My thoughts on the Celtics and their bench in game 1 (Glen Davis Rant)

[KungPoweChicken]

Glen Davis has simply been awful for quite some time. I don't know how anyone could see it differently.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Glen Davis:  11.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1 steal, 45% from the field, 73.6% from the free-throw line.  True Story.

Not counting centers, though he often plays there, he's 28th in the league in FG% among PF. He takes 10 shots per game to produce 11.7 points, that's not good. True story, he's 29th in the league among PF in points per shot.

And then you want to talk about Pierce? He's 5th in the whole league in points per shot and 3rd among SF in FG% this year.

[Yogi]

   Since there are 30 teams, there are 30 power forwards who start in the league.  Since Glen Davis is the 28th in FG%, and he comes off the bench that would mean he's probably one of the best shooting power-forwards coming off the bench right?  
  In other words, if there are 30 power-forwards that start and 30 power-forwards coming off the bench in the league.  He's 28th out of 60.  That sounds pretty good to me.  
   Pierce is a hall-of-famer.  What is the point of comparing his point per shot to some one who comes off the bench?

[jdz101]

Have his average minutes gone up from previous seasons?

I liked baby at the 20 to 25 minute mark but it seems to me that it's creeping up to 30+ lately.

I have a feeling that physical fitness will become a factor once minutes get high like that and as much as I like baby, he's detrimental to the team when not at full speed.

[Edgar]

Smoy

I will leave this here

hope bbd plays half as good as you think he is
We will be champs then and we all will be happy

[Casperian]

Glen Davis:  11.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1 steal, 45% from the field, 73.6% from the free-throw line.  True Story.

Not counting centers, though he often plays there, he's 28th in the league in FG% among PF. He takes 10 shots per game to produce 11.7 points, that's not good. True story, he's 29th in the league among PF in points per shot.

Since there are 30 teams in the NBA, these stats make him look like a starter. Not bad to have the guy as our 6th man, huh? 

Btw, calling an NBA player, one who worked his butt off to get into good condition, a "fat piece of..." is as ignorant as it gets, imo, and should be labeled as such. Why Celticsblog has a problem with that, but allows these BBD mass-insults, is beyond me. If I wanted to read this stuff, I would post on Lakersground, not here.

[dlpin]

I am sorry, but I think it is undeniable that Davis has played much worse lately than he did earlier in the season. FG% by month:

.667
.439
.455
.446
.391
.470
.402

40% is unacceptable by a big man.

This does not show a pattern.  He shoots around 45% most of the months.  He had one great month, and two poor ones.  Garnett has mentioned that Glen was playing through an injury.  Also people also go through poor streaks.  I believe even Ray shot under 40% for a couple of weeks.  As I've posted above his field goal percent is higher than a lot of starting bigs in the NBA. 

How is it not a pattern if his 2 worst months have come over the past 3 months?

[Roy H.]

I am sorry, but I think it is undeniable that Davis has played much worse lately than he did earlier in the season. FG% by month:

.667
.439
.455
.446
.391
.470
.402

40% is unacceptable by a big man.

This does not show a pattern.  He shoots around 45% most of the months.  He had one great month, and two poor ones.  Garnett has mentioned that Glen was playing through an injury.  Also people also go through poor streaks.  I believe even Ray shot under 40% for a couple of weeks.  As I've posted above his field goal percent is higher than a lot of starting bigs in the NBA. 

How is it not a pattern if his 2 worst months have come over the past 3 months?

Yeah, but in fairness to BBD, his best shooting month (other than the small sample size of October) was last month.  It makes it harder to say there's a definitive pattern, unless that pattern is "wildly inconsistent".

[BballTim]

I am sorry, but I think it is undeniable that Davis has played much worse lately than he did earlier in the season. FG% by month:

.667
.439
.455
.446
.391
.470
.402

40% is unacceptable by a big man.

This does not show a pattern.  He shoots around 45% most of the months.  He had one great month, and two poor ones.  Garnett has mentioned that Glen was playing through an injury.  Also people also go through poor streaks.  I believe even Ray shot under 40% for a couple of weeks.  As I've posted above his field goal percent is higher than a lot of starting bigs in the NBA. 

How is it not a pattern if his 2 worst months have come over the past 3 months?

  Having his second best month in the middle of his slump pretty much kills the pattern.

[EJPLAYA]

  Since there are 30 teams, there are 30 power forwards who start in the league.  Since Glen Davis is the 28th in FG%, and he comes off the bench that would mean he's probably one of the best shooting power-forwards coming off the bench right?  
  In other words, if there are 30 power-forwards that start and 30 power-forwards coming off the bench in the league.  He's 28th out of 60.  That sounds pretty good to me.  
   Pierce is a hall-of-famer.  What is the point of comparing his point per shot to some one who comes off the bench?

So now we are content with a guy who is barely good enough to be a starter on the very worst teams in the NBA, even though those guys that he is ahead of probably can actually rebound the ball so are adding other value to their teams?! Your argument is that he sucks, but not as bad as some teams PF's suck?!

