After heats latest skid, is Derrek Rose clear favorite for MVP?

[PosImpos]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

[KG_ended_Bias]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

Lebron can't even be considered if he averaged 25-10-10 in my book being he has missed every clutch game winning shot this season. MVP's make those shots! Throw Lebron out of the discussion.

[Donoghus]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

To me, MVP is more than a stats thing. 

[RJ87]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

To me, MVP is more than a stats thing. 

Agreed. I always thought of MVP in terms of what the team would be without that player - to me, the Magic would really struggle without Dwight Howard... The Bulls would still be good, but Rose has really elevated them this season. So D12 and Rose are the two favorites in my book, with the edge going to Dwight.

[soap07]

Someone explain to me why Dirk Nowitzki keeps gettin disrespected in this conversation? Dont they have a better record than the bulls? and the mavs went 2-7 without him.

Because Dirk's stats are even more pedestrian than Rose's.

23 and 6.6 on 53% shooting? That doesn't scream MVP. He's 8th in the league in PER. He's 6th in Win Shares/48 if you're into that.

I get that he's 2-7, but it's not other MVP candidates' faults that they didn't get injured so they could show how much they mean to a team.

For the stat guys out there, did anyone here know that Dirk led the NBA in Win Shares/48 for three straight years (2005-2007)? That surprised me a bit.

Since when is 23 points on a slower pace team at .600+ TS pedestrian?

His stats are much better than Roses offensively, and its is offense that Rose's MVP case rests on.

Both are dragging their teams to their current level of offensive rating, but Dirk is dragging his team farther.

Pedestrian for an MVP candidate.

Come on - Dirk is really only dominant at one thing, scoring. And this year, Dirk barely cracks the top-ten in PPG. That's great that he's incredibly efficient at shooting the ball. But being an extremely efficient shooter doesn't make you an MVP - not when Dwight Howard also has a 62% TS, and is also a dominant rebounder/defender (and is also scoring slightly more per-game).

He's having a great year by his standards, but for an MVP? It's pedestrian. If the only thing that really stands out is his TS% - (For example, not being top-5 in rebounding, defense, points, PER, Win Shares, etc....he's not an elite passer either), it's stretching to call him anything more than a great scorer when compared to everyone else.

Rose isn't a great candidate either. An MVP shooting 44% from the field? Meh.

Howard has gaudy numbers -  but an MVP from a team that is closer to not having home-court in a horrible conference in the first round than to the top seed? No thank you.

LeBron has the gaudiest numbers of all - and I still think if the Heat finish strong that he'll get it.

[soap07]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

To me, MVP is more than a stats thing. 

Agreed. I always thought of MVP in terms of what the team would be without that player - to me, the Magic would really struggle without Dwight Howard... The Bulls would still be good, but Rose has really elevated them this season. So D12 and Rose are the two favorites in my book, with the edge going to Dwight.

The thing is - the Magic struggle with Howard too.

[soap07]

also since we're on the topic of mvp's, HOW did kobe get mvp over kg in 08? That was bull

Paul or LeBron should've won that year. Straight lifetime achievement award.

[RJ87]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

To me, MVP is more than a stats thing. 

Agreed. I always thought of MVP in terms of what the team would be without that player - to me, the Magic would really struggle without Dwight Howard... The Bulls would still be good, but Rose has really elevated them this season. So D12 and Rose are the two favorites in my book, with the edge going to Dwight.

The thing is - the Magic struggle with Howard too.

But they're a 4th seed playoff team with him, I'd have SERIOUS doubts about their ability to do that with hin.

[soap07]

I don't know - leading your team to a 4th seed in a terrible conference - I'm just not dying to give him the MVP. It's not like he has no teammates around him.

[PosImpos]

After looking at the stats, I have to say that the only good choices for MVP are Lebron or Dwight Howard.

To me, MVP is more than a stats thing.  

To me, it should go to the player who is the best player - or at least the one who does the most for his team.  No, it's not all about stats.  But if a player isn't even one of the top 5-10 players statistically, I don't see how you can really make an argument that they do the most for their team.

