mean Game 81 of the regular season, when Doc was trying to rest his top 4 guys. That can't be part of your case against Rondo, even though Delonte did do well that game. Well, then again, it is the only game against the Wizards this season that Rondo sat out... but really?!

You also say Rondo will always get DPOY because of the steals , yet he's the only PG in the top 10 of steals AMONG PGs that was in the top 10 of DPOY voting; Chris Paul was 13th AND just happened to be the only PG to average more steals than Rondo DESPITE playing more games than him.

In fact, every PG in the top 10 of steals among PGs with Rondo played more games than him; the other 9 played at least 74 games while Rondo only played 68.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/steals/sort/avgSteals/seasontype/2/position/point-guards

Again, it says a lot that coaches and whomever are willing to give Rondo more credit than you are, who also see that Rondo isn't a good defensive PG just because he gets steals. All I've gotten from you and Kung is that you're not a fan of gambling on defense overall, so you try to use it to overstate Rondo's flaws, no matter how often he actually does it. Or, perhaps you just don't like Rondo period. 

[BballTim]

Rondo being 5th in the voting is an absolute joke. His backup, Delonte West, is a better defensive player than he is.

No offense, but didn't you say you wanted Delonte starting over him and that you wanted Rondo traded?

Yea, considering that, it says a lot that coaches who probably don't get to see ROndo play as much as you do feel he's a better defensive player than what you (or anyone else) give him credit for.

Considering that Doc had to keep Rondo out of the Washington game, because Delonte was doing a better job on John Wall defensively, I can see why his 5th place raises some eyebrows around here.

  I don't think I saw much of that game but it was, obviously, 1 game.

He'll always get votes for DPOY because he gets a ton of steals

  This isn't the case. Players that get as many or more steals than Rondo don't get any (or many) DPOY votes. I think he's the only pg to make the top 5 since Payton. His steals would have to be well ahead of everyone else if your claim was true.

On the other hand, does his 5th spot mean he's a lock for first-team all-defense again?

  Possibly, but his late season slump might work against him.

[GreenEnvy]

I always thought Rondo's defense, at least this season, was very overrated.


I don't mind D12 winning, but I'd take KG as the anchor of my defense over him ten times out of ten.

[StartOrien]

Andre Iguodala being the 8th leading candidate is a pretty terrible job. I mean, he's no Keith Bogans but I thought he could defend a little.

[kozlodoev]

On the other hand, does his 5th spot mean he's a lock for first-team all-defense again?

  Possibly, but his late season slump might work against him.

He is the top vote-getter among PGs for DPOY, I just thought it would be weird for him not to be first-team all-defense as well. Not impossible, I guess.

Your other points are valid. I just feel that a lot of the defense awards go on reputation alone, and Rondo has benefited from that a little bit recently.

[housecall]

Not bad for a 34/35yr.old view'd by many as the dirtiest player in the NBA...thanks to people that are able to breakdown tape and decide where the best defense is being played and by whom.If D.Howard is still in the top 2/3 in defense when he's in his mid 30's would be even more impressive.Congrats to KG and Rondo.

[Capricious]

Rondo is not a gambler - gamblers jump the passing lane and get out of position.  Rondo gets his steals when he gets stuck on a pick / his man beats him and the only action he can take is to poke it out.

I can't believe AI finished 8th - probably the best wing defender in the league.

[throwedoff]

How was Rondo voted 5th???his constant letting his man blow past him then desperately swipe from behind was so annoying

Cant we for once put away the negativity and be happy for one of our own players accomplishments? 

Yo I usually dont be one to pack him up and criticize but ya'll seriously think he was the 5th best defender in the league? ****hwtbs

[kozlodoev]

Rondo is not a gambler - gamblers jump the passing lane and get out of position.  Rondo gets his steals when he gets stuck on a pick / his man beats him and the only action he can take is to poke it out.

I can't believe AI finished 8th - probably the best wing defender in the league.

Sure he is: he will much rather swipe at the ball rather than play good, fundamental defense and stay between his man and the basket.

This typically results in other PGs blowing by him on a regular basis, silly fouls, and lots of gray hair for Celtics fans.

In his defense, PG is the hardest position defensively these days, given that you are supposed to guard some of the fastest guys in the NBA without any contact (most of the time).

[BballTim]

Rondo is not a gambler - gamblers jump the passing lane and get out of position.  Rondo gets his steals when he gets stuck on a pick / his man beats him and the only action he can take is to poke it out.

I can't believe AI finished 8th - probably the best wing defender in the league.

Sure he is: he will much rather swipe at the ball rather than play good, fundamental defense and stay between his man and the basket.

This typically results in other PGs blowing by him on a regular basis, silly fouls, and lots of gray hair for Celtics fans.

In his defense, PG is the hardest position defensively these days, given that you are supposed to guard some of the fastest guys in the NBA without any contact (most of the time).

  It's not that he'd much rather swipe at the ball, it's that he *does* swipe at the ball when his man gets past him. Honestly, if he made no attempt to swipe at the ball on those plays and never knocked the ball loose many people here would be happier with his defense. He commits very few fouls like that, he's 2nd in the league in steals per foul.