Arroyo is Rondo light

[droopdog7]

And I don't mean that in a good way (though not a terrible way either).  All of the things I have been reading about Arroyo lately though seem over the top.  He is the 3rd best PG on this team and really shoudn't get more than spot minutes in the playoff (assuming West is back and healthy).

Now back to my Rondo light comment.  They are similar in that they are natural PG's, neither of whom can shoot.  Now, I understand that Arroyo has a somewhat better shot.  But don't be fooled, the kid is a below average shooter with below average range.

And obviously he isn't as good a defender, penetrator, distrubuter, or anything else compared to Rondo.  To me, he is essentially a worse version of Rondo and frankly, doesn't provide the kind of change of pace that I would like to see in a back up.

West provides a lot of things that Rondo and Arroyo doesn't.  He is a much better shooter than both of them.  He is bigger.  He can get his own shot better than Arroyo certainly.  He is a steady and underrated defender. 

And most of all, West plays with heart.  He doesn't back down from challenges.  This is probably my biggest fear about Arroyo in that he seems to me like a guy that would back down.  Just a gut feeling. And let's not forget that he was cut from a team for 50-year-old Mike Bibby.

So in the end, I like him as a third PG and as insurance.  And after watching Nate, House, and Bradley play back up PG, I know it is refreshing for fans to see a guy that is actually a PG come in a play.  But West handles the duties more than well enough and he brings skills and mentality that the others do not.

[Lucky17]

Flip side: Arroyo brings a durability that West does not.

Both will be needed during the playoffs.

[Newguy]

And I don't mean that in a good way (though not a terrible way either).  All of the things I have been reading about Arroyo lately though seem over the top.  He is the 3rd best PG on this team and really shoudn't get more than spot minutes in the playoff (assuming West is back and healthy).

Now back to my Rondo light comment.  They are similar in that they are natural PG's, neither of whom can shoot.  Now, I understand that Arroyo has a somewhat better shot.  But don't be fooled, the kid is a below average shooter with below average range.

And obviously he isn't as good a defender, penetrator, distrubuter, or anything else compared to Rondo.  To me, he is essentially a worse version of Rondo and frankly, doesn't provide the kind of change of pace that I would like to see in a back up.

West provides a lot of things that Rondo and Arroyo doesn't.  He is a much better shooter than both of them.  He is bigger.  He can get his own shot better than Arroyo certainly.  He is a steady and underrated defender. 

And most of all, West plays with heart.  He doesn't back down from challenges.  This is probably my biggest fear about Arroyo in that he seems to me like a guy that would back down.  Just a gut feeling. And let's not forget that he was cut from a team for 50-year-old Mike Bibby.

So in the end, I like him as a third PG and as insurance.  And after watching Nate, House, and Bradley play back up PG, I know it is refreshing for fans to see a guy that is actually a PG come in a play.  But West handles the duties more than well enough and he brings skills and mentality that the others do not.

You may be right on most of what you said, but how do you come to the conclusion that Arroyo doesn't play with heart and will back down?  Remember when he led Puerto Rico against Team USA? He had 25 points, 7 assists, and 4 steals in that victory.  I remember that game.  He was all heart.  Hopefully he still has that fire in him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1iW-oqYnMs

[35Lewis]

Arroyo is listed at 200lbs and clearly heavier than Rondo.

[Celtics4ever]

West may not backdown but his body sure backs down from about any contact.  He is a man of Kleenex not steel and has been downright fragile.  I agree he has plenty of moxy and grit but man is this guy fragile or what.

He is a better shooter than Rondo, especially from down range.

We haven't had a Carlos since Carlos Clark have we?  But that is going back to the 80 so some may not recall him.

[Celtics18]

I've really started to fall for Carlos Arroyo after watching him play as a Celtic for just a couple of games.

