The Future at Center, Who is it?

[Papatrichs]

In a perfect world I would choose Oden. But given his history and our training staff's history I'd rather choose a center ala-Perk and a go shop a future HoF SG or PF.

[tyrone biggums]

What do you mean we KNOW it was going to cost such and such? How can we KNOW such a thing?  They hadn't even entered negotiations yet. We don't know what the market would have borne out for Perk. We know what the Thunder would pay. I highly doubt he really really wanted to go to the thunder for an extra couple mill. Maybe once he was traded. But if he hadn't been?

Well he said he told his agent last year that OKC was one of his top choices. So if the Celtics didn't pay him what he wanted than yes, I could see Perk leaving to go to a team that is on the rise and will be a contender for years to come.

Then why was he so devastated by the trade? The man cried for hours. Does that sound like a guy who had just gotten everything he really wanted? Or just some of the things he said he wanted?

Victor Martinez cried too when he was traded from the Indians...its a business and a natural shock when you've been with a team your whole career some people handle it different. He made it clear he was testing free agency unless someone met his asking price. His price was always going to be in the 4 years 30 million range which hes very entitled to go out and get. But say he signs back with Boston at 4/30 and gives them a 4 million a year discount, that's still a lot of money to tie up on a role player that could be used on a star center. I don't know what isn't clear about all this! If Perk was open about considering options than why couldn't the Celtics.

He wasn't the future we all made him out to be here, once the Three retire who would be the star? Rondo? With our elite core of Rondo Perk and BBD plus draft picks we'd be right back to where we were in the mid 90's. Howard is the much better option, I would even settle for Greg Oden whose ceiling is light years ahead of Perkins if he could just stay healthy.

[Kenhov]

WHy not Roy Hibbert ?

[tyrone biggums]

WHy not Roy Hibbert ?

Hibbert would be a [dang] fine addition, I just don't think Indiana will allow him to go. Hes still on his rookie contract so its a little different than the Howard situation. But hes a talent.

[Eja117]

What do you mean we KNOW it was going to cost such and such? How can we KNOW such a thing?  They hadn't even entered negotiations yet. We don't know what the market would have borne out for Perk. We know what the Thunder would pay. I highly doubt he really really wanted to go to the thunder for an extra couple mill. Maybe once he was traded. But if he hadn't been?

Well he said he told his agent last year that OKC was one of his top choices. So if the Celtics didn't pay him what he wanted than yes, I could see Perk leaving to go to a team that is on the rise and will be a contender for years to come.

Then why was he so devastated by the trade? The man cried for hours. Does that sound like a guy who had just gotten everything he really wanted? Or just some of the things he said he wanted?

Victor Martinez cried too when he was traded from the Indians...its a business and a natural shock when you've been with a team your whole career some people handle it different. He made it clear he was testing free agency unless someone met his asking price. His price was always going to be in the 4 years 30 million range which hes very entitled to go out and get. But say he signs back with Boston at 4/30 and gives them a 4 million a year discount, that's still a lot of money to tie up on a role player that could be used on a star center. I don't know what isn't clear about all this! If Perk was open about considering options than why couldn't the Celtics.

He wasn't the future we all made him out to be here, once the Three retire who would be the star? Rondo? With our elite core of Rondo Perk and BBD plus draft picks we'd be right back to where we were in the mid 90's. Howard is the much better option, I would even settle for Greg Oden whose ceiling is light years ahead of Perkins if he could just stay healthy.

According to all the capologists on this thread that money wasn't going to be used on D Howard. It was going to be KG and PP's money coming off the books.

Again. A long time ago I didn't say the trade was bad.  Just that I don't buy the reasoning. I think the trade is more about Jeff Green and Krstic and getting healthy bodies for now and the future. I don't think it's about Howard. And it's simply not true that signing Perk to a 6ish deal would make it impossible to bring in Howard. Maybe it wouldn't be a good use of money. But that's different

[snively]

Just an example:

LA gets Howard and JJ Redick

Orlando gets Bynum and Odom

That works...its just an example though...but LA can make it work. Money is not going to be a problem for Dwight...he will get a max contract. Boston can't beat LA's weather, glamour and the chance to be a star in a city like LA (bigger market).

Kobe, Pau and Howard...that's a pretty good core...even if Kobe loses a step or two, he'll still be good....and Jerry Buss has a way of taking care of his stars...ugh..sleazebag.

Of course the Lakers could make it work on the trade machine, but why would the Magic do that? 

For the same reasons Cavs did a S&T for LeBron even though they hated him...its better to get something in return than not get anything at all.

Not if the something is that expensive and inflexible (draft picks are super flexible and always desirable).  If nothing equates to superior lottery positioning and cap flexibility than it can be preferable to something.

[The DarkPassenger]

WHy not Roy Hibbert ?

Hibbert would be a [dang] fine addition, I just don't think Indiana will allow him to go. Hes still on his rookie contract so its a little different than the Howard situation. But hes a talent.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9198

Not a bad plan B or C but the link explains his salary situation.

