The trade has killed this team

[vinnie]

just waiting for the switch to flip

Remember, even if that switch does flip, there will be 7 players on this playoff roster who were not here last year when the alleged switch flipped. An entirely different scenario.

[CoachBo]

we are overreacting. When the Cs lost to the bobcats i also felt mad.

This has nothing to do with the Bobcats. We're 4-6 in our last 10 games.

But were you able see that they went on a nice winning streak prior to this? It takes time to make a cohesive unit from new personnel.

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money. Money which the celtics could not afford given the situation. It all boils down to managing how we could be a better team with him or without him.

I loved perk, hell I really loved how he handled himself during our title run, but come on he wanted more since the hype surrounding his defensive prowess grew bigger and bigger.

It a rollercoaster ride my friends. We are fortunate that we do have more ups than downs. Imagine being a Wolves or Cavs fan - we would have died of stress by now.

He didn't want max money, necessarily, but the contract he got in OKC is FAR beyond - at least $2 million a year - what his skillset and health warrants, IMHO. I will never have any issue with Danny Ainge not wanting to pay 9 large a year for a player with Perkins' skillset and health.

This slump isn't about the trade on the floor, as much as some desperately want it to be. It may be between Rondo's ears, but if it is, it tells you more about Rondo and what we may need to do about him in the future than anything else. It's about a first five that is playing very poorly.

[European NBA fan]

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money.

Even putting aside the debate of present vs. future, Perk never asked for a max contract.  He signed for well below the max in OKC, and would have likely taken even less for the Celts.

Perk got max from the OKC. He would probably have taken the same or less from the Celtics, but we couldn't offer that much because of the CBA.

No, he could have signed for much more in the off-season.  There are different rules for extensions, but Perk didn't get a "max" contract by any stretch.

I didn't mean he got a max contract. He got max of what the Thunder could offer in an extension. And I think Mazingerz' point was that Perkins wanted to max out his pay check.

[Roy H.]

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money.

Even putting aside the debate of present vs. future, Perk never asked for a max contract.  He signed for well below the max in OKC, and would have likely taken even less for the Celts.

Perk got max from the OKC. He would probably have taken the same or less from the Celtics, but we couldn't offer that much because of the CBA.

No, he could have signed for much more in the off-season.  There are different rules for extensions, but Perk didn't get a "max" contract by any stretch.

I didn't mean he got a max contract. He got max of what the Thunder could offer in an extension. And I think Mazingerz' point was that Perkins wanted to max out his pay check.

First, I don't think there's any indication that Perk wanted to "max out" his pay.  If he did, he would have entered free agency.

Second, both Boston and OKC could have offered Perk more in the summer.

I know that fans are trying to spin Perk as a money loving, "basketball is a business" type of player, but that's never been his style.  He took a home town discount once, and all his public comments were that he was willing to do so again.

[BballTim]

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money.

Even putting aside the debate of present vs. future, Perk never asked for a max contract.  He signed for well below the max in OKC, and would have likely taken even less for the Celts.

Perk got max from the OKC. He would probably have taken the same or less from the Celtics, but we couldn't offer that much because of the CBA.

No, he could have signed for much more in the off-season.  There are different rules for extensions, but Perk didn't get a "max" contract by any stretch.

I didn't mean he got a max contract. He got max of what the Thunder could offer in an extension. And I think Mazingerz' point was that Perkins wanted to max out his pay check.

First, I don't think there's any indication that Perk wanted to "max out" his pay.  If he did, he would have entered free agency.

Second, both Boston and OKC could have offered Perk more in the summer.

I know that fans are trying to spin Perk as a money loving, "basketball is a business" type of player, but that's never been his style.  He took a home town discount once, and all his public comments were that he was willing to do so again.

  Even though you're right in your argument it's somewhat moot as even a "home town discount" would have been more than Danny was willing to pay.

[More Banners]

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money.

Even putting aside the debate of present vs. future, Perk never asked for a max contract.  He signed for well below the max in OKC, and would have likely taken even less for the Celts.

Perk got max from the OKC. He would probably have taken the same or less from the Celtics, but we couldn't offer that much because of the CBA.

No, he could have signed for much more in the off-season.  There are different rules for extensions, but Perk didn't get a "max" contract by any stretch.

I didn't mean he got a max contract. He got max of what the Thunder could offer in an extension. And I think Mazingerz' point was that Perkins wanted to max out his pay check.

First, I don't think there's any indication that Perk wanted to "max out" his pay.  If he did, he would have entered free agency.