He's got natural playmaking ability that we haven't seen in a backup pg since Rondo joined this team.  He can score some, handle the ball, set guys up, run the show.  I think his addition, with some decent scorers in West, Green, Davis and Krstic will really help that second unit run more smoothly offensively. 

His lack of size and athleticism are his drawbacks, but unlike the OP, I think this guy's got a ton of heart and grittiness to his game to help him compensate for that.

As to the Miami situation, he was simply all wrong for that team.  They want point guards who are spot up shooters so Lebron and D-Wade can take care of the ball-handling duties. 

Welcome, Carlos. 

 

[P2]

Arroyo is listed at 200lbs and clearly heavier than Rondo.

Rondo is listed at 171, but that was his rookie season. I remember reading shortly before the 07/08 season that he had bulked up and weighed in at 178. Since then, he should've been able to put on mass, and it's also clearly visible. Just compare the pictures. He is probably 185 or 190 right now.

[droopdog7]

 >>>

[droopdog7]

And I don't mean that in a good way (though not a terrible way either).  All of the things I have been reading about Arroyo lately though seem over the top.  He is the 3rd best PG on this team and really shoudn't get more than spot minutes in the playoff (assuming West is back and healthy).

Now back to my Rondo light comment.  They are similar in that they are natural PG's, neither of whom can shoot.  Now, I understand that Arroyo has a somewhat better shot.  But don't be fooled, the kid is a below average shooter with below average range.

And obviously he isn't as good a defender, penetrator, distrubuter, or anything else compared to Rondo.  To me, he is essentially a worse version of Rondo and frankly, doesn't provide the kind of change of pace that I would like to see in a back up.

West provides a lot of things that Rondo and Arroyo doesn't.  He is a much better shooter than both of them.  He is bigger.  He can get his own shot better than Arroyo certainly.  He is a steady and underrated defender.  

And most of all, West plays with heart.  He doesn't back down from challenges.  This is probably my biggest fear about Arroyo in that he seems to me like a guy that would back down.  Just a gut feeling. And let's not forget that he was cut from a team for 50-year-old Mike Bibby.

So in the end, I like him as a third PG and as insurance.  And after watching Nate, House, and Bradley play back up PG, I know it is refreshing for fans to see a guy that is actually a PG come in a play.  But West handles the duties more than well enough and he brings skills and mentality that the others do not.

You may be right on most of what you said, but how do you come to the conclusion that Arroyo doesn't play with heart and will back down?  Remember when he led Puerto Rico against Team USA? He had 25 points, 7 assists, and 4 steals in that victory.  I remember that game.  He was all heart.  Hopefully he still has that fire in him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1iW-oqYnMs

You know, that's a great question and one that I don't have a specific answer to. I don't know if I am stereotyping or what. But the more and more I think about it, there are a couple of things that stand out.  

When he was in Miami, he was definitely the weak link on that team.  You could tell that the Celts defended Mia is a way so that Arroyo ended up having to take big shots.  And from what I can tell, he did not do it.

But there is another more sutble aspect of his game that I think would make him a candidate to wilt.  And that is the fact that he can't shoot.  In the playoffs, in a series of games, other teams will find a way to squeeze certain players.  They've done it to Rondo (and will continue to do so).  In the playoffs, teams WILL force Arroyo to take jump shots under pressure.  And when a guy that can't shoot is forced to shoot, in most cases it doesn't turn out well.

And that's the biggest difference between the playoffs and an international game.  In the playoffs, guys and teams are scouted to death.  And weaknesses, such as they exist, are exposed.  

In many cases, the biggest difference between those that step up and those that don't in actually having the ability to get it done.  Thats pretty much why I think he will wilt.  Arroyo will be forced into uncomfortable situation, and most guys don't respond well in those cases.    

[MBunge]

But there is another more sutble aspect of his game that I think would make him a candidate to wilt.  And that is the fact that he can't shoot. 

Arroyo's career averages are 44% from the field and 33% from 3.  Delonte is 45% and 37%.  DWest is a better shooter, but Arroyo is also a much better jump shooter than Rondo.

