Celtics Defense Looks Fine to Me

[Roy H.]

Too many comments based on stereotypes and reputation.  Before Curly, we had another "euro-softie" in the middle (Semih) and we were still the number defensive team.

I don't like the "Euro soft" stereotype, either.  However, Krstic plays soft, not from stereotype or reputation, but from observation of him over the last several games.

[yagru]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.

If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

Yup Krstic is terrible at protecting the paint. I mean really really really bad. His offensive numbers are deceiving.. he is giving up just as much on defense.

Shaq is not a great defender either. He clogs up the middle a hell of a lot more (which will help).. but if anything Shaqs defense was pretty bad during the first half of the season.

Cs interior defense right now really worries me.

[ballin]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.

If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

I ought to just make my signature "whatever Hobbs said".

I agree 9/10 times, as I do with this post. Krstic was scary bad defensively against the Knicks. His offensive doesn't make up for it, not even close.

With Perk, he was AMAZING on defense and an offensive non-factor (not a liability, as some suggest). In other words, his net benefit to the team was greater than Krstic's.

JO is like Perkins only slightly worse defensively and way worse offensively (putrid, really). I don't think we can depend on him. I'm gonna say now what I've been saying a lot recently: if we want to win, not only do we need Shaq back, we need him to play a LOT of minutes. I'm not sure everybody on here recognizes how much of an upgrade Shaq really is over all of our other big men now that Perkins is gone.

[ballin]

Too many comments based on stereotypes and reputation.  Before Curly, we had another "euro-softie" in the middle (Semih) and we were still the number defensive team.

KG got owned in HOU and NO (and by Stat in the past).  But because he's "KG" he won't get slack from anyone. Did you see how many times he went out to the perimter to gamble on the ball handler and they'd just slip a pass to West cutting to the basket; easy 2; 3 point chance, or at a minimum a shooting foul.

1.) Whoever said Semih was a euro softie? Most people(including most on celticsblog) were praising him for his toughness earlier in the season. This statement is pure invention on your behalf. Krstic actually IS a bad defender, and it has nothing to do with any stereotype.

2.) Are you really insinuating that KG, former Defensive Play of the Year, is bad on defense? Really??? And even assuming that the play which you refer to was KG's fault, well, nobody's perfect. But that doesn't change the fact that KG is the best defensive player on our team, and possibly in the league. THAT'S why "KG [doesn't catch any flack]" (inserted what I assume you meant to say).

[bucknersrevenge]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.
If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

Now I haven't noticed this at all. I actually went to the game last Sunday against Milwaukee and I watched Krstic specifically. He made the correct rotation every single time he was supposed to make it and on time. He was not late with help. He hedged perfectly on the pick n roll in that game and got back to his man quickly. He's not Perk but I just haven't seen what's being described above.

Even in the Clippers game that everyone likes to throw at Krstic's doormat, Krstic made all the proper rotations to help in that game. The reason why his man scored 21 was because Randy Foye treated Rondo and more specifically Ray Allen like a turnstile and Krstic had to step up and make the correct rotation to cut off the penetration leaving his man open. I'd say the real issue with this team lately has NOT been in the middle but the inordinate amount of penetration by guards that our starters have allowed. Watching Ray and Rondo play defense the last week plus has been an unmitigated disaster.

Now what you may attribute to Krstic starting is that now teams know that they're not gonna get knocked around with Perk not there anymore so they're penetrating more frequently, or running more pick n roll than they used to but at some point our guards have to start putting forth a little effort in to keep guys out of the paint.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.
If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

Now I haven't noticed this at all. I actually went to the game last Sunday against Milwaukee and I watched Krstic specifically. He made the correct rotation every single time he was supposed to make it and on time. He was not late with help. He hedged perfectly on the pick n roll in that game and got back to his man quickly. He's not Perk but I just haven't seen what's being described above.

Even in the Clippers game that everyone likes to throw at Krstic's doormat, Krstic made all the proper rotations to help in that game. The reason why his man scored 21 was because Randy Foye treated Rondo and more specifically Ray Allen like a turnstile and Krstic had to step up and make the correct rotation to cut off the penetration leaving his man open. I'd say the real issue with this team lately has NOT been in the middle but the inordinate amount of penetration by guards that our starters have allowed. Watching Ray and Rondo play defense the last week plus has been an unmitigated disaster.

Will all due respect, I think your grasp of the Cs defense is superficial at best, and that doesn't put you in a very good position as a fan to determine whether Krstic is making the proper rotation or not.  The Cs defense is built on making the right read at the right time, selling out physically to make the rotation, and then having the knowledge to know EXACTLY where to rotate to.  I think Krstic struggles in all three areas.

