Anyone else jealous of Rose's shooting?

[ejk3489]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

As far as all defense team...Bruce bowen won...then retired. CP3 won...then got hurt. Rondo deserved it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he improved if the players that used to win it, weren't competing for it any more.

As for the all star team...2008-J kidd and Chauncey were in in the east...then went west. 2009-AI, Mo williams, Devin Harris were in east..they went west. Add in injuries to Jameer nelson and CP3, and you can see that Rondos competition for the PG spot in the ASG was also thinned considerably.

Rondo wasn't an all star in 07/08 or 08/09, so what does that have to do with anything? Also Mo Williams didn't move out West until this year after the All-Star game...same with Harris. CP3 also plays out West, so that would have no effect on Rondo.

[BballTim]

Rose is a big fan of the off-balance, long two pointer. He takes a lot of low percentage shots (just like LeBron and Kobe!) that find their way in from time to time. He takes far too many shots to get to his average.

It's hilarious that people are griping about Rondo's lack of improvement. Did you not watch the playoffs last year? The guy is one of the best defenders in the league and can take over games without even having the ball in his hands.

I'm not jealous of Rose's shooting, not by a long shot. It's improved, but I don't think he'll be able to do what he does with the best defensive guard in the league smothering him in the playoffs.

I assume you're annointing Rondo as the "best defensive guard in the league."

Mere words aren't sufficient to express how thoroughly I disagree with that sentiment.

Get back to me when he plays in front of his man instead of behind him.

  I'll bite, who's the best point guard in the league?

  Bold prediction: it will be someone that lets opposing point guards shoot better, rebound better, get more assists and have fewer turnovers than Rondo does. But I'm curious nonetheless who you'll choose.

[BballTim]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
 

[dtrader]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

As far as all defense team...Bruce bowen won...then retired. CP3 won...then got hurt. Rondo deserved it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he improved if the players that used to win it, weren't competing for it any more.

As for the all star team...2008-J kidd and Chauncey were in in the east...then went west. 2009-AI, Mo williams, Devin Harris were in east..they went west. Add in injuries to Jameer nelson and CP3, and you can see that Rondos competition for the PG spot in the ASG was also thinned considerably.

Rondo wasn't an all star in 07/08 or 08/09, so what does that have to do with anything? Also Mo Williams didn't move out West until this year after the All-Star game...same with Harris. CP3 also plays out West, so that would have no effect on Rondo.

You should read an entire discussion if you're going to enter into it. 

The entire discussion revolves around WHY Rondo WASN'T an all star in his early years, and then made it now.  My point, was that the players that had previously been his primary competition at that spot, had either moved west, or were battling injuries when he made it...thus making it impossible to say that his inclusion on the team was a result of his own improvement. 

Although you're right about Mo williams still being in the east, he WAS injured.  And Devin Harris made the all star team in 2008 as a Net (ie Competing with Rondo).

The fact that CP3 plays out West has no impact on my argument, because I noted him in regards to Rondos inclusion on the all NBA defensive team, which isn't conference specific.  The same would apply to Bruce Bowen. The point is, that the two guards who had previously held the spot that Rondo took, were not able to compete for the spot when Rondo won it. 

As the saying goes, "you have to beat the best to be the best", and when Rondo was named the best, a lot of the "best" were out.

[dtrader]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
  

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

[BballTim]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
 

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

  Haha. I meant coaches, players, Ainge and the like, not the peanut gallery.

[JSD]

I'm not jelly of Rose yet. Lets see what they do in the playoffs first.

[zerophase]

I think Rose has gotten so much better because of the role he has played on his team. Being the leader, he's their go to guy every night where Rondo plays such a different role out there. Also, I think that you can't really compare the two so side by side. Rose was the #1 pick and is now becoming what people thought he would become. Rondo however, was the #21 pick and is now a much better player than anyone ever thought he could be. The initial projected potentials of both players were so different that you can't expect them to improve the same amount.

[ejk3489]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

As far as all defense team...Bruce bowen won...then retired. CP3 won...then got hurt. Rondo deserved it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he improved if the players that used to win it, weren't competing for it any more.

As for the all star team...2008-J kidd and Chauncey were in in the east...then went west. 2009-AI, Mo williams, Devin Harris were in east..they went west. Add in injuries to Jameer nelson and CP3, and you can see that Rondos competition for the PG spot in the ASG was also thinned considerably.

Rondo wasn't an all star in 07/08 or 08/09, so what does that have to do with anything? Also Mo Williams didn't move out West until this year after the All-Star game...same with Harris. CP3 also plays out West, so that would have no effect on Rondo.

You should read an entire discussion if you're going to enter into it. 

The entire discussion revolves around WHY Rondo WASN'T an all star in his early years, and then made it now.  My point, was that the players that had previously been his primary competition at that spot, had either moved west, or were battling injuries when he made it...thus making it impossible to say that his inclusion on the team was a result of his own improvement. 

Although you're right about Mo williams still being in the east, he WAS injured.  And Devin Harris made the all star team in 2008 as a Net (ie Competing with Rondo).

The fact that CP3 plays out West has no impact on my argument, because I noted him in regards to Rondos inclusion on the all NBA defensive team, which isn't conference specific.  The same would apply to Bruce Bowen. The point is, that the two guards who had previously held the spot that Rondo took, were not able to compete for the spot when Rondo won it. 

As the saying goes, "you have to beat the best to be the best", and when Rondo was named the best, a lot of the "best" were out.

My bad, I thought you we're saying he made the All-Star game because those guys were injured.

