With the benefit of hindsight, do you think Danny regrets the Perk trade?

[Kane3387]

The only way Perk helps with offense in a major way is setting screens. When his picks weren't moving they were crushing and set up Ray for good looks.

[BballTim]

Could some of it be a concern about the center rotation going into the playoffs?  As much as I'd like to, I just can't find many positives in Shaq's recovery from injury.

Is a center rotation with Perkins that much better than a center rotation with Kristic when we consider our likely match ups that it would be worth going into the playoffs with Pavlovic as our wing back up?

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

  Just out of curiosity, if Perk has another injury does the balance shift the other way?

[Roy H.]

Could some of it be a concern about the center rotation going into the playoffs?  As much as I'd like to, I just can't find many positives in Shaq's recovery from injury.

Is a center rotation with Perkins that much better than a center rotation with Kristic when we consider our likely match ups that it would be worth going into the playoffs with Pavlovic as our wing back up?

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

  Just out of curiosity, if Perk has another injury does the balance shift the other way?

If it's a serious one that jeopardizes his availability for the playoffs, absolutely.  In that case, from a hindsight perspective, we would have acquired Green and a #1 for a player unlikely to have helped us.

[jasail]

Could some of it be a concern about the center rotation going into the playoffs?  As much as I'd like to, I just can't find many positives in Shaq's recovery from injury.

Is a center rotation with Perkins that much better than a center rotation with Kristic when we consider our likely match ups that it would be worth going into the playoffs with Pavlovic as our wing back up?

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

Let's be fair, there were also reports about the Cavs wanting to keep him.  As he didn't get traded and he could have been a valuable piece to another contender, it tends to tell me his price was not worth his production.  Also Parker is more of a 2/3 and the C's seemed to be more interested in obtaining a 3/4 so they wouldn't have to rely on Davis and his poor shot selection at the end of games.

The only way Perk helps with offense in a major way is setting screens. When his picks weren't moving they were crushing and set up Ray for good looks.

I don't disagree with that, but similarly if the O'Neals are healthy we have plenty of big men that can set solid picks.  It's just Kristic that can't and honestly I'd rather see an out of shape Troy Murphy out there because Curly does nothing to inspire faith.

[Tai]

Could some of it be a concern about the center rotation going into the playoffs?  As much as I'd like to, I just can't find many positives in Shaq's recovery from injury.

Is a center rotation with Perkins that much better than a center rotation with Kristic when we consider our likely match ups that it would be worth going into the playoffs with Pavlovic as our wing back up?

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

If we ultimately traded Erden, and supposedly we only needed to trade Erden to get Parker, I dunno if that was all that was being asked of Danny to give up. I think it also says a lot that Doc had to basically force Danny to NOT do another trade that also involved Perkins, only to trade him anyways. It appeared that any meaningful trade we would want to do involved giving away Perkins. So, what SF out of free agency do we sign that's better than Pavlovic?

[indeedproceed]

There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

I don't think this is as cut and dry as one might think.

Yes there were reports that we might be able to get Parker, but there were also reports that they were not accepting Nate Robinson + a number 1 for him.

The Bulls were alledgely after him too, but settled eventually on Rasual Butler because either A) they thought Butler was the better option or B) because the Cavs weren't buying what the Bulls were selling.

Also, there were reports that Semih Erden was the key for Cleveland, but we sent Semih there in a salary dump to clear a roster space. If Erden would've cut the deal, why didn't we send him along with the trade exception we got from the Quis deal? (Quis trade was announced minutes after Semih/Luke's, so I'm assuming Danny knew it all these moves were going to happen in advance)

I think if we could've gotten Parker, even to take Sasha's role, we would've pulled that trigger regardless.

[dlpin]

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

How is it a strawman if it is the only concrete option we can discuss? Strawman is using as the alternative some scenario where we could find an alternative on the cheap.

On offense, Kristic is clearly better than Perkins. On defense, he is clearly much worse. But unless Joel Anthony or Noah suddenly start burning the celtics for 20+ points, I don't think the difference will be all that great (and no, nothing we've seen so far has indicated that the seeding would have been different with Perkins around).


Don't get me wrong, it's not that I am ecstatic about the trade. But at the end of the day, we are talking about trades of role players.

[BballTim]

I'm getting curious.  

Last Januaryish I suggested the Pats should shop Brady.  That turned into a whole "eja suggested we trade Brady for Sanchez" thing.

Let's say the Pats do that next year. Say they're playing very well, maybe Brady is a bit banged up and they trade Brady for a good young QB and a good young player at a position of need. Then they start losing, and looking lost, but still one of the better teams destined for the playoffs. And in the mean time Brady plays pretty well and improves the team he goes to.

Are all of you going to stay positive and not criticize the trade?  Will you say "It's too early to know"?

Will you not be able to make threads suggesting in hindsight maybe it wasn't so good?

Exact.....same....thing



Of course now I'm saying Perk is as good as Brady.   No I'm not.

probably not the best analogy.

All I did was change the names and sports

  If you wanted to make it accurate, it would read more like Brady missed the first half of the season and the Pats were the best team in the league. He came back for 1 game and re-injured himself and then the Pats traded him.

[More Banners]

Could some of it be a concern about the center rotation going into the playoffs?  As much as I'd like to, I just can't find many positives in Shaq's recovery from injury.

Is a center rotation with Perkins that much better than a center rotation with Kristic when we consider our likely match ups that it would be worth going into the playoffs with Pavlovic as our wing back up?