Second, both Boston and OKC could have offered Perk more in the summer.

I know that fans are trying to spin Perk as a money loving, "basketball is a business" type of player, but that's never been his style.  He took a home town discount once, and all his public comments were that he was willing to do so again.

I don't think anyone is making that case about Perk in this "money loving" negative way, but rather opining that he wanted more money than he was likely to get from Boston, and would be offered enough of a difference by another team that he (and any other reasonable person) would have likely left.  I think he looked at the OKC deal and quickly figured it to be close to what he'd get in FA, perhaps more given the CBA uncertainty and the injury, and secured his future.

It's easy to see, and beyond dispute, that Perk is a piece of a title-contending team.  What isn't as easy to see is how much to pay each of those pieces.  If the current roster is an indication, a contender has or needs four players in the $10million plus range, which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

I would certainly not bet the future of the franchise that Perk is willing to stay for a discount if I have a chance to land a young multi-skilled player for the present and future, solid starting center, and a draft pick.

[Jon]

Forget last year.  How about the Lakers earlier this year when all the Carmelo rumors were circulating?  Everyone left them for dead.  Then look what happened.  Everything is fine for them now. 

And I wouldn't even entirely forget last year.  While there are many new faces, the Big Four (those most guilty of turning off the switch) are still here to switch it back on, as is Big Baby.  So yes, maybe Carlos Arroyo, Troy Murphy, and Sasha Pavlovic can't "turn it back on"; however, they also won't be playing.  In fact, the only "new" players in our rotation will be Delonte West, Shaq, Jeff Green, and either JO or Nenad.  And given the fact that Shaq and JO aren't even playing right now, they can't even be foudn to have "turned it off".

[Onslaught]

just waiting for the switch to flip

It has flipped. It just got flipped off. 

[Roy H.]

Forget last year.  How about the Lakers earlier this year when all the Carmelo rumors were circulating?  Everyone left them for dead.  Then look what happened.  Everything is fine for them now.  

Hopefully you're right, but there's a pretty big difference.  The Lakers were a team that had all its pieces together and mostly healthy, but that was bored in the regular season.

That's not the Celtics.  The Celtics are integrating a lot of pieces into the rotation, and we can only hope that they're healthy heading into the playoffs.

In fact, the only "new" players in our rotation will be Delonte West, Shaq, Jeff Green, and either JO or Nenad.

Again, I hope you're right, but those guys make up half the rotation.  We're going to be relying upon each of them pretty heavily, and it's important that they're not only mentally ready, but that they have a grasp on our system.  If healthy, I'm fairly confident in Shaq and Delonte in that regard, but I think Green, Krstic, and JO are all pretty questionable.

[winsomme]

we are overreacting. When the Cs lost to the bobcats i also felt mad.

This has nothing to do with the Bobcats. We're 4-6 in our last 10 games.

But were you able see that they went on a nice winning streak prior to this? It takes time to make a cohesive unit from new personnel.

The trade was necessary in my opinion. Perk wanted max money. Money which the celtics could not afford given the situation. It all boils down to managing how we could be a better team with him or without him.

I loved perk, hell I really loved how he handled himself during our title run, but come on he wanted more since the hype surrounding his defensive prowess grew bigger and bigger.

It a rollercoaster ride my friends. We are fortunate that we do have more ups than downs. Imagine being a Wolves or Cavs fan - we would have died of stress by now.

He didn't want max money, necessarily, but the contract he got in OKC is FAR beyond - at least $2 million a year - what his skillset and health warrants, IMHO. I will never have any issue with Danny Ainge not wanting to pay 9 large a year for a player with Perkins' skillset and health.

This slump isn't about the trade on the floor, as much as some desperately want it to be. It may be between Rondo's ears, but if it is, it tells you more about Rondo and what we may need to do about him in the future than anything else. It's about a first five that is playing very poorly.

much like OKC used to be, we currently do not have a starting center. so this is very much about the trade ON the floor.

just like OKC believed and is now finding out, having a defensive-minded center is very important.

[BballTim]

Forget last year.  How about the Lakers earlier this year when all the Carmelo rumors were circulating?  Everyone left them for dead.  Then look what happened.  Everything is fine for them now.  

Hopefully you're right, but there's a pretty big difference.  The Lakers were a team that had all its pieces together and mostly healthy, but that was bored in the regular season.

That's not the Celtics.  The Celtics are integrating a lot of pieces into the rotation, and we can only hope that they're healthy heading into the playoffs.

