Honestly, Every other NBA team sucks

[Donoghus]

Lol when's the last time Kobe hit a clutch shot deep in the playoffs/NBA Finals? .......**crickets**....

How many playoff games do you think will be decided by a "clutch play"?

Ray is a better 3 point shooter but Kobe is the better overall player.

Ray is the better overall player. If a player is not that clutch and you're not gonna count the final two minutes then he's not a very good player to begin with

The NBA is using Kobe's name to sell Jordan tickets, and its so annoying.
I don't know if you ever watched Ray on the Bucks or Sonics, but he was a totally different player on those teams. He had to change his game greatly to fit the Celtic system. That's unselfishness, something I can't say for Kobe

This is laughable and this is my last comment on it. Kobe is one of the top 10 players in the history of the league.

  Kobe is at best a fringe top 10 player.

And Ray is not.  To have an argument about overall basketball ability between Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant makes our fanbase look uneducated and completely biased.

EDIT:  I have vague recollections about some fans in the late 90s saying Reggie Miller was better than Michael Jordan.  Kind of a weirdly similar argument.

Seriously, you throw out cliches and act like its truth. And you never explain WHY Kobe is better. Don't hide behind common dogma and tell me why Kobe is better lol
I have been a Ray Allen fan WAY before he became a Celtic

Besides illustrating a subjective concept like "clutchness", can you illustrate why its apparently clear that Ray is a better "overall" player than Kobe Bryant?

[GreenFaith1819]

OsirusCeltics - I agree with pretty much everything you'e said.

I do think that the Kobe-Ray comparison is a stretch, but like BFM - I won't defend a Laker here on CelticsBlog.

And for as many kudos and claims to greatness that Kobe gets in the media, I wonder how he got his first 3 titles........I wonder if it had anything to do with someone on our team right now....

Kobe is truly a great player. But in any reference to his greatness should be made in the framework of a certain 7'1" 300+ pound center that he once played with....

[vinnie]

How many MVPs has Kobe won versus Ray? Was Shaq there when they won the title the last two years?

[OsirusCeltics]

Lol when's the last time Kobe hit a clutch shot deep in the playoffs/NBA Finals? .......**crickets**....

How many playoff games do you think will be decided by a "clutch play"?

Ray is a better 3 point shooter but Kobe is the better overall player.

Ray is the better overall player. If a player is not that clutch and you're not gonna count the final two minutes then he's not a very good player to begin with

The NBA is using Kobe's name to sell Jordan tickets, and its so annoying.
I don't know if you ever watched Ray on the Bucks or Sonics, but he was a totally different player on those teams. He had to change his game greatly to fit the Celtic system. That's unselfishness, something I can't say for Kobe

This is laughable and this is my last comment on it. Kobe is one of the top 10 players in the history of the league.

  Kobe is at best a fringe top 10 player.

And Ray is not.  To have an argument about overall basketball ability between Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant makes our fanbase look uneducated and completely biased.

EDIT:  I have vague recollections about some fans in the late 90s saying Reggie Miller was better than Michael Jordan.  Kind of a weirdly similar argument.

Seriously, you throw out cliches and act like its truth. And you never explain WHY Kobe is better. Don't hide behind common dogma and tell me why Kobe is better lol
I have been a Ray Allen fan WAY before he became a Celtic

Let's start with championships won and then go to just about every stat except for 3-point shooting percentage and my guess is Kobe would win in just about every category. He also has been a very good defensive player when he wants to be. I honestly don't know why I am even bothering arguing this because it is senseless.

No I think its senseless arguing with you. How dare you say Kobe is in the top 10? He is no where near in the top 20. I'm not talking about offensive talent, then David Thompson should be on this list. He is not a complete player, and not even clutch. Since when you throw that attribute out the window?

[Green Hell]

Ray, clutch?
Since when has Ray been "clutch"?

If I see it correctly, he cost us the Finals last year - what he'd go, 2-11 in Game 7 last year? Not to mention all those other games he took off in the spotlight. To talk about Ray being "clutch" is a joke. Ray has proven to be about as clutch as Vince Carter - just superb... until you really need him.

[OsirusCeltics]

How many MVPs has Kobe won versus Ray? Was Shaq there when they won the title the last two years?

Pau Gasol was there when he won those titles and was the best player on these teams

Kobe was in the NBA abyss missing the playoffs and not even leading his team past the first round after Shaq left. All of a sudden they trade Kwame Brown for Gasol and they start winning. Nice try though

[OsirusCeltics]

Ray, clutch?
Since when has Ray been "clutch"?

If I see it correctly, he cost us the Finals last year - what he'd go, 2-11 in Game 7 last year? Not to mention all those other games he took off in the spotlight. To talk about Ray being "clutch" is a joke. Ray has proven to be about as clutch as Vince Carter - just superb... until you really need him.

