So, everybody still in love with Rondo???

[FatjohnReturns]

With respect to Rondo. He is a better team player than he was as a rookie yes. He learned how to play within the team and learned how to play with the other starters.

Individual skills development no he hasnt grown much at all. There is no excuse for not being able to make free throws.

  No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling? And how many jumpers did he make then compared to now? Is he no better at getting to the rim?

Well he has more assists. Is that due to the fact he is a better passer or that he knows the offense and is playing with guys that can score the ball?  

His defense is putrid. He cant stay in front of his man. Opposing points guards with speed carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey. His steals are mostly poke aways from behind once he is already beat.

His rebounding has been fairly steady at about four per game his whole career.

I dont really see how his ball handeling can be better when he is averaging a career high 3.6 turnovers per game this year.

Worst of all he cant shoot the dang ball
       54% free throws worst % year
       27% 3PT

Bottom line he isnt putting in the work to become a better shooter. He doesnt feel he needs too.

[BballTim]

With respect to Rondo. He is a better team player than he was as a rookie yes. He learned how to play within the team and learned how to play with the other starters.

Individual skills development no he hasnt grown much at all. There is no excuse for not being able to make free throws.

  No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling? And how many jumpers did he make then compared to now? Is he no better at getting to the rim?

Well he has more assists. Is that due to the fact he is a better passer or that he knows the offense and is playing with guys that can score the ball?  

His defense is putrid. He cant stay in front of his man. Opposing points guards with speed carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey. His steals are mostly poke aways from behind once he is already beat.

His rebounding has been fairly steady at about four per game his whole career.

I dont really see how his ball handeling can be better when he is averaging a career high 3.6 turnovers per game this year.

Worst of all he cant shoot the dang ball
       54% free throws worst % year
       27% 3PT

Bottom line he isnt putting in the work to become a better shooter. He doesnt feel he needs too.

  Where to begin?

  If you don't see any difference in his passing since his rookie year I'd honestly wonder if you've ever seen him play, or else assume that your personal dislike for him taints your opinion.

  If you check the opponent's production from 82games, as of March 5th he allowed a lower eFG%, fewer rebounds, fewer assists and a lower PER than any other starting point guard in the league. He's 3rd or 4th in most turnovers forced. I would assume when you say opposing point guards "carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey" you mean "shoot at a lower percentage and get fewer points and assists than normal". Either that or your "expertise" on Rondo's passing extends to his defense as well.

  As for his ballhandling, again from 82games, he had (as of March 5th) 41 ballhandling turnovers and 12 offensive fouls. Combine those and you get 53. Check out the combined totals for some of the other point guards:

  Rose, 96

  CP3, 66

  Nash, 58

  DWill, 73

  Westbrook,  133

  His ballhandling is clearly well above average. Most of his turnovers are passing turnovers, because he makes more passes than most point guards. He's 4th among point guards in assist/turnover ratio. He averages more turnovers because he handles the ball so much more, not because of a failure to improve as a player.

[kozlodoev]

He looked far more athletic in the last two games.  I loved that dunk attempt.  I almost forgot he could do that, it's been so long.  He had some great rebounds and bounce passes.

But I agree with the poster who said it's kind of strange that he passes up open layups but seems to look for his own shot at wierd times.  Not sure what that is all about.  That "standing runner" at the end of last night's game was wierd.  He has also pounded the ball and taken a lot of long jumpers and threes in crunch time moments lately.  It's just strange that it's the same guy who doesn't want to take open layups sometimes.

Still, I'm glad he's on the way back and I've been happy with him the last few games.

Rondo's poor performance has nothing to do with the runner. In the middle of the second quarter, there was a prolonged period of time when we were down by 1, got stops on the defensive end, but were unable to make any headway because there we botched offensive possession after offensive possession. I thought Rondo was responsible for most of the offensive failure during that time, either by being too hasty or by dribbling the ball for 14 seconds before initiating anything.

  Rondo came in in the 2nd quarter with the Celts down 7. Ray hit a three to get them with 2 and then they had a shot clock violation but they scored on their next 5 possessions.

What does this have to do with the fact that he may have cost us the game with his bad decisions in the 4th?

  So you criticize him for a stretch in the second quarter that seemingly never occurred and this is your response?

Apparently, I am an idiot. When I say "middle of the second quarter", I actually mean "middle of the fourth quarter".

[BballTim]

He looked far more athletic in the last two games.  I loved that dunk attempt.  I almost forgot he could do that, it's been so long.  He had some great rebounds and bounce passes.

But I agree with the poster who said it's kind of strange that he passes up open layups but seems to look for his own shot at wierd times.  Not sure what that is all about.  That "standing runner" at the end of last night's game was wierd.  He has also pounded the ball and taken a lot of long jumpers and threes in crunch time moments lately.  It's just strange that it's the same guy who doesn't want to take open layups sometimes.

Still, I'm glad he's on the way back and I've been happy with him the last few games.

