Why I remain optimistic

[ram]

Just 2 years ago, the Celtics took a very good Magic (EC Champs) team to 7 games with this lineup:

Perk

Baby

Pierce

Ray

Rondo

Bench: Scalabrine, House and Marbury. Mikki Moore played little as the 4th off the bench.

While the guys are 2 years older, we've lost Perk, Scal, House and Marbury

and replaced them with

Shaq, JO, West and Green

Oh, and we also get back the best defensive PF in the history of the game.

Miami, Chicago, and Orlando of 2011 > Orlando & Cleveland of 2009 but are they THAT much better?

[GreenFaith1819]

Good Points..love the optimism (TP).

[Marcus13]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

[LB3533]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

I still believe we can and will win it all, but just because you have those guys, doesn't mean they will play like it in the Finals.

[OsirusCeltics]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008  

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

Because of what, that Perk guy?
The guy who averaged only 13 min in the 2008 NBA Finals and was a non-factor in the critical games 4 and 6?

JO >> Perk
Shaq's size alone clogs the lane better than what Perk can do
Their defense is actually better then last year

The bench has Wafer, West, Pavlovic, Green, Murphy, Big Baby, JO, and Kristic. And you say its the worst bench? Wow

[Celticjay]

This bench has been bad but it never had a chance to get a rhythm due to the trade and injuries.  With a shortened bench of JO, JG, DWest and Baby they should be very very good.   Just keep the scrubs like arroyo, kristic, pavlovic etc off the floor.  Better to have a few guys paying extended minutes rather than multiple getting short spurts.

Realistically, though there won't be too many positions 1-4 only the center position.

[Ersatz]

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

It'd be nice if you proved or at least defined this in some way. Because when I think of "interior defense," I think of opponent shooting percentage close to the basket. And here's the Celtics' defensive percentages and league ranks for this season:

At the rim: 60.8% (3rd)
3-9 feet:   38.7% (12th)
10-15 feet: 35.9% (2nd)

So the first and third are elite numbers, and while they don't do as well defensively on 3-9-foot shots, they are just outside of the top third of the league.

I don't see how any of that equates to "no interior defense." Can you elaborate?

[Marcus13]

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

It'd be nice if you proved or at least defined this in some way. Because when I think of "interior defense," I think of opponent shooting percentage close to the basket. And here's the Celtics' defensive percentages and league ranks for this season:

At the rim: 60.8% (3rd)
3-9 feet:   38.7% (12th)
10-15 feet: 35.9% (2nd)

So the first and third are elite numbers, and while they don't do as well defensively on 3-9-foot shots, they are just outside of the top third of the league.

I don't see how any of that equates to "no interior defense." Can you elaborate?

Our interior defense was tremendous.  Shaq, Perk, Erden, and a healthy KG made that one of the brightest spots on the team.  We lost Shaq, that hurt.  We traded Erden, that made us pretty [dang] thin.  We traded Perk and replaced him with Jeff Green who gets assaulted in the paint and Nenad freakin Kristic.

Idc about any numbers pre- All Star Break.  They're irrelevent.  Tony Parker, Louis Williams, D. Wade, D. Rose, and countless others have dominated us.  Spencer Hawes and Elton Brand made our bigs look like D-Leaguers.

[nyceltsfan]

This bench has been bad but it never had a chance to get a rhythm due to the trade and injuries.  With a shortened bench of JO, JG, DWest and Baby they should be very very good.   Just keep the scrubs like arroyo, kristic, pavlovic etc off the floor.  Better to have a few guys paying extended minutes rather than multiple getting short spurts.

Realistically, though there won't be too many positions 1-4 only the center position.

I'm not sure how to feel about the bench this year.  I cannot claim that this is better than the 2008 bench.  Posey was as key to that championship run as anybody on the team.  PJ Brown came up huge and Eddie House made some great hustle plays and big buckets.

Until Jeff Green has the impact that Posey had (on both ends of the floor) and until D West makes those huge shots that House made, I cannot give this bench the benefit of the doubt.  I think JO will be better than Brown, though.

[2short]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

wow
although injured shaq is a HUGE upgrade over Perk
JO is a big upgrade over Perk
and this is the best bench danny has put together, love eddie but we had to sign sam cassell to bring the ball up the court when rondo wasn't in, PJ did his job, posey has turned into the messiah here
our current BENCH
krstic, 3rd string center good enough to start for okc
jo, 2nd string center, starter for miami
jeff green, backup sf starter out of posistion for okc
delonte west, starter for cleveland
Davis
this above group along with starters puts us 10 deep

Wafer
Arroyo
Sasha
all good end of rotation guys much like scal was

[Marcus13]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

wow
although injured shaq is a HUGE upgrade over Perk
JO is a big upgrade over Perk
and this is the best bench danny has put together, love eddie but we had to sign sam cassell to bring the ball up the court when rondo wasn't in, PJ did his job, posey has turned into the messiah here
our current BENCH
krstic, 3rd string center good enough to start for okc
jo, 2nd string center, starter for miami
jeff green, backup sf starter out of posistion for okc
delonte west, starter for cleveland
Davis
this above group along with starters puts us 10 deep

Wafer
Arroyo
Sasha
all good end of rotation guys much like scal was

I stopped reading.  I don't even believe that's your honest opinion

[wdleehi]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

Are all the hall of famers still even at all-star form?  Are they even all playing? 