Like hitting constant game winners in the '09 Bulls-Celtics series. Like hitting 7 threes in the game 6 clincher in '08?
Name something that Kobe has done that was close to that

I dare you lol

[Green Hell]

Ray, clutch?
Since when has Ray been "clutch"?

If I see it correctly, he cost us the Finals last year - what he'd go, 2-11 in Game 7 last year? Not to mention all those other games he took off in the spotlight. To talk about Ray being "clutch" is a joke. Ray has proven to be about as clutch as Vince Carter - just superb... until you really need him.

Like hitting constant game winners in the '09 Bulls-Celtics series. Like hitting 7 threes in the game 6 clincher in '08?
Name something that Kobe has done that was close to that

I dare you lol

Lead his team to a Game 7 victory against the Boston Celtics.

[GreenFaith1819]

Ray, clutch?
Since when has Ray been "clutch"?

If I see it correctly, he cost us the Finals last year - what he'd go, 2-11 in Game 7 last year? Not to mention all those other games he took off in the spotlight. To talk about Ray being "clutch" is a joke. Ray has proven to be about as clutch as Vince Carter - just superb... until you really need him.

Wow - surely you jest. Like I stated earlier - Kobe is truly a great player, but I don't think he matches up with Ray Ray in the clutch department:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1KlPerGzBY

My Word - that one @ about 1:00 was nearly from halfcourt, and he hit all net.....

[vinnie]

They must keep the stats somewhere, but I am going to guess that Kobe Bryant has made well more clutch/game-winning shots than Ray Allen has made. Again, the overall argument is ridiculous. Kobe Bryant is by far a better all around player in just about every category than Ray Allen. Threads like this give me a headache.

[OsirusCeltics]

They must keep the stats somewhere, but I am going to guess that Kobe Bryant has made well more clutch/game-winning shots than Ray Allen has made. Again, the overall argument is ridiculous. Kobe Bryant is by far a better all around player in just about every category than Ray Allen. Threads like this give me a headache.

He has the lowest clutch percentage of ANY player who scored 20,000 points or more. Like seriously, he needs to thank ESPN and NBA TV for helping his career...

[vinnie]

This is a little dated, but Ray had hit one more than Kobe over a 5-year period into the 2008-2009 season. Kobe, however, had taken many more shots. Lebron was number one, and suprise, Vince Carter was number 2. So, Ray wins this one by one shot for the period of time that this sample measures.

Over the same period of time, Kobe is tied with Lebron for number 1 in the playoffs, both hitting 50 percent of their game winning tries.

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

[vinnie]

They must keep the stats somewhere, but I am going to guess that Kobe Bryant has made well more clutch/game-winning shots than Ray Allen has made. Again, the overall argument is ridiculous. Kobe Bryant is by far a better all around player in just about every category than Ray Allen. Threads like this give me a headache.

He has the lowest clutch percentage of ANY player who scored 20,000 points or more. Like seriously, he needs to thank ESPN and NBA TV for helping his career...

Okay, I'll bite. You are simply trolling, right? You really don't believe that Ray Allen is a better player than Kobe Bryant, right?

[OsirusCeltics]

Ray, clutch?
Since when has Ray been "clutch"?

If I see it correctly, he cost us the Finals last year - what he'd go, 2-11 in Game 7 last year? Not to mention all those other games he took off in the spotlight. To talk about Ray being "clutch" is a joke. Ray has proven to be about as clutch as Vince Carter - just superb... until you really need him.

Like hitting constant game winners in the '09 Bulls-Celtics series. Like hitting 7 threes in the game 6 clincher in '08?
Name something that Kobe has done that was close to that

I dare you lol

Lead his team to a Game 7 victory against the Boston Celtics.

Haha seriously?
He was 6/24 and almost shot out his own team from winning.
Who were the ones who had clutch shots in that 4th quarter comeback?

-Fisher who made the three to tie the game
-Gasol who can about 5 off rebounds in the 4th qtr alone
-Odom with clutch threes
-And to cap it off Artest hitting the three from the corner to seal it and then give a kiss to the crowd

See I'm not a Laker hater, but all the hype and praise is going to the wrong people

[OsirusCeltics]

They must keep the stats somewhere, but I am going to guess that Kobe Bryant has made well more clutch/game-winning shots than Ray Allen has made. Again, the overall argument is ridiculous. Kobe Bryant is by far a better all around player in just about every category than Ray Allen. Threads like this give me a headache.

He has the lowest clutch percentage of ANY player who scored 20,000 points or more. Like seriously, he needs to thank ESPN and NBA TV for helping his career...

Okay, I'll bite. You are simply trolling, right? You really don't believe that Ray Allen is a better player than Kobe Bryant, right?

I've given you facts and all you do is give out cliches and dogma. Are you sure you're not a troll?