Rondo's poor performance has nothing to do with the runner. In the middle of the second quarter, there was a prolonged period of time when we were down by 1, got stops on the defensive end, but were unable to make any headway because there we botched offensive possession after offensive possession. I thought Rondo was responsible for most of the offensive failure during that time, either by being too hasty or by dribbling the ball for 14 seconds before initiating anything.

  Rondo came in in the 2nd quarter with the Celts down 7. Ray hit a three to get them with 2 and then they had a shot clock violation but they scored on their next 5 possessions.

What does this have to do with the fact that he may have cost us the game with his bad decisions in the 4th?

  So you criticize him for a stretch in the second quarter that seemingly never occurred and this is your response?

Apparently, I am an idiot. When I say "middle of the second quarter", I actually mean "middle of the fourth quarter".

  Happens to all of us. I thought they were starting to look pretty bad on offense while Rondo was out and the poor play continued when he came in.

[FatjohnReturns]

With respect to Rondo. He is a better team player than he was as a rookie yes. He learned how to play within the team and learned how to play with the other starters.

Individual skills development no he hasnt grown much at all. There is no excuse for not being able to make free throws.

  No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling? And how many jumpers did he make then compared to now? Is he no better at getting to the rim?

Wait a second 4 posts ago you say this "No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling?"

then heres you again "His ballhandling is clearly below par"

Sorry bud he is a terrible defender. You can manipulate statistics anyway you please. If Rondo gets beat but KG rotates out and gets a hand up on the shot. The opposing pg misses the shot and Rondos efg looks great its not a very good indicator eh?

As for "He's 3rd or 4th in most turnovers" is mostly because he lets the man get by him and tries to poke the ball from behind. That is not good defense. Just watch the games he doenst stay between his man and the hoop.

[Fafnir]

Rondo is terrible at defense? Who's a good defensive PG then?

Because if Rondo's not the best defensive starting PG he surely is in the top 5.

[BballTim]

With respect to Rondo. He is a better team player than he was as a rookie yes. He learned how to play within the team and learned how to play with the other starters.

Individual skills development no he hasnt grown much at all. There is no excuse for not being able to make free throws.

  No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling? And how many jumpers did he make then compared to now? Is he no better at getting to the rim?

Wait a second 4 posts ago you say this "No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling?"

then heres you again "His ballhandling is clearly below par"

Sorry bud he is a terrible defender. You can manipulate statistics anyway you please. If Rondo gets beat but KG rotates out and gets a hand up on the shot. The opposing pg misses the shot and Rondos efg looks great its not a very good indicator eh?

As for "He's 3rd or 4th in most turnovers" is mostly because he lets the man get by him and tries to poke the ball from behind. That is not good defense. Just watch the games he doenst stay between his man and the hoop.

  Yes, I changed the "ballhandling is clearly below par" because I figured you'd miss the sarcasm. And I do watch the games, but I don't just fixate on possible flaws in Rondo's game. I see other point guards that are also unable to keep players in front of them.

  You obviously see a different game. I'm guessing that if Rondo is such a terrible defender, you'll have no problem listing 15 or so point guards that are significantly better than Rondo at keeping their man in front of them. That way I can catch their games when they're on tv and see what I'm missing, and what the stats don't show.

  I'll even settle for a list of 8-10 point guards that are clearly better than Rondo at keeping their man in front of them.

[FatjohnReturns]

Since I don't have time to watch several games of 15 other point guards. How about I give you one on our team.

Delonte

[dtrader]

With respect to Rondo. He is a better team player than he was as a rookie yes. He learned how to play within the team and learned how to play with the other starters.

Individual skills development no he hasnt grown much at all. There is no excuse for not being able to make free throws.

  No improvement at all to his passing, defending or ballhandling? And how many jumpers did he make then compared to now? Is he no better at getting to the rim?

Well he has more assists. Is that due to the fact he is a better passer or that he knows the offense and is playing with guys that can score the ball?  

His defense is putrid. He cant stay in front of his man. Opposing points guards with speed carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey. His steals are mostly poke aways from behind once he is already beat.

His rebounding has been fairly steady at about four per game his whole career.

I dont really see how his ball handeling can be better when he is averaging a career high 3.6 turnovers per game this year.

Worst of all he cant shoot the dang ball
       54% free throws worst % year
       27% 3PT

Bottom line he isnt putting in the work to become a better shooter. He doesnt feel he needs too.

  Where to begin?

  If you don't see any difference in his passing since his rookie year I'd honestly wonder if you've ever seen him play, or else assume that your personal dislike for him taints your opinion.

  If you check the opponent's production from 82games, as of March 5th he allowed a lower eFG%, fewer rebounds, fewer assists and a lower PER than any other starting point guard in the league. He's 3rd or 4th in most turnovers forced. I would assume when you say opposing point guards "carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey" you mean "shoot at a lower percentage and get fewer points and assists than normal". Either that or your "expertise" on Rondo's passing extends to his defense as well.

