Dan Shaughnessy article on the "trade"

[the_Bird]

"Just getting his feet wet"?  He's been in the league four years (and played a lot of minutes his first four seasons).  Played three years at Georgetown, if I'm not mistaken.  The kid can and should still get better, but to imply that he's some near-rookie just isn't accurate.  I don't see how he suddenly morphs into a perennial All-Star. 

He's good enough to start, but not good enough to build around and I don't think good enough to kill your 2012 cap space for (which makes all the contract-based talk around the trade irrelevant).  He seems to have the tools, though, where he ought to be better.  Not what you'd expect out of a #5 pick (although still better than Yi...  )

[bbd24]

"Just getting his feet wet"?  He's been in the league four years (and played a lot of minutes his first four seasons).  Played three years at Georgetown, if I'm not mistaken.  The kid can and should still get better, but to imply that he's some near-rookie just isn't accurate.  I don't see how he suddenly morphs into a perennial All-Star. 

He's good enough to start, but not good enough to build around and I don't think good enough to kill your 2012 cap space for (which makes all the contract-based talk around the trade irrelevant).  He seems to have the tools, though, where he ought to be better.  Not what you'd expect out of a #5 pick (although still better than Yi...  )

Yes, just getting his feet wet.  He's 24 for yiggity yiggity sakes, not 34.

You can crucify him all you want now, but I'd wait until he gets at least one training camp done with his current team before you do so.  Or maybe to 27 yrs of age, or something. I wouldn't base it off 1 month in a new system on a new team.  Thats a huge mistake.

[gpap]

What gets me is that as good of a center as Perk is, he is NOT a player that makes or breaks a team.

Also, I read alot about how that trade "disrupted chemistry."

My response - KG, Pierce, Ray and Rondo get paid millions of dollars to perform a task and a job they've been doing for years!

If they're so easily traumatized by the trade of a teammate that it affects their play, then they're in the wrong line of work.

[Ersatz]

What gets me is that as good of a center as Perk is, he is NOT a player that makes or breaks a team.

I think that depends. He doesn't/didn't make or break the Celtics, but, based on an admittedly small sample, he seems to be making the Thunder, giving them an interior presence and infecting the rest of the team with an assertiveness that's made them contender. At least that's what I see after a dozen or so games.

[thebat]

I totally agree and support what Dan Shaughnessy said.
There was a special brotherhood, bond between Perk, Rondo and the big3. Their solid chemistry, that was being adorned and respected and idolized by everybody in the league - GONE all of a sudden!  It was broken by this Perk trade. And this team will never be the same again.

If some of you here think that Shaq will be the factor or even help the team in the playoffs is just a hallucination, wishful thinking and just pure pathetic (you should all listen to yourselves when you say SHAQ for pete's sake!).

Open your eyes guys. Just look at the before and after Perk trade. You will feel and know that this team is on it's downfall unfortunately, and it's the end of the Big3 era.
 

[CelticG1]

What gets me is that as good of a center as Perk is, he is NOT a player that makes or breaks a team.

Also, I read alot about how that trade "disrupted chemistry."

My response - KG, Pierce, Ray and Rondo get paid millions of dollars to perform a task and a job they've been doing for years!

If they're so easily traumatized by the trade of a teammate that it affects their play, then they're in the wrong line of work.

Yeah I agree with this. If this has affected them that much than they have to be the weakest team mentally in the league. Add in the fact that these guys (aside from Pierce) just met Perk 3 or 4 years ago and it just sounds even more ridiculous. I'd be more disappointed with the guys on our team if this trade affected them emotionally than I would be with Danny for making the trade.

[LB3533]

People act like the Perk trade was a big boom for the Thunder, when actually it was the increase in production by Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka that has caused the Thunder to win at a near 10% higher clip. (64% to 73% after the trade deadline).

If we saw the same jump in production in 3 of our Celts, it wouldn't have mattered what we got out of Green/Kristic.

[the_Bird]

Well, there's addition-by-subtraction at work as well.  Harden and Ibaka are getting more playing time because Jeff Green's not there, and they're having a lot more success in part as a result.

What's that tell you about Jeff Green?

[Spilling Green Dye]

I totally agree and support what Dan Shaughnessy said.
There was a special brotherhood, bond between Perk, Rondo and the big3. Their solid chemistry, that was being adorned and respected and idolized by everybody in the league - GONE all of a sudden!  It was broken by this Perk trade. And this team will never be the same again.

If some of you here think that Shaq will be the factor or even help the team in the playoffs is just a hallucination, wishful thinking and just pure pathetic (you should all listen to yourselves when you say SHAQ for pete's sake!).

Open your eyes guys. Just look at the before and after Perk trade. You will feel and know that this team is on it's downfall unfortunately, and it's the end of the Big3 era.
 

Well since you've managed to insult those who disagree with you, I'd like to ask you a few questions:

1)  Perkins was on the team, and healthy, the 2nd half of last season.  Why didn't that "special brotherhood" prevent the team from going .500 for that entire half??

2)  How did this "special brotherhood" benefit the Celtics the 1st half of this season when Perkins wasn't even on the court??

3)  How is it that with Shaq starting at center the Celtics were the 2nd best 5-man unit in the entire league??  

4)  What recent history can you show me that Shaq does not play, or is not healthy, in the playoffs??  He consistently sits our regular season games, but always shows up for the playoffs.  