And you did say:

Add in injuries to Jameer nelson and CP3, and you can see that Rondos competition for the PG spot in the ASG was also thinned considerably.

...that's why I included CP3. And is Jameer really considered one of the best at his position? Maybe a few years ago he was.
 
I just think it's ridiculous to undermine Rondo's all-star game or all-defense team selections because a few other players were injured. He still deserved them.

[dtrader]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
  

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

  Haha. I meant coaches, players, Ainge and the like, not the peanut gallery.

So basically you're just talking about the people whose paychecks and/or work environment could be negatively effected by their public statements on the subject?  LOL. Doesn't seem like the population I'd look to if I wanted to hear honest opinions.

To ejk3489...Yes, I also said that Rondo deserved the spots.  I'm just pointing out that at his position (for both awards mentioned), the pool of players that normally competed for those spots was decimated when he won.  I don't think Nelsons on Rondos level either, but he WAS an east coast all star guard a year ago, and wasn't in consideration when Rondo won, due to Nelsons injury.  You just can't say Rondo won based on improvement, with so many other changes to the landscape at the time.

[ejk3489]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
  

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

  Haha. I meant coaches, players, Ainge and the like, not the peanut gallery.

So basically you're just talking about the people whose paychecks and/or work environment could be negatively effected by their public statements on the subject?  LOL. Doesn't seem like the population I'd look to if I wanted to hear honest opinions.

Well than what about the rest of the NBA and oppossing coaches/players/writers? Because it's not just people associated with the Celtics that have said Rondo has improved.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Right now I'm more jealous of Westbrook as a whole. This kid is just amazing.

[dtrader]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
  

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

  Haha. I meant coaches, players, Ainge and the like, not the peanut gallery.

So basically you're just talking about the people whose paychecks and/or work environment could be negatively effected by their public statements on the subject?  LOL. Doesn't seem like the population I'd look to if I wanted to hear honest opinions.

Well than what about the rest of the NBA and oppossing coaches/players/writers? Because it's not just people associated with the Celtics that have said Rondo has improved.

How often have you heard ANYONE associated with ANY NBA team say that ANY player hasn't improved?  It rarely ever happens. That doesn't mean every player in the league is getting better. It just means that people recognize that they have nothing to gain by calling players out with negative comments like that. If a reporter asks "what do you think of Rajon Rondos play", do you really expect a player/coach/GM/etc to say "I don't think he's any better than he was 2 years ago"? That's just not realistic.  It doesn't mean they don't feel that way. It just doesn't make sense to say it publicly.

If I was a player competing against Rondo, I'd tell the media, that he's "the best in the game today, and has become a real leader for the celts"....Then when the game started, I'd give him 10ft to shoot like a bum, and be in his ear the whole game about how much he sucks. Then after the game, I'd go right back to praising him. That's how the game is played.

[OsirusCeltics]

I'm jealous cause people don't realize he's just Vinnie Johnson 2.0

[ejk3489]

I'm jealous that Rose keeps improving, while Rondo hasn't gotten any better over the last two years.  The minutes and assists are up, but everything else is down- shooting percentage, points, rebounds, free throw shooting.  His PER has gone from the 19's to the 16's last year to this year.  Hopefully it's just a focus thing with him, and he turms it on in the playoffs.

  When Rondo and Rose faced off in the playoffs two Rondo wasn't an all-star, he wasn't all-defense and he wasn't leading (or almost leading) the league in assists. To say he hasn't improved is ridiculous.

Winning awards doesn't necessarily show that you improved...especially when there's barely any competition for your spot.

  No, it's actually his play that shows he improved, and pretty much everyone associated with the Celts or the nba (that I've heard comment on Rondo) seem to agree with that.
  

Well, it was your own initial statement, that used awards as a measuring stick. I simply countered it.  Saying that everyone associated with the Celts or the NBA agrees that Rondo has improved, doesn't seem reasonable when it's posted on a Celtics NBA forum, in a thread created for (and dominated by) discussion about Rondos lack of development.

  Haha. I meant coaches, players, Ainge and the like, not the peanut gallery.

So basically you're just talking about the people whose paychecks and/or work environment could be negatively effected by their public statements on the subject?  LOL. Doesn't seem like the population I'd look to if I wanted to hear honest opinions.

Well than what about the rest of the NBA and oppossing coaches/players/writers? Because it's not just people associated with the Celtics that have said Rondo has improved.

How often have you heard ANYONE associated with ANY NBA team say that ANY player hasn't improved?  It rarely ever happens. That doesn't mean every player in the league is getting better. It just means that people recognize that they have nothing to gain by calling players out with negative comments like that. If a reporter asks "what do you think of Rajon Rondos play", do you really expect a player/coach/GM/etc to say "I don't think he's any better than he was 2 years ago"? That's just not realistic.  It doesn't mean they don't feel that way. It just doesn't make sense to say it publicly.

If I was a player competing against Rondo, I'd tell the media, that he's "the best in the game today, and has become a real leader for the celts"....Then when the game started, I'd give him 10ft to shoot like a bum, and be in his ear the whole game about how much he sucks. Then after the game, I'd go right back to praising him. That's how the game is played.

I'd expect them not to say this because it's not true. I mean if you really think Rondo hasn't improved in the last 2 or 3 years then I don't really know what to say. And if coaches really did think that, why would they vote for him to make the all-star team? Or the all defensive team? (Yes, I know, other players were injured, moved out West, ect...they still could've have picked someone else)

Also, I'm not just talking about coaches or GM's....I included writers/bloggers in there too. What to do they have to gain by saying that Rondo has gotten better?