How/when should people judge trades?

[greenpride32]

You can't judge the trade based on our peformance in the playoffs.  If the trade wasn't made there is no guarantee we would have won the title, made the finals, progressed to the 2nd round, or even won the first series.  So using this as a benchmark flat out doesn't make any sense.

That makes no sense to me.  This team was in the Finals last season and had the best seed in the Conference when the trades were made.  It was pretty clear we were headed baack

By your logic the Lakers should win the title this year.  Then using that same logic they will win in again next year.

Making the finals for this team was not given pre or post trade.  That's quite an assumption.

[Fafnir]

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

But here's the thing, when you look at our decline in offense, it has come mostly in the 4th quarter. During the slump our 4th quarter offense has been almost 5 points worse.

Perk rarely played in the 4th quarter, so I don't think he is the reason for the decline.

Perkins played plenty in the fourth quarter this year, he usually hasn't played in the last few minutes of the game. But he typically was playing between 4-6 minutes in the fourth depending on the game.

Also I'd be curious to what's our fourth quarter offensive rating is. In a close game the C's usually turn the 4th quarter into a grind.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Perkins trade can be judged now.  No need to wait.  It was only Perkins you traded away, not one of the core 4.

Easy win win situation for the Celtics in this trade.  Ainge opened up the options when Shaq and JO came into the fold via free agency.  When you add 2 vets like this to the core 4, you don't miss a role player like Perkins.  In fact, your arguably better with those two then with King Perk.  You can make easy trades like this when you've built a team that leads with RR, Ray, PP, and KG.

Add in the fact that you get to upgrade your bench with a Green and Krstic, and you've hit a home run.

The grand slam comes when Ainge hits on the 1st round Clipper pick.

Helluva trade by DA

How is it a win-win when we went from winning to losing?

We've missed him (and Shaq) dearly

Nothing I've seen has led me to believe that the trade was the culprit for our losing. In fact, I could easily argue that due to the trade we've actually won more games that we would have otherwise.

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

You just can't look at it that way because we've struggled like this with Perkins on the floor quite often. It ignores injuries to O'neal (who was the player who actually played the most of the season). It ignores Rondo playing like crap for quite a stretch. It ignores that we have a bench full of new players. It ignores that until recently, Krstic was giving us a lot offensively including offensive rebounding. It ignores, that KG went through one of the coldest stretches I've seen of him (missing a ton of open jumpers). It ignores that Big Baby got hurt. It ignores that West was hurt until recently.

Etc., etc., etc.

[bbd24]

The Perkins trade can be judged now.  No need to wait.  It was only Perkins you traded away, not one of the core 4.

Easy win win situation for the Celtics in this trade.  Ainge opened up the options when Shaq and JO came into the fold via free agency.  When you add 2 vets like this to the core 4, you don't miss a role player like Perkins.  In fact, your arguably better with those two then with King Perk.  You can make easy trades like this when you've built a team that leads with RR, Ray, PP, and KG.

Add in the fact that you get to upgrade your bench with a Green and Krstic, and you've hit a home run.

The grand slam comes when Ainge hits on the 1st round Clipper pick.

Helluva trade by DA

How is it a win-win when we went from winning to losing?

We've missed him (and Shaq) dearly

Because you proved you could win without Perkins when he was sidelined with the injury.

The entire team has been beat up all season.  One player gets back, another goes down, etc.  Thats why you've gone from winning to losing.  Injuries and the core 4 playing like garbage. Remember, when the core 4 were on, and you were somewhat healthy, you were already winning without Perkins.

You've missed Shaq, JO, and Delonte big time this year, yet still managed 50+ wins.  Not to shabby.  All 3 of those players get playoff minutes for this team, and are tough to replace whenever they go out.

[Fafnir]

The Perkins trade can be judged now.  No need to wait.  It was only Perkins you traded away, not one of the core 4.

Easy win win situation for the Celtics in this trade.  Ainge opened up the options when Shaq and JO came into the fold via free agency.  When you add 2 vets like this to the core 4, you don't miss a role player like Perkins.  In fact, your arguably better with those two then with King Perk.  You can make easy trades like this when you've built a team that leads with RR, Ray, PP, and KG.

Add in the fact that you get to upgrade your bench with a Green and Krstic, and you've hit a home run.

The grand slam comes when Ainge hits on the 1st round Clipper pick.

Helluva trade by DA

How is it a win-win when we went from winning to losing?

We've missed him (and Shaq) dearly

Nothing I've seen has led me to believe that the trade was the culprit for our losing. In fact, I could easily argue that due to the trade we've actually won more games that we would have otherwise.

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

You just can't look at it that way because we've struggled like this with Perkins on the floor quite often. It ignores injuries to O'neal (who was the player who actually played the most of the season). It ignores Rondo playing like crap for quite a stretch. It ignores that we have a bench full of new players. It ignores that until recently, Krstic was giving us a lot offensively including offensive rebounding. It ignores, that KG went through one of the coldest stretches I've seen of him (missing a ton of open jumpers). It ignores that Big Baby got hurt. It ignores that West was hurt until recently.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know that there are a lot of confounding variables. Its just that interaction effects aside I do wonder if having a big like Perkins that everyone knows how to move with on offense is underrated.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Perkins trade can be judged now.  No need to wait.  It was only Perkins you traded away, not one of the core 4.

Easy win win situation for the Celtics in this trade.  Ainge opened up the options when Shaq and JO came into the fold via free agency.  When you add 2 vets like this to the core 4, you don't miss a role player like Perkins.  In fact, your arguably better with those two then with King Perk.  You can make easy trades like this when you've built a team that leads with RR, Ray, PP, and KG.