I personally find it "pathetic" that you've given up on this team already.  You've jumped off the team wagon before 1 game of the playoffs have started, so I think you might as well relegate yourself to posting only in offseason and/or 2011-2012 threads.  

[wiley]

Well, there's addition-by-subtraction at work as well.  Harden and Ibaka are getting more playing time because Jeff Green's not there, and they're having a lot more success in part as a result.

What's that tell you about Jeff Green?

It tells us that Ibaka and Harden are worthy players, which everyone already knew, but I think it tells us nothing about JG.   Addition by subtraction is a fuzzy argument in the NBA when looking at a single player.  Dallas was better their first year without Nash.....Denver better without Carmelo, etc etc....it happens all the time that teams are better for this or that reason after the loss of major players, not just ones who've yet to be all-stars and are playing out of position.

[Who]

Well, there's addition-by-subtraction at work as well.  Harden and Ibaka are getting more playing time because Jeff Green's not there, and they're having a lot more success in part as a result.

What's that tell you about Jeff Green?

It tells us that Ibaka and Harden are worthy players, which everyone already knew, but I think it tells us nothing about JG.   Addition by subtraction is a fuzzy argument in the NBA when looking at a single player.  Dallas was better their first year without Nash.....Denver better without Carmelo, etc etc....it happens all the time that teams are better for this or that reason after the loss of major players, not just ones who've yet to be all-stars and are playing out of position.

Agreed

[bbd24]

What gets me is that as good of a center as Perk is, he is NOT a player that makes or breaks a team.

Also, I read alot about how that trade "disrupted chemistry."

My response - KG, Pierce, Ray and Rondo get paid millions of dollars to perform a task and a job they've been doing for years!

If they're so easily traumatized by the trade of a teammate that it affects their play, then they're in the wrong line of work.

What do you mean ?  Are you saying Perk wasn't a 20/20 guy in the 20 minutes he averaged per game.

Come on, those were a valuable 20 minutes he played during his career here.  Forget KG in the middle, it was all about King Perk.  Thats a championship guaranteed with him down low.

Forget that you went 33-8 at home without Perkins, had 56 wins, and did it during an injury filled season with the likes of Shaq, JO, and Delonte on the bench.  Also held opponents to a league best, 91 ppg.

Come on, get the Perk chants going, " MVP .... MVP..... MVP " !

[Roy H.]

I'm not sure if the constant sarcasm and mocking of others' viewpoints is really conducive to the environment of respect that we enforce around here.  It people can't debate respectfully, it's time to move on.

[No Nickname]

1.  Perk was not 100% healthy.  And during crunch time he was always sitting, with Big Baby playing the five.  We didn't lose a healthy, crunch-time center here.  We lost an ACL-injury recovering center who could play 25 minutes in quarters 1-3 and maybe a few to start the 4th.  Those look like Shaq and Jermaine numbers to me.

2. Look at this from the perspective of the trade to get Ray Allen a few years ago.  The Celtics basically gave up Kendrick Perkins (a late 20s draft pick) to get:
      A.  four good years of Ray Allen
      B.  We got back our own #5 pick (Jeff Allen) after 3.5 years of seasoning on a team where he could play tons of minutes every night.  That would not have happened with the Celts.
     C.  Big Baby (Seattle gave us their 2nd-round pick in the Ray Allen deal)
     D.  We got Delonte West back (via a free agency pickup after three years away).  We basically rented Delonte for those years.
     E.  A #1 draft pick which could be in the low teens.  Danny Granger was taken around this range.  LOTS of good players were in fact.

To sum it up, we gave up a struggling Wally Z, Kendrick Kendrick Perkins, Nate Robinson (a guy we got for nothing) and Semih Erden (a late 2nd rounder) for:

Ray Allen (four All Star seasons), Big Baby, Nenad Krstic, and a #1 draft pick.  And now have Jeff Allen and Delonte West back.

Wow!  That's all we gave up???  

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!  Ainge is a freaking thief.  Did he hurt our chances to win it all this year?  Maybe.  We really needed Perk against LA.  But we really need Jeff Allen against Miami and Chicago.  Without Jeff, we may not get to the Finals. Pierce can't guard LeBron and Luol Deng all by himself.  We had NO OTHER small forward on this team.  Just shooting guards and power forwards.

Wait until that #1 pick is used and we see how the team does in this year's playoffs before we decide on this trade.

[Chris]

Well, there's addition-by-subtraction at work as well.  Harden and Ibaka are getting more playing time because Jeff Green's not there, and they're having a lot more success in part as a result.

What's that tell you about Jeff Green?

It tells us that Ibaka and Harden are worthy players, which everyone already knew, but I think it tells us nothing about JG.   Addition by subtraction is a fuzzy argument in the NBA when looking at a single player.  Dallas was better their first year without Nash.....Denver better without Carmelo, etc etc....it happens all the time that teams are better for this or that reason after the loss of major players, not just ones who've yet to be all-stars and are playing out of position.

Well, I think it is addition from subtraction by removing Jeff Green the PF, and replacing him with Ibaka the PF, or Jeff Green the SG, and replacing him with Harden the SG. 

It doesn't really say anything about Jeff Green the overall player, since he was almost always playing out of position in OKC, and as part of that, he was blocking two very good players who were better at playing their natural position than he was at his unnatural position.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying Green is going to be a great SF.  But, I just don't think the fact that he was a terrible PF means he is a terrible player.