The BBD, Murphy, Krstic and Perk Debate

[Lucky17]

Ray Allen's career 3 PT percentage: 39.8%
Troy Murphy's career 3 PT percentage: 39.1%

That's big.

[PosImpos]

If a guy played 5 minutes per game and never attempted any shots except for put-backs, and made those shots about 2/3 of the time, and also hardly ever went to the free throw line but made about 80% of those free throws, he'd have a high true shooting percentage.

Does that make him a talented offensive player?

[BballTim]

Obviously, the biggest topic for discussion over the past few days has been the Perkins to OKC trade. A lot of people have argued about it, and it seems as though everyone is unable to come to a consensus on whether or not this trade helped or hurt our chances at a title this year. A large part of this discussion has been Perk's offense, or allegedly, lack thereof.

Here are the career true shooting percentages for the players expected to replace Perk at center (all have averaged similar ppg over recent years):

Krstic: .530
Murphy: .541
Big Baby: .508
Perk: .568


Looking at their actual productivity, it's obvious that Perk has actually been the best offensive player out of the four. Despite the fact that Perk's moves to the basket are ugly, slow, and glacially-paced, the fact of the matter is he gets the ball to go in. You don't get extra points for style in basketball, gentlemen.

  Consider Shaq though. Last year his TS% was .565 and this year it's .655. You'd need to see whether Krstic or Murphy have a jump to their numbers before you can come to any reasonable conclusion.

[fairweatherfan]

Ray Allen's career 3 PT percentage: 39.8%
Troy Murphy's career 3 PT percentage: 39.1%

That's big.

The flexibility that Green and now Murphy give us in our lineups is one of my favorite things about the new roster.  We can throw a lot of different looks out there and adjust to nearly any lineup change an opponent can throw at us.  Or, make them adjust to ours.  Lot of options for Doc going forward.

[droponov]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

[BballTim]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

  Rondo was "benched" because he sprained his ankle in the first half of game 3.

[ballin]

If a guy played 5 minutes per game and never attempted any shots except for put-backs, and made those shots about 2/3 of the time, and also hardly ever went to the free throw line but made about 80% of those free throws, he'd have a high true shooting percentage.

Does that make him a talented offensive player?

straw man fallacy. all of the players in question have played significant minutes. your argument is just pure sophistry

[droponov]

If a guy played 5 minutes per game and never attempted any shots except for put-backs, and made those shots about 2/3 of the time, and also hardly ever went to the free throw line but made about 80% of those free throws, he'd have a high true shooting percentage.

Does that make him a talented offensive player?

straw man fallacy. all of the players in question have played significant minutes. your argument is just pure sophistry

But they didn't score the same volume. It's easy to score with high efficiency when the only shots you're taking are close to the basket and most of them in hand-offs and assisted. However, those shot opportunities are rare and hard to build. Your comparison would make more sense if there wasn't a shot-clock in basketball.

[droponov]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

  Rondo was "benched" because he sprained his ankle in the first half of game 3.

Yeah right. He had other games in the playoffs in which Doc limited him to lower 20s minutes. Also injured? The point is that their relative importance to the team was smaller 2 seasons ago.

[BballTim]

If a guy played 5 minutes per game and never attempted any shots except for put-backs, and made those shots about 2/3 of the time, and also hardly ever went to the free throw line but made about 80% of those free throws, he'd have a high true shooting percentage.

Does that make him a talented offensive player?

straw man fallacy. all of the players in question have played significant minutes. your argument is just pure sophistry

  Dikembe had a higher career TS% than Hakeem.

[Dr H]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

  Rondo was "benched" because he sprained his ankle in the first half of game 3.

Yeah right. He had other games in the playoffs in which Doc limited him to lower 20s minutes. Also injured? The point is that their relative importance to the team was smaller 2 seasons ago.

Wasn't Eddie House taking Rondo's minutes in that series? Especially since he could(and WAS) drilling it from deep and *could* hit FT's.

[BballTim]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

  Rondo was "benched" because he sprained his ankle in the first half of game 3.

Yeah right. He had other games in the playoffs in which Doc limited him to lower 20s minutes. Also injured? The point is that their relative importance to the team was smaller 2 seasons ago.

  So this means, what, that you  didn't see any of the Celts games in the 2008 Finals? Or maybe that you'd agree that Doc benched Perk for the first half of this season because of his offensive woes?

  Did Doc take Rondo out of a few of the '08 playoff games because he was struggling? Yes. Did it happen in the Finals? no.

[BballTim]

From Jackie Macmullans article for espn today.

"Go back and look at crunch time of that 2008 championship run. In the crucial final minutes, Perkins was usually watching from the bench, mostly because of his sketchy free throw shooting and limited offensive skills. Having one non-scorer (Rondo) on the floor was one thing. Having two was not palatable to coach Doc Rivers.

Look it up. In the 2008 Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, Perkins played 14 or fewer minutes in three of the six games and missed Game 5 because of a strained shoulder. His average in the series: 18 minutes a night".

Everyone loves Perk. He a hard worker and a class act. Sorry but your post defies logic.

In all fairness, Rondo was benched a couple of times in that series too. Played 21 minutes in game 3, 17 in game 4 and 14 in game 5. Doc would bench him at the end of close games.

This to say that it was 2 years ago. Rondo and Perkins got better, the big 3 got slightly worse.

  Rondo was "benched" because he sprained his ankle in the first half of game 3.

Yeah right. He had other games in the playoffs in which Doc limited him to lower 20s minutes. Also injured? The point is that their relative importance to the team was smaller 2 seasons ago.

Wasn't Eddie House taking Rondo's minutes in that series? Especially since he could(and WAS) drilling it from deep and *could* hit FT's.

  Rondo played 35 minutes in game 1, 42 in game 2 and 32 in the game 6 blowout. He played much of the first half of game 3 and sprained his ankle. It's easy to argue that the team struggled without him when they were in LA.

  BTW, he played 35+ minutes in 5 of the 6 Det games as well. He struggled mainly against the Cavs that year.

[Marcus13]

I don't see how there is really any debate at all.  It's clear we sacrificed the next two years of contention for the hope of building a contendor again in 2012.

Simple

[BballTim]

I don't see how there is really any debate at all.  It's clear we sacrificed the next two years of contention for the hope of building a contendor again in 2012.

Simple

  There's a debate because many people (if not most) would disagree with your statement.