And how has this bench proven itself to be so good? 



What have you seen recently that should make us feel positive right now? 

The recent record?
The 4th quarter inside softness?


And don't give me "they did it last year".  That was a different team. 

And why is it arrogant to have a different opinion then you?

Do I think this team is toast?  Of course not.  If Shaq is healthy and the rest of the team pulls their heads out of their..., they have a good chance. 


But that is a lot of ifs right now. 

[Jon]

While I'm not sure that I'd call myself overly optimistic, I'd definitely wouldn't put myself into the Perk-is-gone-the-season-is-over group either. 

I really think some people are using selective, romanticized visions of the past when they remember Perkins. 

Perkins was a heck of a player and one of my favorite players when he was here; however, I think the notion that the Celtics would have a vastly different record if he was here is patently untrue and ignores a lot of what's happened over the past two years. 

Now that is not to say that the following two things aren't true/won't be true:

1) We may indeed end up regretting the Perkins trade come playoff time, especially if Shaq isn't effective. 

2) Our lack of size (particularly on the defensive end) has contributed to our poor play. 

However, to say that we'd be the #1 seed if Perk was here ignores two very clear facts:

1) We did phenomenally well with Shaq starting for us, even when Semih Erden (who is not a good player) was backing him up. 

2) Kendrick Perkins was here last year when we went finished the season even worse than we finished it this year.  So this notion that Perk's presence would've magically made everyone play hard and well is just flat out false. 

Again, I'm not saying that the people upset about the Perk trade don't have valid concerns.  However, at this point nothing is really all that different than last year when this team fell apart in the latter half the season and limped into the playoffs.  And if they could almost win it all doing that last year, they certainly could do it again this year. 

[OsirusCeltics]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008 

Are all the hall of famers still even at all-star form?  Are they even all playing? 



And how has this bench proven itself to be so good? 



What have you seen recently that should make us feel positive right now? 

The recent record?
The 4th quarter inside softness?


And don't give me "they did it last year".  That was a different team. 

And why is it arrogant to have a different opinion then you?

Do I think this team is toast?  Of course not.  If Shaq is healthy and the rest of the team pulls their heads out of their..., they have a good chance. 


But that is a lot of ifs right now. 

No, its that people expect them to be robots. And play like puppets to please the media that their championship contenders. Lakers tried to do "prove that they are back" by going 17-1. Then all that adrenaline has tailed off, caught up with them and they just had a 5 game losing streak.

I rather them pace themselves. They are not some young team that can go 48 min all the time

And the Big 4 were 2011 all stars! How are they not in "all star form"? Pierce is having one of his best seasons, but everyone keeps focusing on the Perk trade. Just a few weeks ago when they went into San Antonio, they looked pretty good to me

[Yogi]

It boggles my mind that people can be so negative and arrogant

When Celtics have 4 hall of famers and a rising superstar in Rondo, with the best bench they had since 2008  

This is the worst bench this team has had in the last four years...along with no interior defense

   Let's compare the 2008 rotation players' performance in the playoffs with todays rotation players.  
The big 3 are averaging better numbers across the board in less minutes than they did in 2008.  The only categories we are slightly worse is KG's rebounding and Ray Allen's FT%.  
Rondo's numbers are also up across the board except his FT% which is slightly worse.  He has nearly doubled his Assists however.  
   As starting center, Perkins averaged 6.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.28 blocks in 25 min.  When healthy I believe Jermaine O'Neal can easily give us much more.  Despite his injuries he has given very similar numbers on a per minute basis.  I believe these numbers will go up as he gets healthy and develops chemistry.  His last game was his best game with impressive numbers.  
   Sam Cassell and House were the respective backups for Rondo and Ray.  They combined for 7 points 2 assists and 2 rebounds in 20 min.  In 2011, Delonte West is averaging 5.6 points, 2.7 assists, 1.6 rebounds in less time.  These numbers should also go up in the playoffs as he develops chemistry and learns our plays.  
   Backing up 3-4 was Posey.  He averaged 6.7(43.7%) points, 3.6 rebounds and 1 assists.  Tony Allen chipped in 1.3 points in 4 min.  Jeff Green has averaged 9.8 (48.5%) points, 3.3 rebounds and 0.7 assists in similar amount of time.  He has shown significant improvement in the end of the season.  His numbers should also improve in the playoffs.  
   Backing up the 4 was Powe and Baby.  They combined for 7.3 points, 4.2 rebounds and 0.6 assists in 20 min.  This year Baby is averaging 11.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, and 1.2 assists in 30 min.  
   Backing up the 5 spot we had P.J.Brown.  He averaged 3 points, 2.5 rebounds and 0.5 assists in 14 min.  In 2011 we have Shaq with 9.2 points, 4.8 rebounds and 0.7 assists in 20 min.  And (in case Shaq is out) Kristic with 9.1 points, 5.3 rebounds and 0.3 assists.  
   As a whole our rotation players this year average have more steals and blocks than the rotation players in 2008.  
   Also as insurance in 2008 we had Scalabrine, Pruitt, Pollard.  This year we have Bradley, Arroyo, Wafer, Pavlovic, and Murphy.  
    Despite the trade and injuries, we have kept opponents to 91.1 ppg and 43.5% FG as opposed to 90ppg and 42% FG in 2008.
   With the exception of SAF (Scallabrine Awesomeness Factor) our bench is better in every way and every position than it was in 2008.