I guy like Krstic--somebody with limited athleticism--needs to have a firm grasp on the defense in order to be a decent defender.  His understanding--right now--is lacking, and that makes his physical limitations that much more impossible to overcome.  There's a reason our defense is much much better with a 6'7" Glen Davis at center--he knows the defense and he makes the right rotation almost every time, and he does it ON TIME.

There was a play last night where Krstic was out of position by a half step (about 2 feet).  He was trying to position himself outside of the lane as a 2nd defender behind Anthony, but he overcommitted himself by that half step and it opened up a lane to make the pass to the man he was supposed to be guarding and forced Ray Allen to drop back and make the foul, leading to an And-1.  And even before the ball went through the hoop, Ray Allen was in Krstic's face showing him exactly where he needed to be to stop that pass AND still provide backside support for the potential dribble penetration.

Krstic has the potential to be a DECENT defender once he completely understands when and where he needs to be at all times.  He's not there yet and I don't think there's enough of the season to get him there. 

[j804]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.

If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

It's as simple as that if Shaq and yes AND Jermaine can't give us decent minutes in the playoffs we aren't winning another championship.

[Roy H.]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.

If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

It's as simple as that if Shaq and yes AND Jermaine can't give us decent minutes in the playoffs we aren't winning another championship.

I probably wouldn't go that far; as a fourth big man, I think Krstic would be fine.  I'd prefer a better defender and rebounder than him, and a healthy JO would be fantastic, but I think we'll be fine if Krstic is seeing backup minutes.

[Tai]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.
If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

Now I haven't noticed this at all. I actually went to the game last Sunday against Milwaukee and I watched Krstic specifically. He made the correct rotation every single time he was supposed to make it and on time. He was not late with help. He hedged perfectly on the pick n roll in that game and got back to his man quickly. He's not Perk but I just haven't seen what's being described above.

Even in the Clippers game that everyone likes to throw at Krstic's doormat, Krstic made all the proper rotations to help in that game. The reason why his man scored 21 was because Randy Foye treated Rondo and more specifically Ray Allen like a turnstile and Krstic had to step up and make the correct rotation to cut off the penetration leaving his man open. I'd say the real issue with this team lately has NOT been in the middle but the inordinate amount of penetration by guards that our starters have allowed. Watching Ray and Rondo play defense the last week plus has been an unmitigated disaster.

Will all due respect, I think your grasp of the Cs defense is superficial at best, and that doesn't put you in a very good position as a fan to determine whether Krstic is making the proper rotation or not.  The Cs defense is built on making the right read at the right time, selling out physically to make the rotation, and then having the knowledge to know EXACTLY where to rotate to.  I think Krstic struggles in all three areas.

I guy like Krstic--somebody with limited athleticism--needs to have a firm grasp on the defense in order to be a decent defender.  His understanding--right now--is lacking, and that makes his physical limitations that much more impossible to overcome.  There's a reason our defense is much much better with a 6'7" Glen Davis at center--he knows the defense and he makes the right rotation almost every time, and he does it ON TIME.

There was a play last night where Krstic was out of position by a half step (about 2 feet).  He was trying to position himself outside of the lane as a 2nd defender behind Anthony, but he overcommitted himself by that half step and it opened up a lane to make the pass to the man he was supposed to be guarding and forced Ray Allen to drop back and make the foul, leading to an And-1.  And even before the ball went through the hoop, Ray Allen was in Krstic's face showing him exactly where he needed to be to stop that pass AND still provide backside support for the potential dribble penetration.

Krstic has the potential to be a DECENT defender once he completely understands when and where he needs to be at all times.  He's not there yet and I don't think there's enough of the season to get him there. 

I'm not sure what bucknersrevenge said beforehand to make you believe he doesn't know Celtics defense, but I do agree with his assessment that Krstic did ok defensively in the Clippers and Bucks games. And no matter how you spin it, when people after those games are demanding that Rondo be traded, clearly there's some substance to the idea that our perimeter defense probably wasn't the best in those games.

[yagru]

I guess some of us are watching different games then. Curly is terrible at interior defense and he has and will continue to get eaten alive. Hope to god he doesnt have to start playoff games because he is going to get exposed quick. Yes he makes the occasional good stop, which he should at his size.. but he is not athletic enough or familiar enough with the Cs defensive rotations to be effective.. at least to the point of winning a championship. His rotations are slow and terrible. If you can notice his rotations enough to comment they are good then that right there is a RED flag. Rotations should be seamless, unnoticeable.

I like the guy.. I think he has some valuable skills to offer as 2nd string center. He hustles but he will not be able to contain anyone that is physical and skilled. He also does not intimidate penetrators at all which is a major problem. Shaq is not a good defender anymore either, but he does intimidate and clog which is more of what the Cs need right now. Someone that can get physical and take up space.