Rose is not in the Top 5 in any major statistical category.  He's not even in the top 10 in win shares, EWA, VA, or PER.  You would have a tough time making a solid argument that Derrick Rose is even one of the Top 5 best players in the league.  He might not even be the best player at his position.  Heck, I could make an argument that he's maybe only the 3rd best at his position!

The only category in which Rose passes the test for MVP is in the "ooh and ahh" category.  He's a highlight reel player with a large fan base and a notable name (#1 overall pick for a big city team).  That, in my opinion, is the only reason he's getting such serious MVP consideration.

[Witch-King]

I will say this -- during the Heat slump D. Rose certainly has gotten his fare share of time to shine.

While I wouldn't consider him the clear favorite by any means, the fact that Rose has led a team where he is the only All-Star starter past the Heatles in the win-loss column during this stretch of games doesn't hurt his chances. Speaking of which, the Bulls had another impressive win tonight over the Charlotte Bobcats.

[chambers]

jump on espn NBA and check out the d rose shrine all over the front page after MJ touts him as MVP.

[PosImpos]

Let's compare two players who I think are very similar, shall we?  One is being touted as the clear MVP and the best PG in the league, the other is never really in either conversation.


Rose:

PPG - 24.7
APG - 8.0
RPG - 4.3
STLPG - 1.1
PER - 22.97
FG% - .441
3P% - .337
FT% - .845
FTM-FTA - 5.4-6.3
MPG - 37.7

Westbrook:


PPG - 22.3
APG - 8.5
RPG - 4.8
STLPG - 1.7
PER - 23.76
FG% - .442
3P% - .329
FT% - .834
FTM-FTA - 6.7-8.0
MPG - 35.4


Overall, Westbrook puts up better numbers in fewer minutes.  He scores fewer points, but not by much, despite the fact that he shares the ball with Kevin Durant.

I'm not saying that Westbrook should be MVP . . . but neither should Derrick Rose.  I just think it's really silly that Rose gets the amount of attention he does compared to Westbrook when any objective view of the situation would see them as extremely similar players (especially in terms of production).  

Westbrook might not play the kind of defense Rose has been playing (I don't know - though he does get more steals), but I'm sure if you put Westbrook under Thibs, he would improve on defense in the same way Rose has this year.

If you replaced Rose with Westbrook, I am confident that the Bulls would be just as good.  It should not be possible to make that kind of argument about a legit MVP candidate.

[chambers]

Let's compare two players who I think are very similar, shall we?  One is being touted as the clear MVP and the best PG in the league, the other is never really in either conversation.


Rose:

PPG - 24.7
APG - 8.0
RPG - 4.3
STLPG - 1.1
PER - 22.97
FG% - .441
3P% - .337
FT% - .845
FTM-FTA - 5.4-6.3
MPG - 37.7

Westbrook:


PPG - 22.3
APG - 8.5
RPG - 4.8
STLPG - 1.7
PER - 23.76
FG% - .442
3P% - .329
FT% - .834
FTM-FTA - 6.7-8.0
MPG - 35.4


Overall, Westbrook puts up better numbers in fewer minutes.  He scores fewer points, but not by much, despite the fact that he shares the ball with Kevin Durant.

I'm not saying that Westbrook should be MVP . . . but neither should Derrick Rose.  I just think it's really silly that Rose gets the amount of attention he does compared to Westbrook when any objective view of the situation would see them as extremely similar players (especially in terms of production).  

Westbrook might not play the kind of defense Rose has been playing (I don't know - though he does get more steals), but I'm sure if you put Westbrook under Thibs, he would improve on defense in the same way Rose has this year.

If you replaced Rose with Westbrook, I am confident that the Bulls would be just as good.  It should not be possible to make that kind of argument about a legit MVP candidate.

this is partly true, about replacing rose with westbrook.
I think the reason rose is so valuable to this team is his ability to get to the hole and draw defenders and give his bigs alot of chances at offensive put back even if he does miss the shot.
I guess the fact is that the bulls have been winning, and without rose, they basically wouldn't be anything close to what they are with now.
He's the reason that are number one in the east now.
Their defense is awesome, their bigs are doing a great job, but without him they are like the Milwaukee Bucks or even worse.

[Marcus13]

I think Rose is the MVP now - if the Bulls can be the #1 seed going into the playoffs, I don't even know who his competition would be