  As for his ballhandling, again from 82games, he had (as of March 5th) 41 ballhandling turnovers and 12 offensive fouls. Combine those and you get 53. Check out the combined totals for some of the other point guards:

  Rose, 96

  CP3, 66

  Nash, 58

  DWill, 73

  Westbrook,  133

  His ballhandling is clearly well above average. Most of his turnovers are passing turnovers, because he makes more passes than most point guards. He's 4th among point guards in assist/turnover ratio. He averages more turnovers because he handles the ball so much more, not because of a failure to improve as a player.

I think some would argue, that Nash and CP3 have lower "ballhandling turnover" numbers because they're adept shooters...not many "ballhandling" turnovers to be had when you're shooting.  Similarly, Rose, dwill, and westbrook are all high scoring slashers...that will lead them to have a greater number of offensive fouls (and likewise draw more blocking fouls)....That stat really has so many variables going into it, that it's hard to take much from it.  

As for Rondo making the all star team now, as opposed to 2 or 3 years ago.  It has more to do with his competition falling off, then his Improvement. Cp3, Nash, Tony Parker, Kidd, Baron Davis, Billups, AI...every other point guard that would have been in his spot in recent years, has either been battling injuries, or is advancing in years.  Same reason Al Horford is in the all star game instead of Shaq or Yao ming.

Since he came into the league, Rondo may have become more mature  (which could lead to him being a better floor general and taking on a more primary role on a team of vets), but his skills don't seem to have improved significantly.  I still this he's the best defensive PG in the league, but defense is effort...not skill.  Shooting and passing are skills.  His passing has always been good, and as he matures his decision making may lead to better passing decisions, but his shooting (the primary "skill" in basketball) does not seem to have improved at all.    

Also, any time a player has control of the ball, and is advancing toward the opponents goal past the defense, it's considered (and defined as) a "breakaway"...so yeah, he was on one.

[Fafnir]

Since I don't have time to watch several games of 15 other point guards. How about I give you one on our team.

Delonte

Delonte is an excellent defender, but I don't think he's better than Rondo. Especially given what I've seen when he has to play starter minutes in the past.

I will say even if you only watch the C's you should see opposing PGs plenty, especially if you focus on Rondo. Defensively relative to his peers Rondo is excellent. Though lately he's been slumping with his entire game, hopefully he turns it on in the playoffs.

[BballTim]

Since I don't have time to watch several games of 15 other point guards. How about I give you one on our team.

Delonte

  So when you say things like "his defense is putrid" you have no idea because you have no clue how it compares to other point guards. How about last night? Conley's a speedy point guard. Did he carve us up like a thanksgiving turkey? Or did you notice that he'd call for a screen when he wanted to get around Rondo while Rondo was just blowing by Conley? Did you wonder why Conley was calling for a screen when he could just blow by Rondo at will? Do you wonder that game in and game out?


 

[FatjohnReturns]

Since I don't have time to watch several games of 15 other point guards. How about I give you one on our team.

Delonte

Delonte is an excellent defender, but I don't think he's better than Rondo. Especially given what I've seen when he has to play starter minutes in the past.
I will say even if you only watch the C's you should see opposing PGs plenty, especially if you focus on Rondo. Defensively relative to his peers Rondo is excellent. Though lately he's been slumping with his entire game, hopefully he turns it on in the playoffs.

When have you seen West play starter minutes with Allen,Pierce,Garnett?

Watching opposing pgs for a few games here and there is alot different than watching every Celtics game for the last five years.

The biggest myth in Celtics Nation right now is that Rondo is a good defender. As time goes forward and the big three retire this will be debunked.

[arctic 3.0]

Saw it for myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQC6oCi78x4&feature=player_embedded

Wow. Utterly pathetic.

thats the second time this season he has done this late in the 4th quarter. both times we came up empty on the play and lost the game.
ggrrrrrrrondOOOOO!

attack rondo, ATTACK!

[kozlodoev]

I don't see where he's "afraid to score". I actually thought not laying it up there as a loaf of bread to be blocked by the two defenders that were running back was a pretty smart play.

Note that he turns towards the basket with clear intent to score, and is bumped out of bounds (no call) before he gets rid of the ball.

[Fafnir]

Since I don't have time to watch several games of 15 other point guards. How about I give you one on our team.

Delonte

Delonte is an excellent defender, but I don't think he's better than Rondo. Especially given what I've seen when he has to play starter minutes in the past.
I will say even if you only watch the C's you should see opposing PGs plenty, especially if you focus on Rondo. Defensively relative to his peers Rondo is excellent. Though lately he's been slumping with his entire game, hopefully he turns it on in the playoffs.

When have you seen West play starter minutes with Allen,Pierce,Garnett?

Watching opposing pgs for a few games here and there is alot different than watching every Celtics game for the last five years.

The biggest myth in Celtics Nation right now is that Rondo is a good defender. As time goes forward and the big three retire this will be debunked.

Well I watched him an awful lot with the Cavs, when they were a high quality defensive team.

If you're declaring other peoples viewpoints a "myth" I guess we're done.