[ejk3489]

What do you mean we KNOW it was going to cost such and such? How can we KNOW such a thing?  They hadn't even entered negotiations yet. We don't know what the market would have borne out for Perk. We know what the Thunder would pay. I highly doubt he really really wanted to go to the thunder for an extra couple mill. Maybe once he was traded. But if he hadn't been?

Well he said he told his agent last year that OKC was one of his top choices. So if the Celtics didn't pay him what he wanted than yes, I could see Perk leaving to go to a team that is on the rise and will be a contender for years to come.

Then why was he so devastated by the trade? The man cried for hours. Does that sound like a guy who had just gotten everything he really wanted? Or just some of the things he said he wanted?

He was devastated because he was with the team for eight years and loved his teammates like they were his brothers.

I'm not trying to say he would've definitely gone to the team with the highest bidder, but it's not a stretch to think he would've tried to get the most money out of his first big contract. It would've been a smart move too considering his history with injuries.

[outcry]

What do you mean we KNOW it was going to cost such and such? How can we KNOW such a thing?  They hadn't even entered negotiations yet. We don't know what the market would have borne out for Perk. We know what the Thunder would pay. I highly doubt he really really wanted to go to the thunder for an extra couple mill. Maybe once he was traded. But if he hadn't been?

Well he said he told his agent last year that OKC was one of his top choices. So if the Celtics didn't pay him what he wanted than yes, I could see Perk leaving to go to a team that is on the rise and will be a contender for years to come.

Then why was he so devastated by the trade? The man cried for hours. Does that sound like a guy who had just gotten everything he really wanted? Or just some of the things he said he wanted?

Victor Martinez cried too when he was traded from the Indians...its a business and a natural shock when you've been with a team your whole career some people handle it different. He made it clear he was testing free agency unless someone met his asking price. His price was always going to be in the 4 years 30 million range which hes very entitled to go out and get. But say he signs back with Boston at 4/30 and gives them a 4 million a year discount, that's still a lot of money to tie up on a role player that could be used on a star center. I don't know what isn't clear about all this! If Perk was open about considering options than why couldn't the Celtics.

He wasn't the future we all made him out to be here, once the Three retire who would be the star? Rondo? With our elite core of Rondo Perk and BBD plus draft picks we'd be right back to where we were in the mid 90's. Howard is the much better option, I would even settle for Greg Oden whose ceiling is light years ahead of Perkins if he could just stay healthy.

According to all the capologists on this thread that money wasn't going to be used on D Howard. It was going to be KG and PP's money coming off the books.

Again. A long time ago I didn't say the trade was bad.  Just that I don't buy the reasoning. I think the trade is more about Jeff Green and Krstic and getting healthy bodies for now and the future. I don't think it's about Howard. And it's simply not true that signing Perk to a 6ish deal would make it impossible to bring in Howard. Maybe it wouldn't be a good use of money. But that's different

My goodness are you exhausting. A lot of posters in here have said that Perkins and the Howard situation is totally different in terms of cap space. The Celtics decided to trade Perkins because they wanted to use that money more efficiently. It's not wise at all to give a role player more than the MLE. That's all. It doesn't take a "capologist" to figure out that the Celtics will have enough room to sign Howard after the 11/12 season. It takes two minutes of research.

[tyrone biggums]

I mean if you look at the sign and trade implications of Howard look at the chips we have.

-Clippers 1st rounder (top 10 protected till 2016)
-Jeff Green (Possible S&T)
-BBD (Possible S&T)
-Avery Bradley

A lot better than a few weeks ago in this department.

[barefacedmonk]

Just an example:

LA gets Howard and JJ Redick

Orlando gets Bynum and Odom

That works...its just an example though...but LA can make it work. Money is not going to be a problem for Dwight...he will get a max contract. Boston can't beat LA's weather, glamour and the chance to be a star in a city like LA (bigger market).

Kobe, Pau and Howard...that's a pretty good core...even if Kobe loses a step or two, he'll still be good....and Jerry Buss has a way of taking care of his stars...ugh..sleazebag.

Of course the Lakers could make it work on the trade machine, but why would the Magic do that? 

For the same reasons Cavs did a S&T for LeBron even though they hated him...its better to get something in return than not get anything at all.

Not if the something is that expensive and inflexible (draft picks are super flexible and always desirable).  If nothing equates to superior lottery positioning and cap flexibility than it can be preferable to something.

Bynum is no scrub. He is a top 10 center in the league right now. A top ten center will always command that kind of money...Orlando will be foolish to reject Bynum if Dwight decides that he is going to play in LA.

[Kenhov]

WHy not Roy Hibbert ?

Hibbert would be a [dang] fine addition, I just don't think Indiana will allow him to go. Hes still on his rookie contract so its a little different than the Howard situation. But hes a talent.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9198

Not a bad plan B or C but the link explains his salary situation.