I think this is a bit of a straw man, because if we hadn't traded for Green, we would have gotten a better wing than Pavlovic.  There are reports that we could have had Anthony Parker, and I think he would have made a fine backup.

And yes, I think the difference between Perk and Krstic is significant.  That being the case, with Shaq's injury issues I'm very worried about our ability to adequately control the paint in the playoffs.

  Just out of curiosity, if Perk has another injury does the balance shift the other way?

If it's a serious one that jeopardizes his availability for the playoffs, absolutely.  In that case, from a hindsight perspective, we would have acquired Green and a #1 for a player unlikely to have helped us.

This whole idea (retrospectives, generally) go off the beam pretty quickly, i.e. if Perk does happen to get injured, say steps on a foot and gets a high ankle sprain, out 3 weeks to start the playoffs, we could ask whether he would have stepped on someone's foot if he were playing in a different place/time/team, etc., which is just nutty.


Not to get too philosophical here, but humans, having an awareness of themselves, have to live with the knowledge of the precariousness of human life itself, uncertainty of the future, and all that.  There have been countless works on this topic, most quite boring and laborious to read, but interesting if read in summary.  Short version:  there is certainty and uncertainty, which parallel knowledge and belief.  We can't "know" things that are not certain, right?  But acknowledging uncertainty is quite uncomfortable, so round and round we go re-affirming beliefs, or digging in to defend beliefs rather than face uncertainty.

Folks, it's basketball, a sport for entertainment.  We don't know what's going to happen, and never did.  Nothing is certain, including whether our chances to win it all immproved or not with the trade (since winning, as we know, is not easy and requires a large number of variables to sync up at the right time, including health.  Remember the Rondo 3 in 08?  We don't win the title without a Rondo 3 in the playoffs.  Would you bet on that?  How about Pierce's miracle bounce on the free throw?).

None of us "know" as much as we usually let on around here.

[tenn_smoothie]

if Ainge doesn't regret the trade after tonite's re-injury to Shaq, along with the blatant decline in the team's play, then he is even dumber and more arrogant than even i thought .......... then again, you can probably count on this week's WEEI radio appearance to be full of his usual smoke blowing double-talk.

[Tai]

if Ainge doesn't regret the trade after tonite's re-injury to Shaq, along with the blatant decline in the team's play, then he is even dumber and more arrogant than even i thought .......... then again, you can probably count on this week's WEEI radio appearance to be full of his usual smoke blowing double-talk.

Why does Ainge have to regret it now when Shaq's not even out for the season, and may still be able to play before the playoffs start?

[Chris]

I'm getting curious.  

Last Januaryish I suggested the Pats should shop Brady.  That turned into a whole "eja suggested we trade Brady for Sanchez" thing.

Let's say the Pats do that next year. Say they're playing very well, maybe Brady is a bit banged up and they trade Brady for a good young QB and a good young player at a position of need. Then they start losing, and looking lost, but still one of the better teams destined for the playoffs. And in the mean time Brady plays pretty well and improves the team he goes to.

Are all of you going to stay positive and not criticize the trade?  Will you say "It's too early to know"?

Will you not be able to make threads suggesting in hindsight maybe it wasn't so good?

Exact.....same....thing



Of course now I'm saying Perk is as good as Brady.   No I'm not.

probably not the best analogy.

All I did was change the names and sports

  If you wanted to make it accurate, it would read more like Brady missed the first half of the season and the Pats were the best team in the league. He came back for 1 game and re-injured himself and then the Pats traded him.

I think it would have been more like trading Logan Mankins right after he came back from his holdout last year, for a young WR and a second round pick.  

Taking away a guy whose biggest addition to the team is his toughness and leadership, but can probably replaced with a lesser player without hurting the team too much.  And bringing in some more skill to a position they were shallow at, and a future asset...but with no guarantee that the new WR will be integrated into the system quick enough.

[Tai]

Anyways, here's what Doc thought about the injury, for what it's worth:

http://twitter.com/#!/SherrodbCSN

SherrodbCSN A. Sherrod Blakely
#celtics d. Rivers says shaq calf strain similar to calf strain suffered by Von wafer, but not as severe.

So if nothing else, that's good news that Shaq will be back sooner than later.

[dtrader]

if Ainge doesn't regret the trade after tonite's re-injury to Shaq, along with the blatant decline in the team's play, then he is even dumber and more arrogant than even i thought .......... then again, you can probably count on this week's WEEI radio appearance to be full of his usual smoke blowing double-talk.

Why does Ainge have to regret it now when Shaq's not even out for the season, and may still be able to play before the playoffs start?

Seriously...All Shaqs game today proved, is that when he IS on the court, he's still a force.  If he played 12 minutes at the same level of productivity as the 5 he played, and was taken out without incident, Ainge would look great right now. 

He caught a tough break. If he got the same "injury" in the playoffs, I bet he'd go back in.  Granted I'm not 39 or 300 lbs., but I've strained my calf tons of times and played again that day.

[dlpin]

if Ainge doesn't regret the trade after tonite's re-injury to Shaq, along with the blatant decline in the team's play, then he is even dumber and more arrogant than even i thought .......... then again, you can probably count on this week's WEEI radio appearance to be full of his usual smoke blowing double-talk.

Again, how is the Perkins trade responsible for the decline in the team's play? Which games would Perkins have changed the outcome of?

Perkins wasn't going to rejuvenate Pierce and Allen and heal the injuries to Rondo, West and BBD.