Come on. They guy doesn't produce. He is a poor shooter, rebounder, assist guy, free throw shooter, wing defender, etc. He is less effective because he has allowed himself to balloon up in weight. He can't get off the ground. I have no respect whatsoever for a guy who gets in the best shape of his life right before he gets drafted, and then starts packing the weight back on. When BBD was thinner, he was a much more effective player. It is no coincidence that since he has packed on pounds, his shooting percentage has gone down, his drawn charges have gone down, and his overall game has slid. It's time to realize that BBD's best days are behind him.

[kozlodoev]

  Since there are 30 teams, there are 30 power forwards who start in the league.  Since Glen Davis is the 28th in FG%, and he comes off the bench that would mean he's probably one of the best shooting power-forwards coming off the bench right?  
  In other words, if there are 30 power-forwards that start and 30 power-forwards coming off the bench in the league.  He's 28th out of 60.  That sounds pretty good to me.  
   Pierce is a hall-of-famer.  What is the point of comparing his point per shot to some one who comes off the bench?

So now we are content with a guy who is barely good enough to be a starter on the very worst teams in the NBA, even though those guys that he is ahead of probably can actually rebound the ball so are adding other value to their teams?! Your argument is that he sucks, but not as bad as some teams PF's suck?!

So who do you want to have as your first sub off the bench, Dirk? How about some perspective?

Having someone who is good enough to be a fringe starter to come off the bench is a premium. I'm not simply content with this, I am actually pretty happy. Other teams have players like Jared Jeffries to fill this slot.

[EJPLAYA]

  Since there are 30 teams, there are 30 power forwards who start in the league.  Since Glen Davis is the 28th in FG%, and he comes off the bench that would mean he's probably one of the best shooting power-forwards coming off the bench right?  
  In other words, if there are 30 power-forwards that start and 30 power-forwards coming off the bench in the league.  He's 28th out of 60.  That sounds pretty good to me.  
   Pierce is a hall-of-famer.  What is the point of comparing his point per shot to some one who comes off the bench?

So now we are content with a guy who is barely good enough to be a starter on the very worst teams in the NBA, even though those guys that he is ahead of probably can actually rebound the ball so are adding other value to their teams?! Your argument is that he sucks, but not as bad as some teams PF's suck?!

So who do you want to have as your first sub off the bench, Dirk? How about some perspective?

Having someone who is good enough to be a fringe starter to come off the bench is a premium. I'm not simply content with this, I am actually pretty happy. Other teams have players like Jared Jeffries to fill this slot.

No. I don't want Dirk. I want a guy who isn't a big tub of lard that can put SOME reasonable stats on the board. Someone that does SOMETHING well.

If you are a championship team you need bench players who have a skill that is starter level. At least one. A rebounder, a passer, a shooter, something. The reason they are subs is that they usually only do that one thing well, or two things. If they had the whole package they'd be starters. BBD on the other hand does a bunch of things mediocre. That isn't good enough. He is the reason our second unit struggles. He is a ball stopper.

I am most concerned about who ISN'T playing while he is out there. Who ISN't shooting while he is out there. Green should be getting 10+ more minutes a game that BBD is taking from him. He should be getting 5+ more shots a game that BBD is taking from him. We would be a better unit.

[Capricious]

Im ok with Glen if hes playing 20min a night and stops shooting 18 footers.

This year, he shot 35% on 16-23footers and took 4.6/gm (up from 1/gm last year).  For reference, Rondo took 3.3/gm @ 41%.

[dlpin]

If you can't see the pattern by month, then how about by pre and post all star?
pre allstar game: .457
post all star game: .429


And I think that the discussion about how he compares to other back ups is a bit misleading. Not many other back ups are being asked to play 30 minutes a night. Of all forwards who have played at least 29mp/g this season, BBD is 40th out of 50 in FG%, and the only ones behind him are primarily 3 point shooters (Jamison,  Rashard Lewis, etc).

He is 34th out of 50 in rebounding (and the ones behind him are all either small forwards or 3 point shooting power forwards).

Of all the power forwards still in the playoffs who play at least 29 minutes a night, he is last in fg%, last in rebounds per game, last in blocks per game.

And I am not saying this to say that BBD is a bad player. But he is a great 7th/8th man. But for a playoff team with title hopes, he shouldn't be playing starter minutes.

[kozlodoev]

No. I don't want Dirk. I want a guy who isn't a big tub of lard that can put SOME reasonable stats on the board. Someone that does SOMETHING well.

So, you don't want someone who outperforms the position he is cast into (e.g. performs like a fringe starter while coming off the bench), but you want someone who "puts some reasonable stats". 12 points and 5.5 rebounds in 29 minutes would be reasonable for a lot of people -- certainly is for me.

Davis does multiple things well: he defends multiple positions, sets solid screens, can get his own shot both facing up and with his back to the basket.

The reason why he's taking too much flack is that the rest of the team exploits his offensive versatility to bail themselves out all the time. In fact, in percentage terms, Davis is taking substantially more shots in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock than anyone else on the Celtics (close to 25% of his total shots), and it's no surprise that he his shooting percentage for this segment (~.350) makes him look bad.