Another player id love to have is Cousins. I think he needs alot of tough love and an organisation which treats him like a project. But Sac would need to want to get rid of him.

[snively]

What do you mean we KNOW it was going to cost such and such? How can we KNOW such a thing?  They hadn't even entered negotiations yet. We don't know what the market would have borne out for Perk. We know what the Thunder would pay. I highly doubt he really really wanted to go to the thunder for an extra couple mill. Maybe once he was traded. But if he hadn't been?

Well he said he told his agent last year that OKC was one of his top choices. So if the Celtics didn't pay him what he wanted than yes, I could see Perk leaving to go to a team that is on the rise and will be a contender for years to come.

Then why was he so devastated by the trade? The man cried for hours. Does that sound like a guy who had just gotten everything he really wanted? Or just some of the things he said he wanted?

Victor Martinez cried too when he was traded from the Indians...its a business and a natural shock when you've been with a team your whole career some people handle it different. He made it clear he was testing free agency unless someone met his asking price. His price was always going to be in the 4 years 30 million range which hes very entitled to go out and get. But say he signs back with Boston at 4/30 and gives them a 4 million a year discount, that's still a lot of money to tie up on a role player that could be used on a star center. I don't know what isn't clear about all this! If Perk was open about considering options than why couldn't the Celtics.

He wasn't the future we all made him out to be here, once the Three retire who would be the star? Rondo? With our elite core of Rondo Perk and BBD plus draft picks we'd be right back to where we were in the mid 90's. Howard is the much better option, I would even settle for Greg Oden whose ceiling is light years ahead of Perkins if he could just stay healthy.

According to all the capologists on this thread that money wasn't going to be used on D Howard. It was going to be KG and PP's money coming off the books.

Again. A long time ago I didn't say the trade was bad.  Just that I don't buy the reasoning. I think the trade is more about Jeff Green and Krstic and getting healthy bodies for now and the future. I don't think it's about Howard. And it's simply not true that signing Perk to a 6ish deal would make it impossible to bring in Howard. Maybe it wouldn't be a good use of money. But that's different

Do you honestly think we could get Perk at 6ish when an older, less reputable Brendan Haywood signed for 6/52, and the Thunder signed him for 4/35 before he even got healthy enough to suit up? 

I agree that this trade was done for healthy bodies this year and the future, but I don't think Green and Krstic were necessarily the future part of the trade.

Do you honestly think Danny is setting up a future of Rondo, Pierce, Green, Krstic and Big Baby Davis with a bunch of rookies filling in the gaps?  I highly doubt we traded for the Thunder's achilles heel (an undersized, overmatched starting frontcourt) just so we could lock them into our core long-term. We wanted healthy, offensive-oriented bench players in the short-term, an intriguing asset in Jeff Green, the pick and the same cap flexibility we'd have had if we let Perk walk.

[snively]

Just an example:

LA gets Howard and JJ Redick

Orlando gets Bynum and Odom

That works...its just an example though...but LA can make it work. Money is not going to be a problem for Dwight...he will get a max contract. Boston can't beat LA's weather, glamour and the chance to be a star in a city like LA (bigger market).

Kobe, Pau and Howard...that's a pretty good core...even if Kobe loses a step or two, he'll still be good....and Jerry Buss has a way of taking care of his stars...ugh..sleazebag.

Of course the Lakers could make it work on the trade machine, but why would the Magic do that? 

For the same reasons Cavs did a S&T for LeBron even though they hated him...its better to get something in return than not get anything at all.

Not if the something is that expensive and inflexible (draft picks are super flexible and always desirable).  If nothing equates to superior lottery positioning and cap flexibility than it can be preferable to something.

Bynum is no scrub. He is a top 10 center in the league right now. A top ten center will always command that kind of money...Orlando will be foolish to reject Bynum if Dwight decides that he is going to play in LA.

I didn't say he was a scrub.  I said he wasn't worth what he'd command.  He's in the no man's land of too good to be affordable but not good enough to build around. 

And Howard has no leverage to force a trade to LA.  They have no cap space.  Much different scenario than Anthony was in with Denver.  Orlando would be foolish to be strong-armed into an unfavorable trade when they have the leverage.

[barefacedmonk]

Bynum is no scrub. He is a top 10 center in the league right now. A top ten center will always command that kind of money...Orlando will be foolish to reject Bynum if Dwight decides that he is going to play in LA.

I didn't say he was a scrub.  I said he wasn't worth what he'd command.  He's in the no man's land of too good to be affordable but not good enough to build around. 

And Howard has no leverage to force a trade to LA.  They have no cap space.  Much different scenario than Anthony was in with Denver.  Orlando would be foolish to be strong-armed into an unfavorable trade when they have the leverage.

After the LeBron and Carmelo drama, you still think Dwight won't be able to choose LA if he decides to play for them? NBA is a league of superstars now...owners have no leverage. They risk losing more by not giving in to a superstar's wishes than they gain by going against it. Hopefully the new CBA will be able to rectify that.