In fact, the only "new" players in our rotation will be Delonte West, Shaq, Jeff Green, and either JO or Nenad.

Again, I hope you're right, but those guys make up half the rotation.  We're going to be relying upon each of them pretty heavily, and it's important that they're not only mentally ready, but that they have a grasp on our system.  If healthy, I'm fairly confident in Shaq and Delonte in that regard, but I think Green, Krstic, and JO are all pretty questionable.

  Half the rotation by head count, clearly not by minutes.

[winsomme]

It seems as if the point that the C's were the number one defensive team before Perkins returned is being completely ignored. Were they playing harder before Perkins came back?  Was the chemistry disrupted then? Were they thinking "Yeah, let's be the number one defensive team, but the only way to maintain this is if Perkins comes back. We can't possibly do this without him."

I love that someone brought up Anthony Parker as a viable SF option for a back up. Paul would pretty much play 48 minutes a game in the playoffs.

The Big 3 (4) have been in the league long enough where they should be grown-ups about this.

  Pretty sure the defense was #2 before Perk came back, Chicago was #1.

  And it's not just the trade, it's also the FA signings and getting West back from injury. Doc's integrating a lot of new guys into the lineup and it's bound to throw off our rhythm.

how's our rhythm going to be affected by Shaq and JO coming back? Two players who haven't played in a really long time in their FIRST season with the team...

  Shaq was in the lineup for half the season. You don't see that as different from people that haven't played on the team before?

there's a difference but still another obstacle to overcome in this strange effort to get a backup SF...

considering the amount of time a backup SF needs to play and the relative importance of that role compared to your starting center, I think we are all seeing just how important Shaq and JOs successful re-integration is to our ability to play anywhere near the level we were playing at prior to the trade.

a backup SF is simply WAY less important than a starting center.

[JSD]

Stay with me here. It's not the players that were traded, but the fact the trade was made At all. It has completely disrupted this team. It is 9-8 since the trade.the trade was made too late in the year. DId you see Doc tonight? I have not seen him that disgusted in a Long time. I am sure many will disagree, but I m sticking to my story.

So what's your explanation for last year when we went through the same thing? I don't buy this idea the the trade killed our team. We're in the dog days of the season and waiting for our big guys to come back healthy. We really weren't built for the regular season.Just wait until we know our opponent and there's no more back to backs.

THIS TEAM WAS BUILT FOR THE PLAYOFFS.

[Jon]

Just to clarify my earlier remarks; I'm by no means 100% confident everything will materialize.  And I'm certainly not trying to excuse what they're doing: I've been on this board significantly less the past couple of weeks mostly because I've been p---ed off. 

However, I do think that the regular season is long and a series of ups and downs.  Clearly this team proved that they could win earlier this season and even with the new pieces. 

As I already pointed out, the Big 4 plus BBD, Shaq, and Delonte are 7 of our top 8 players.  We're really only going to have to "integrate" Jeff Green and either Nenad or JO.  Because of this, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that perhaps a lot of our problems is boredom with the regular season. 

[BballTim]

It seems as if the point that the C's were the number one defensive team before Perkins returned is being completely ignored. Were they playing harder before Perkins came back?  Was the chemistry disrupted then? Were they thinking "Yeah, let's be the number one defensive team, but the only way to maintain this is if Perkins comes back. We can't possibly do this without him."

I love that someone brought up Anthony Parker as a viable SF option for a back up. Paul would pretty much play 48 minutes a game in the playoffs.

The Big 3 (4) have been in the league long enough where they should be grown-ups about this.

  Pretty sure the defense was #2 before Perk came back, Chicago was #1.

  And it's not just the trade, it's also the FA signings and getting West back from injury. Doc's integrating a lot of new guys into the lineup and it's bound to throw off our rhythm.

how's our rhythm going to be affected by Shaq and JO coming back? Two players who haven't played in a really long time in their FIRST season with the team...

  Shaq was in the lineup for half the season. You don't see that as different from people that haven't played on the team before?

there's a difference but still another obstacle to overcome in this strange effort to get a backup SF...

considering the amount of time a backup SF needs to play and the relative importance of that role compared to your starting center, I think we are all seeing just how important Shaq and JOs successful re-integration is to our ability to play anywhere near the level we were playing at prior to the trade.

a backup SF is simply WAY less important than a starting center.

  You're completely ignoring the fact that the Celts felt that Perk was too much of an injury risk to pencil in as their main center for the playoffs.