And what the hell is with people even mentioning JO? The guy is DONE. Washed up. He was terrible this year and late last year. What in the world would make anyone think he can contribute ever again?

[European NBA fan]

I don't think that Krstic is that terribe on defense. He puts in the effort and it seems that he is learning the rotations.

I do think, however, that he doesn't have the necessary physical abilities to play Celtics defense for more than 20 minutes a night. I guess he hasn't had to work that hard when playing with the Thunder.

[Neurotic Guy]

I guess some of us are watching different games then. Curly is terrible at interior defense and he has and will continue to get eaten alive. Hope to god he doesnt have to start playoff games because he is going to get exposed quick. Yes he makes the occasional good stop, which he should at his size.. but he is not athletic enough or familiar enough with the Cs defensive rotations to be effective.. at least to the point of winning a championship. His rotations are slow and terrible. If you can notice his rotations enough to comment they are good then that right there is a RED flag. Rotations should be seamless, unnoticeable.

I like the guy.. I think he has some valuable skills to offer as 2nd string center. He hustles but he will not be able to contain anyone that is physical and skilled. He also does not intimidate penetrators at all which is a major problem. Shaq is not a good defender anymore either, but he does intimidate and clog which is more of what the Cs need right now. Someone that can get physical and take up space.


And what the hell is with people even mentioning JO? The guy is DONE. Washed up. He was terrible this year and late last year. What in the world would make anyone think he can contribute ever again?

JO was not terrible this year in the few games he was reasonably healthy, and (sans the playoffs when he was hurt) the guy was 14 and 7 (and I think he played in the vast majority of games).  If he's healthy enough, he can provide a 5-minute stint here and there.  There is some value in that in the playoffs esp against LA or Orlando.

[Tai]

The defense has played well in stretches, but Krstic is a major liability in the middle.  He's been terrible -- I mean, legitimately horrendous -- at rotating / switching and cutting off penetration.  He looks lost regarding when to help, etc., and he's too slow to recover or to slide over to pick up opponents driving to the hoop.

If Shaq comes back, that hopefully won't be a huge issue.  Shaq has some of the same issues (but to a lesser extent), but he's a big, imposing figure in the lane who makes opponents pay with hard fouls.  Krstic just plays soft.

However, if Shaq can't come back, here's why Krstic's play is important:  our defense is built around our big men, from the inside out.  The tough play of KG + Perk or Shaq has allowed our perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on the outside, without having to worry as much that their defensive assignment will blow by them.  The team has been successful at sealing off penetration, in other words, which further allows Rondo to gamble more, etc.  If one of our bigs -- i.e., Krstic, but really any of them -- starts playing matador defense, that not only allows the opposing center to go off (like Ronny Turiaf), but also leads to the other team running layup drills against us (like Carmelo did several times).

So, let's get Shaq back in there, and if JO can contribute as well, fantastic.  Without either (or both) of them, I worry that we're in trouble.

I ought to just make my signature "whatever Hobbs said".

I agree 9/10 times, as I do with this post. Krstic was scary bad defensively against the Knicks. His offensive doesn't make up for it, not even close.

With Perk, he was AMAZING on defense and an offensive non-factor (not a liability, as some suggest). In other words, his net benefit to the team was greater than Krstic's.

JO is like Perkins only slightly worse defensively and way worse offensively (putrid, really). I don't think we can depend on him. I'm gonna say now what I've been saying a lot recently: if we want to win, not only do we need Shaq back, we need him to play a LOT of minutes. I'm not sure everybody on here recognizes how much of an upgrade Shaq really is over all of our other big men now that Perkins is gone.

I can buy Perk is more effective than JO on either side of the court simply because Perk is healthier right now, but a healthy JO is easily better offensively than Perk, no ifs, ands, buts, etc.

[Greenbean]

Both Krstic and Jeff Green have had trouble figuring out the defensive rotations.

Doc was visibly laying into both of them last night. Im not giving up on either of them figuring it out. Krstic is slow but he isnt any slower than Perkins was.

Besides, Big Baby closes the games out no matter who we have at center. He looked good playing team defense last night even though STAT was KILLING him 1 on 1 earlier in the game.

[Drucci]

Our defense looks fine to me, too. Sure, we allow opponents to score more generally since the trade but it has more to do with a lack of effort in my opinion. We've seen in the Hornets and Knicks games that the Celtics can still play great, suffocating D when it matters most to close out games and come back to win.

Krstic usually doesn't play in these stretches, and Green neither but they've been okay individually on D, although Krstic's D has been questionable in the last games. Anyway I'm not worried about our defense come playoffs time, I'm confident having Shaq and JO back (yes, I'm confident JO will be back and effective) will help fill whatever weakness we may have exposed in the middle recently.