I second that emotion...

[Marcus13]

Something is up. He was starting to attack more and more just before the Perk trade.
He dribbled the shot clock out numerous times tonight. His defense has been slipping the past few games.

if that doesnt sum it up, i dont know what does.

[ACF]

Something is up. He was starting to attack more and more just before the Perk trade.
He dribbled the shot clock out numerous times tonight. His defense has been slipping the past few games.

if that doesnt sum it up, i dont know what does.

So, what is it you're getting at? Is he trying to force a trade? What?

[Chris]

We went through this a couple days ago, so forgive me for repeating myself...but this is how Rondo plays 90% of the time. 

I actually don't think he was bad last night.  The problem is, no one else was moving offensively, and the shots weren't falling.  I mean, if KG just hit shots at his normal pace, he would have had another 5-6 assists.

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

This is just who Rondo is.  He will make some great defensive plays, and he will work well within the team defense when everyone else is working hard and rotating correctly.  He will also put passes right where they need to be, and will get to the hoop but rarely finish strong.  But he is not going to break down and stop guys one on one, he is not going to stick to his man and prevent them from getting open 3's, and he is not going to consistently finish, whether from outside, or at the hoop.

Hopefully he improves on those things, but there is nothing different about his game last night than from his game a month ago. 

[Sizzlack]

We went through this a couple days ago, so forgive me for repeating myself...but this is how Rondo plays 90% of the time. 

I actually don't think he was bad last night.  The problem is, no one else was moving offensively, and the shots weren't falling.  I mean, if KG just hit shots at his normal pace, he would have had another 5-6 assists.

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

This is just who Rondo is.  He will make some great defensive plays, and he will work well within the team defense when everyone else is working hard and rotating correctly.  He will also put passes right where they need to be, and will get to the hoop but rarely finish strong.  But he is not going to break down and stop guys one on one, he is not going to stick to his man and prevent them from getting open 3's, and he is not going to consistently finish, whether from outside, or at the hoop.

Hopefully he improves on those things, but there is nothing different about his game last night than from his game a month ago. 

Well said, people just look at his assist totals and think every one of his 11-12 he averages are for lay ups. Like every pass he makes is on the highlight real, and if he isn't driving hard and making crazy, dish out passes, then he's "not trying."

Truth of the matter is, the LARGE majority of his assists are just getting the ball to the right person for a good shot. Last night, that was KG a LOT, but those shots just didn't happen to fall.

And Chris is 100% right, KG hits his usual, 50% or so from the field (And none of the shots were forced, and they were all open, he missed 6-7 from the top of the key that I'd say he hits at at a mid 60s clip more often than not, it's his bread and butter shot) and Rondo finishes this game with 13 or so assists, easy, and the Celtics probably win.

Nothing was different last night, he got the same shots for his guys he gets every night, they just didn't happen to go in.

[BballTim]

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

  I just don't see a lot of this. For much of the game Rondo was picking up Williams well outside the three point line. Williams would dribble right, dribble left and generally call for someone to come out and set a pick on Rondo to get where he wanted to go. Complain about Rondo getting caught in picks or not getting back to Mo quick enough when he was helping defend whoever Krstic was on but I don't see how that really translates into not keeping his man in front of him. And I'd also say that you seem to be one of the few people who didn't notice that Rondo's play was worse than usual last night.

[Chris]

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

  I just don't see a lot of this. For much of the game Rondo was picking up Williams well outside the three point line. Williams would dribble right, dribble left and generally call for someone to come out and set a pick on Rondo to get where he wanted to go. Complain about Rondo getting caught in picks or not getting back to Mo quick enough when he was helping defend whoever Krstic was on but I don't see how that really translates into not keeping his man in front of him. And I'd also say that you seem to be one of the few people who didn't notice that Rondo's play was worse than usual last night.

Honestly, we have discussed this enough.  I think we just need to agree to disagree on our analysis of Rondos defense, because your arguments are not going to change what I see, and vice versa.

[BballTim]

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

  I just don't see a lot of this. For much of the game Rondo was picking up Williams well outside the three point line. Williams would dribble right, dribble left and generally call for someone to come out and set a pick on Rondo to get where he wanted to go. Complain about Rondo getting caught in picks or not getting back to Mo quick enough when he was helping defend whoever Krstic was on but I don't see how that really translates into not keeping his man in front of him. And I'd also say that you seem to be one of the few people who didn't notice that Rondo's play was worse than usual last night.

Honestly, we have discussed this enough.  I think we just need to agree to disagree on our analysis of Rondos defense, because your arguments are not going to change what I see, and vice versa.

  Agree that we disagree, but where exactly does that leave the discussion?

[Chris]

As for defensively, Rondo always plays defense this way.  He is overly aggressive, but rarely breaks down to keep his man in front of him.  And since the C's bigs were way too concerned with not getting posterized by Griffin, they were doing a terrible job helping on the perimeter, which put Rondos inability to keep guys in front of him in sharp contrast. 

