Doc outcoached

[Fafnir]

Doc should not be bashed

Sure he should.  He's not a great tactician.  He doesn't seem to be the motivator he and the team claims he is --> the lackluster play the past couple years would be proof of that.  He may be good at handling player egos but the way team is lacking ubuntu this year would seem to show he's losing that touch as well.

The only time I consider him to have not been outcoached was the finals against Phil in 2008 where he did an admittedly great job against the Lakers.  Other than that, I find his coaching skills overrated.

I'm sure I'll be crucified for that opinion but it's how I've always felt about Doc.

Honestly I think thats a very shallow analysis.

You basically rate him as good when we win a title, and over rated otherwise. Not very interesting or deep thoughts.

I think Doc did an excellent job in the playoffs the last two years. I was actually less impressed during our title run, he kept switching up rotations in an attempt to find the "hot hand" (Eddie/Cassell/Leon/BBD) for my liking.

[apc]

What bothered me was ray playing 38 minutes! If he is not scoring, sit him down, that’s all we need him to do is score.
We don’t need him on the court for his unique set of defensive skills to stop Keith Bogans.
Give Wafer a chance, he can get hot really fast, he can also drive to the basket effectively, and he is good enough to defend Bogans.
I am not saying he is better than Ray, but when ray is not playing good, some of those 38 minutes could go to wafer.

[GreenEnvy]

I trust Doc. And he trusts the team.

I think they know how hard it was with the targets on their back in 2008, and kind of embrace the underdog role.

I'll take the wait-and-see approach. Doc and the Big Three get the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Rondo I am not as confident in. He is the one with something to prove in these playoffs.

[ejk3489]

I trust Doc. And he trusts the team.

I think they know how hard it was with the targets on their back in 2008, and kind of embrace the underdog role.

I'll take the wait-and-see approach. Doc and the Big Three get the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Rondo I am not as confident in. He is the one with something to prove in these playoffs.

You don't think Rondo deserves the benefit of the doubt after the way he's played in the post season for the past two years?

He's the one I'm not worried about at all. (the Big 3 too)

[Tai]

What bothered me was ray playing 38 minutes! If he is not scoring, sit him down, that’s all we need him to do is score.
We don’t need him on the court for his unique set of defensive skills to stop Keith Bogans.
Give Wafer a chance, he can get hot really fast, he can also drive to the basket effectively, and he is good enough to defend Bogans.
I am not saying he is better than Ray, but when ray is not playing good, some of those 38 minutes could go to wafer.

Yeah, that's bothering me, at this point. As Wafer really not been able to get it back up again since recovering from his injury? He needs to give Ray a breather, and I know he has the talent to.

[Prof. Clutch]

I saw Rivers passionately pleading with his team to play tougher last night.  Right after they did a sideline interview with Doc and he mentioned that they weren't contesting or playing hard enough the Bulls came out and Korver hit an uncontested 3.  Rivers called a time out and I watched as the camera remained on Doc and he just stared in disbelief at all the members of his team.  His eyes conveyed how disappointed he was and the camera finally broke away just as he yelled "GUYS!" and launched into whatever tirade he was going to lay on them.  The players came out and went on a run and erased the deficit (temporarily) soon after that.  I don't think Doc got out coached, I think the players didn't show up last night.

Just my opinion, but Doc seemed to be one of the only ones who was "all in" last night.

[ballin]

This is the worst thread ever. You really think that thrashing was due to Doc's coaching? Come on, be serious.

Fundamental attribution error at its finest.

[alley oop]

Just my opinion, but Doc seemed to be one of the only ones who was "all in" last night.

Doc said in his post game interview that Thibs prepared his team better than he prepared his team.

http://youtu.be/v_SNKYL7G4I

[Bankshot]

He got outcoached by Phil Jackson in game 7 last year too.

[More Banners]

The main thing that was needed from a coach in 08 was getting the guys to buy into a team thing and trust each other.  Perfecto.

I don't think any of our guys can dominate a game at will any more, so X/O coaching is getting more important.  But I'm not sure the guys are as able to execute as they were three years ago.  That's not on the coach.

[Prof. Clutch]

Just my opinion, but Doc seemed to be one of the only ones who was "all in" last night.

Doc said in his post game interview that Thibs prepared his team better than he prepared his team.

http://youtu.be/v_SNKYL7G4I

I understand why you're posting that, TP. 

Still, whether or not the Bulls were better prepared has nothing to do with whether or not Doc was passionate about winning the game.   In the end, the Bulls played better because Thibs got his guys to play hard.  Despite Doc's best efforts to get the team to play like the game mattered, the players were the ones who fell short of that intensity last night.  That's not on Doc.

[BringToughnessBack]

In the end, the game did not matter and it is hard to say Doc was outcoached. When you have 1 team who is looking to make a statement at home vs another team that is thinking about the Playoffs while accepting their fate as 2 or 3 seed, it is hard to say one was outcoached over the other. 5 games left with 3 games out for first seed. The players know they are not getting that home court. Whether we play the Knicks or 76ers wont matter to them either. We will win that series and be ready to knock off the pretenders down in South Beach. By the time we make it back to Chicago(or Orlando), we will more then properly be motivated to display our Series Winning Celtics Pride.

[LB3533]

Our team offense has gone down the last 2 seasons.

Yes, and it will continue to as our Big Three are getting more and more past their primes.

I actually think it has more to do with last season's shift to Rondo being the team's offensive ignition rather than the Big 3 back in 07-08.

PP/RA both have been very steady and efficient the last 4 years.

Only KG's numbers have dropped significantly through the last 3 seasons...mainly due to injury and recovering from that injury.

But the offensive philosophy of giving the offensive keys to Rondo starting last year has probably hurt us more than helped us.

[slamtheking]

Doc should not be bashed

Sure he should.  He's not a great tactician.  He doesn't seem to be the motivator he and the team claims he is --> the lackluster play the past couple years would be proof of that.  He may be good at handling player egos but the way team is lacking ubuntu this year would seem to show he's losing that touch as well.

The only time I consider him to have not been outcoached was the finals against Phil in 2008 where he did an admittedly great job against the Lakers.  Other than that, I find his coaching skills overrated.

I'm sure I'll be crucified for that opinion but it's how I've always felt about Doc.

Honestly I think thats a very shallow analysis.

You basically rate him as good when we win a title, and over rated otherwise. Not very interesting or deep thoughts.

sounds pretty condescending and personal coming from a moderator.   

I'm evaluating his body of work.  I think he's an overrated coach, plain and simple.  Winning or losing doesn't impact that.
I gave him credit for doing a better-than-expected job against Phil in the finals that year.  It hasn't changed my overall opinion of him. 

[Dunn]

Doc didn't get outcoached by Phil last year in the Finals. Phil had health this time around while Doc inserted Baby to his starting 4 to horrible results. This season he decided to force that same stupid rotation and most fans here think it led to this team great start. Doc isn't stupid enough to start Baby, but hide him with a good size lead and then let him finish games. He is out coaching himself with that rotation, by now he should have gotten a clue. Jeff Green is being greatly underused. He needs to be the first player off the bench for either a ineffective Ray or for either JO or KG. As long as Doc realizes who should run fastbreaks with Rondo. Even Wafer should be given a shot to run, there's plenty of time to run a half court offense, but you don't disregard player's game and mix them to awful results. He's gotta be smarter than that. Doc isn't a great coach, which is why I always wanted a former Celtic like Cowens, but Doc can attract talent and as long as he uses them right we all win.