Mike

[GranTur]

Rondo looks 180 to me. Carlos is definitely a little bulkier.

Funny thing is lately Rondo has had more trouble with faster PGs instead of heavier PGs!

Rondo gambles way too much when defending the pick and roll. Otherwise his gambling is much justified in 1-on-1 and help defense.

[clover]

Arroyo is listed at 200lbs and clearly heavier than Rondo.

Rondo is listed at 171, but that was his rookie season. I remember reading shortly before the 07/08 season that he had bulked up and weighed in at 178. Since then, he should've been able to put on mass, and it's also clearly visible. Just compare the pictures. He is probably 185 or 190 right now.

Arroyo is listed at 200, West at 180.  I think that's what the OP was thinking of:  Arroyo is clearly bigger (though listed as an inch shorter) than West.

[droopdog7]

But there is another more sutble aspect of his game that I think would make him a candidate to wilt.  And that is the fact that he can't shoot. 

Arroyo's career averages are 44% from the field and 33% from 3.  Delonte is 45% and 37%.  DWest is a better shooter, but Arroyo is also a much better jump shooter than Rondo.

Mike

As we all know, shooting numbers can be incredibly deceiving, as I am guessing that Rondo has better shooting numbers than both of them.  Now if you are quoting actual "shooting" numbers, then those can be deceiving as well.  Lots of guys are left wide open because teams KNOW they can't shoot.  So they shoot a respectable percentage when a good shooter would have a much higher percentage in the same scenerio.

Anyway, I have seen enough to Arroyo's shot to know that it is below average, even though it is much better than Rondo's.

[hpantazo]

But there is another more sutble aspect of his game that I think would make him a candidate to wilt.  And that is the fact that he can't shoot. 

Arroyo's career averages are 44% from the field and 33% from 3.  Delonte is 45% and 37%.  DWest is a better shooter, but Arroyo is also a much better jump shooter than Rondo.

Mike

As we all know, shooting numbers can be incredibly deceiving, as I am guessing that Rondo has better shooting numbers than both of them.  Now if you are quoting actual "shooting" numbers, then those can be deceiving as well.  Lots of guys are left wide open because teams KNOW they can't shoot.  So they shoot a respectable percentage when a good shooter would have a much higher percentage in the same scenerio.

Anyway, I have seen enough to Arroyo's shot to know that it is below average, even though it is much better than Rondo's.

watching Arroyo for a few games now, I found myself often thinking that in terms of shooting, the only difference between him and Rondo is that Arroyo actually takes the jump shots without hesitation, which in itself helps the offense a lot, but he doesn't seem to shoot much better than Rondo.

[BballTim]

But there is another more sutble aspect of his game that I think would make him a candidate to wilt.  And that is the fact that he can't shoot. 

Arroyo's career averages are 44% from the field and 33% from 3.  Delonte is 45% and 37%.  DWest is a better shooter, but Arroyo is also a much better jump shooter than Rondo.

Mike

As we all know, shooting numbers can be incredibly deceiving, as I am guessing that Rondo has better shooting numbers than both of them.  Now if you are quoting actual "shooting" numbers, then those can be deceiving as well.  Lots of guys are left wide open because teams KNOW they can't shoot.  So they shoot a respectable percentage when a good shooter would have a much higher percentage in the same scenerio.

Anyway, I have seen enough to Arroyo's shot to know that it is below average, even though it is much better than Rondo's.

watching Arroyo for a few games now, I found myself often thinking that in terms of shooting, the only difference between him and Rondo is that Arroyo actually takes the jump shots without hesitation, which in itself helps the offense a lot, but he doesn't seem to shoot much better than Rondo.

  I might be alone in this but I don't really think that, if you're going to miss your outside shots, taking them without hesitation helps the offense. If that were the case then our offense would be greatly aided by BBD bricking outside shots, but again I'm doubtful of this.