Add in the fact that you get to upgrade your bench with a Green and Krstic, and you've hit a home run.

The grand slam comes when Ainge hits on the 1st round Clipper pick.

Helluva trade by DA

How is it a win-win when we went from winning to losing?

We've missed him (and Shaq) dearly

Nothing I've seen has led me to believe that the trade was the culprit for our losing. In fact, I could easily argue that due to the trade we've actually won more games that we would have otherwise.

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

You just can't look at it that way because we've struggled like this with Perkins on the floor quite often. It ignores injuries to O'neal (who was the player who actually played the most of the season). It ignores Rondo playing like crap for quite a stretch. It ignores that we have a bench full of new players. It ignores that until recently, Krstic was giving us a lot offensively including offensive rebounding. It ignores, that KG went through one of the coldest stretches I've seen of him (missing a ton of open jumpers). It ignores that Big Baby got hurt. It ignores that West was hurt until recently.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know that there are a lot of confounding variables. Its just that interaction effects aside I do wonder if having a big like Perkins that everyone knows how to move with on offense is underrated.

To some degree, but that just means that it takes a bit of time for people to get used to each other. I don't think that's what was happening here though. And again, we've often had a lot of offensive struggles even with Perkins on the floor, particularly during these months, so I wouldn't look too much into it.

Now our teams has been getting relatively healthy, Rondo is finally playing with a lot more confidence and energy, and the offense has looked a lot better (unless we're being careless and turning the ball over). And our defense looks pretty good.

[bbd24]

The Perkins trade can be judged now.  No need to wait.  It was only Perkins you traded away, not one of the core 4.

Easy win win situation for the Celtics in this trade.  Ainge opened up the options when Shaq and JO came into the fold via free agency.  When you add 2 vets like this to the core 4, you don't miss a role player like Perkins.  In fact, your arguably better with those two then with King Perk.  You can make easy trades like this when you've built a team that leads with RR, Ray, PP, and KG.

Add in the fact that you get to upgrade your bench with a Green and Krstic, and you've hit a home run.

The grand slam comes when Ainge hits on the 1st round Clipper pick.

Helluva trade by DA

How is it a win-win when we went from winning to losing?

We've missed him (and Shaq) dearly

Nothing I've seen has led me to believe that the trade was the culprit for our losing. In fact, I could easily argue that due to the trade we've actually won more games that we would have otherwise.

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

You just can't look at it that way because we've struggled like this with Perkins on the floor quite often. It ignores injuries to O'neal (who was the player who actually played the most of the season). It ignores Rondo playing like crap for quite a stretch. It ignores that we have a bench full of new players. It ignores that until recently, Krstic was giving us a lot offensively including offensive rebounding. It ignores, that KG went through one of the coldest stretches I've seen of him (missing a ton of open jumpers). It ignores that Big Baby got hurt. It ignores that West was hurt until recently.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know that there are a lot of confounding variables. Its just that interaction effects aside I do wonder if having a big like Perkins that everyone knows how to move with on offense is underrated.

To some degree, but that just means that it takes a bit of time for people to get used to each other. I don't think that's what was happening here though. And again, we've often had a lot of offensive struggles even with Perkins on the floor, particularly during these months, so I wouldn't look too much into it.

Now our teams has been getting relatively healthy, Rondo is finally playing with a lot more confidence and energy, and the offense has looked a lot better (unless we're being careless and turning the ball over). And our defense looks pretty good.

Everyone talks about that 'switch' ......I think Rondo is the epitomy of 'switch'.  Right now, he has it turned on.  A little before and right after the Perk trade for a 10-15 game stretch, he had it turned off.  He's hurt us quite a bit during that time, as well as the other core 4's play + BBD during the 4th quarter of games.

[dlpin]

Perkins played plenty in the fourth quarter this year, he usually hasn't played in the last few minutes of the game. But he typically was playing between 4-6 minutes in the fourth depending on the game.

Also I'd be curious to what's our fourth quarter offensive rating is. In a close game the C's usually turn the 4th quarter into a grind.

The last time 82games sorted player statistics per quarter, Perkins didn't even log enough minutes to qualify for 4th quarter stats. Granted, it was before this season and this season's data is not available, so it might have changed.

But 82games does have offense and defense stats for Perkins on the floor this season, and the celtics scored 2.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with Perkins on the floor.

[BballTim]

I do wonder if this trade reveals that Perkins impact on offense has been under rated.

Overall we've had the best defense in the league this year, its our offense that has completely faltered lately.

But here's the thing, when you look at our decline in offense, it has come mostly in the 4th quarter. During the slump our 4th quarter offense has been almost 5 points worse.

Perk rarely played in the 4th quarter, so I don't think he is the reason for the decline.

Perkins played plenty in the fourth quarter this year, he usually hasn't played in the last few minutes of the game. But he typically was playing between 4-6 minutes in the fourth depending on the game.

Also I'd be curious to what's our fourth quarter offensive rating is. In a close game the C's usually turn the 4th quarter into a grind.

  I'd say that they do better in close games than they do in games with leads when they seem to be more interested in milking the clock than getting a good shot.

[Marcus13]

You can't judge the trade based on our peformance in the playoffs.  If the trade wasn't made there is no guarantee we would have won the title, made the finals, progressed to the 2nd round, or even won the first series.  So using this as a benchmark flat out doesn't make any sense.

That makes no sense to me.  This team was in the Finals last season and had the best seed in the Conference when the trades were made.  It was pretty clear we were headed baack

By your logic the Lakers should win the title this year.  Then using that same logic they will win in again next year.

Making the finals for this team was not given pre or post trade.  That's quite an assumption.

They should win the title.  Nothing short of that is going to be a successful season for them