Interesting stats about Ray's clutch 3 point shooting

[OsirusCeltics]

Not that I ever want to give Kobe credit, but I can see the argument for him being a better clutch player.

Kobe's a regular season clutch player
Ray is a playoffs/Finals clutch player

I always go with the playoff guy more

[Fafnir]

I think the difference between Kobe and Ray is Kobe gets the ball, and isolates and makes ridiculous shots, much like Pierce.  Ray is more of an off ball clutch shooter, that gets open looks and drains them, where as Kobe almost always has a hand (or two) in his face.

That '09 Bulls-Celtics series was a perfect example of Ray making clutch shots off the dribble when KG was injured for the playoffs. But he's the 3rd option, so he just doesn't have that luxury

Wasn't he breaking down Ben Gordon largely in that series?

I also think Ray's decline has most shown itself when he has the ball. He just cannot get by most defenders anymore. That Bulls series was two years ago after all.

[Roy H.]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

[OsirusCeltics]

I think the difference between Kobe and Ray is Kobe gets the ball, and isolates and makes ridiculous shots, much like Pierce.  Ray is more of an off ball clutch shooter, that gets open looks and drains them, where as Kobe almost always has a hand (or two) in his face.

That '09 Bulls-Celtics series was a perfect example of Ray making clutch shots off the dribble when KG was injured for the playoffs. But he's the 3rd option, so he just doesn't have that luxury

Wasn't he breaking down Ben Gordon largely in that series?

I also think Ray's decline has most shown itself when he has the ball. He just cannot get by most defenders anymore. That Bulls series was two years ago after all.

It was Henrick also
But yeah, totally right. Him and Kobe are just not able to do it anymore cause of their age
But as far as overall career, Ray has been more reliable in the clutch

[Fafnir]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

Plus much of Ray's shooting advantage comes from his superior shot selection. It's not like Kobe is a poor jump shooter by any means, he's just a chucker and takes too many contested ones.

[OsirusCeltics]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

I think its sad that no one ever remembers Ray Allen when he was on the Bucks or Sonics. Unstoppable off the dribble and the perimeter. Drew fouls off the dribble also

His career parallels Earl Monroe in that both were potent offensive players but had to change their game to fit on a championship team, and become a 3rd option

[Fafnir]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

I think its sad that no one ever remembers Ray Allen when he was on the Bucks or Sonics. Unstoppable off the dribble and the perimeter. Drew fouls off the dribble also

His career parallels Earl Monroe in that both were potent offensive players but had to change their game to fit on a championship team, and become a 3rd option

I do remember him from those days. I loved watching him run the fast break.

Kobe was better then too.

[OsirusCeltics]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

I think its sad that no one ever remembers Ray Allen when he was on the Bucks or Sonics. Unstoppable off the dribble and the perimeter. Drew fouls off the dribble also

His career parallels Earl Monroe in that both were potent offensive players but had to change their game to fit on a championship team, and become a 3rd option

I do remember him from those days. I loved watching him run the fast break.

Kobe was better then too.

Kobe had better teammates (Shaq). But that's about it

[GreenFaith1819]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

I think its sad that no one ever remembers Ray Allen when he was on the Bucks or Sonics. Unstoppable off the dribble and the perimeter. Drew fouls off the dribble also

His career parallels Earl Monroe in that both were potent offensive players but had to change their game to fit on a championship team, and become a 3rd option

I do remember him from those days. I loved watching him run the fast break.

Kobe was better then too.

Kobe had better teammates (Shaq). But that's about it

Kobe was a better defender, too...age has considerable affected Kobe's defense, especially this season...and even then he is still a slightly better defender than Ray.

Didn't kobe make a few All-NBA Defensive teams?

I do give Ray much props for working to improve his defense since coming to Boston. He's really worked at it.

[Roy H.]

Didn't kobe make a few All-NBA Defensive teams?

A few as in 10 All-Defense teams.

[OsirusCeltics]

Sigh.  Another Ray vs. Kobe tangent?

Ray is a better shooter, Kobe is a better player.  Period.

I think its sad that no one ever remembers Ray Allen when he was on the Bucks or Sonics. Unstoppable off the dribble and the perimeter. Drew fouls off the dribble also

His career parallels Earl Monroe in that both were potent offensive players but had to change their game to fit on a championship team, and become a 3rd option

I do remember him from those days. I loved watching him run the fast break.

Kobe was better then too.

Kobe had better teammates (Shaq). But that's about it

Kobe was a better defender, too...age has considerable affected Kobe's defense, especially this season...and even then he is still a slightly better defender than Ray.

Didn't kobe make a few All-NBA Defensive teams?

I do give Ray much props for working to improve his defense since coming to Boston. He's really worked at it.

Great points
I do think Kobe didn't deserve those 1st or 2nd team all defense awards though. Bowen, Payton, Artest, and Battier were much better defenders in the last decade

[GreenEnvy]

I don't know why Kobe being talked about in a thread about Ray's clutchness. Especially when statistics prove Ray is one of, if not the greatest clutch shooter ever. Kobe is a mediocre player (statistically speaking) in crunch time. For every make we see 30 times on Sportscenter, he has two misses.

Kobe is like Pierce, he can take over a game over the entire 4th quarter with his relentlessness. But NOBODY can make shots with the game on the line with the regularity that Ray does.

[Fafnir]

Didn't kobe make a few All-NBA Defensive teams?

A few as in 10 All-Defense teams.

Many of those on reputation rather than performance. When Kobe puts the effort in he's a fantastic defender. But for many years of his career he coasted completely on that end. (Very similar to Pierce in this regard, except Pierce wasn't a big enough star to command reputation votes over other forwards)

[Chelm]

Not that I ever want to give Kobe credit, but I can see the argument for him being a better clutch player.

Kobe's a regular season clutch player
Ray is a playoffs/Finals clutch player

I always go with the playoff guy more

If the trade were offered, you wouldn't trade Ray Allen for Kobe straight up?

I think the biggest difference here is that Ray can get to an open spot on the perimeter and be fed the ball.  Kobe has to create the shot himself.  Kobe is not a bad shooter- in fact, far from it.  If I recall correctly, he hit 12 three point shots in a row in a game, and I'm willing to bet more than a few of them were contested.

Ray is a great pure shooter... arguably the best ever, but he is not as good a player as Kobe.

EDIT:  looked it up, it was 9 in a row, and 12 in the game in total, not 12 in a row.

[OsirusCeltics]

Not that I ever want to give Kobe credit, but I can see the argument for him being a better clutch player.

Kobe's a regular season clutch player
Ray is a playoffs/Finals clutch player

I always go with the playoff guy more

If the trade were offered, you wouldn't trade Ray Allen for Kobe straight up?

I think the biggest difference here is that Ray can get to an open spot on the perimeter and be fed the ball.  Kobe has to create the shot himself.  Kobe is not a bad shooter- in fact, far from it.  If I recall correctly, he hit 12 three point shots in a row in a game, and I'm willing to bet more than a few of them were contested.

Ray is a great pure shooter... arguably the best ever, but he is not as good a player as Kobe.

Ray Allen as a Buck and Sonic was doing the same exact thing Kobe has been doing as far as creating shots/off the dribble. But being on the Celtics and becoming a 3rd option he had to change his game