  I just don't see a lot of this. For much of the game Rondo was picking up Williams well outside the three point line. Williams would dribble right, dribble left and generally call for someone to come out and set a pick on Rondo to get where he wanted to go. Complain about Rondo getting caught in picks or not getting back to Mo quick enough when he was helping defend whoever Krstic was on but I don't see how that really translates into not keeping his man in front of him. And I'd also say that you seem to be one of the few people who didn't notice that Rondo's play was worse than usual last night.

Honestly, we have discussed this enough.  I think we just need to agree to disagree on our analysis of Rondos defense, because your arguments are not going to change what I see, and vice versa.

  Agree that we disagree, but where exactly does that leave the discussion?

It leaves it that no one is changing there mind, so I am not going to argue with you about it anymore. 

[droponov]

Rondo is one of the best defensive PGs in the league keeping people in front of him in isolations. I think people just have unrealistic expectations about what PGs are supposed to do. The defense at the point of attack these days is about pressure, not containment. That's out of the window without help. Boston fans shouldn't allow Tommy Heinhson and his absurd "keep them between your knees" theories affect their judgement.

Yesterday, the team was doing a terrible job hedging on the pick'n'roll. You can't expect the ball-handlers defenders to stop the screenball game by themselves.

[ScoobyDoo]

I want to reiterate, there is no other point guard in the league I'd rather have than Rondo; not one. He just does so many things in different categories that "help you win games".

But people are often times the victims / targets of their own success and the expectations created by that success.

In Rondo's case, it is clearly evident he is an elite athlete, even at the NBA level. To me he is in the top 5% to 10% category in terms of athleticism in the NBA. He is with the Blake Griffin's, the the KG in his prime, etc.

So to tell me that an all defensive guy with that type of defensive athleticism can be made to look like  juco player by Mo Willimas, it is unnacceptable. Rondo has the athletic and defensive ability to stymie almost anyone in the league at the point position, regardless of picks, screens, etc.

Our expectations, based on Rondo's abilities are higher than that for him. To see that defesnive performance out of Krstic, or Luke Harangody, Von Wafer, etc...it's not as frustrating. But Rondo's obvious talent demands better than that..

I've played alot of ball and watched much more. His defense and all the open threes for Mo last night, weren't about him getting picked off, it was about lack of aggressive effort getting through picks and a pure lack of determination to stay in front of his man. I know people say that's just how Rondo plays D, I think that's a cop out.

I think KG, Bruce Bowen, Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper, Dennis Johnson, Tony Allen - all guys I consider elite defenders ( obviously some at higher levels than others I listed) all did their absolute best to try and stay in front of their man. It's basketball 101.

The greatest defenders don't let their guys get started and you don't see them swinging from behind at their guy 10-15 times a night.

When Rondo plays that kind of D, it's called Defensive laziness.

He does the same thing in the open court alot as well. You are supposed to "stop" the ball when it's coming to you on the break, not take a casual swing at the defender as he screeches past you. You try to hedge him left or right, slow him down and try to create time for your other defenders to catch up. Alot of times Rondo will just take a swipe at the guy.

Anyway, get him some rest, hopefully he's not injured.

The kid's a stud and will be an all time Celtic by the time he's done - but he wears that crown because of it and he needs to show up every night or sit down if he doesn't want to.      

[BballTim]

I've played alot of ball and watched much more. His defense and all the open threes for Mo last night, weren't about him getting picked off, it was about lack of aggressive effort getting through picks and a pure lack of determination to stay in front of his man. I know people say that's just how Rondo plays D, I think that's a cop out.

  The first three Mo made I'm pretty sure Rondo got tripped when he tried to get past the pick. On the second one I thought he got caught between two players in the lane and couldn't get free to close out Mo.

[ScoobyDoo]

Possible BBall, maybe it simply was just an off night where you're getting tripped up, the ball's bouncing off your foot,
etc...

It just seems he gets apathetic sometimes, but he's pretty stone faced out there so maybe it appears this way.

Look, he's certianly entitled to have off nights, they happen rarely for him.

Just harder to watch with him because the expectation, for good reasons that he has earned, are so high.

I'm looking forward to a bounce back game and some rest for him with Arroyo and hopefully DWest back on board soon. 

[BballTim]

Possible BBall, maybe it simply was just an off night where you're getting tripped up, the ball's bouncing off your foot,
etc...

It just seems he gets apathetic sometimes, but he's pretty stone faced out there so maybe it appears this way.

Look, he's certianly entitled to have off nights, they happen rarely for him.

Just harder to watch with him because the expectation, for good reasons that he has earned, are so high.

I'm looking forward to a bounce back game and some rest for him with Arroyo and hopefully DWest back on board soon. 

  I certainly agree that he had an off night, btw.

[zerophase]

The Mo Williams 3pt foul was ridiculous. He didn't even touch him on the replay.

[Chris]

The Mo Williams 3pt foul was ridiculous. He didn't even touch him on the replay.

But he fell down!  How could he fall down if he wasn't touched?  Your crazy!