Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[drza44]

The problem, IMO, is the statement of Perk being one of the "best low-post defenders" in the game.  It may be true, but it's misleading in that it makes that role sound more important than it is.  An impact defensive big man isn't an impact defensive big man because of his 1-on-1 low-post defense, especially in this league.  There are too few volume low-post scorers for this to be a huge difference maker.  Instead, the value in big man defense is in their ability to anchor the defense, providing elite help-defense in the paint.  That is NOT the same thing as low-post defense.

  There's also something to be said for a center that can handle players 1v1 in the post. Any time a team has to send in a second player to help out down low it frees up three point shooting. Orlando is an extreme example of this, but they aren't the only team that does this.

There is something to be said, true, but I think TOO MUCH tends to be said about it with respect to Perk.  Again, we now have years of evidence about how our defense responds with and without Perk.  Essentially, his presence or absence just doesn't play much part overall in our defense.  Yes, the things he provides are nice...but they're also replaceable.

[BballTim]

The problem, IMO, is the statement of Perk being one of the "best low-post defenders" in the game.  It may be true, but it's misleading in that it makes that role sound more important than it is.  An impact defensive big man isn't an impact defensive big man because of his 1-on-1 low-post defense, especially in this league.  There are too few volume low-post scorers for this to be a huge difference maker.  Instead, the value in big man defense is in their ability to anchor the defense, providing elite help-defense in the paint.  That is NOT the same thing as low-post defense.

  There's also something to be said for a center that can handle players 1v1 in the post. Any time a team has to send in a second player to help out down low it frees up three point shooting. Orlando is an extreme example of this, but they aren't the only team that does this.

There is something to be said, true, but I think TOO MUCH tends to be said about it with respect to Perk.  Again, we now have years of evidence about how our defense responds with and without Perk.  Essentially, his presence or absence just doesn't play much part overall in our defense.  Yes, the things he provides are nice...but they're also replaceable.

  I think we have evidence that he's less important to the defense than KG. The year before KG came the defense was just over 3 points better when Perk played. Last year, when KG wasn't always at his best, the defense was again just over 3 points better with Perk playing. I don't have stats for this year but I would suspect that our defense has been close to that much better with Perk in. If you keep track of our defensive efficiency at all our numbers seem to have dropped by a decent amount recently and I don't see any other major changes that would cause it. Perk's not irreplaceable, but it's going to be a tradeoff. We'll be a little worse defensively without him and possibly a worse rebounding team but we'll probably be somewhat better offensively, and our bench would get a boost from Green.

[bbd24]

Bballtim, you can laugh at Shaq beating out Perkins for the center position, but that's essentially what it boils down to. You lose nothing while using Shaq. I'll take a healthy Shaq over a healthy Perkins all day, especially if Perkins is wanting 10M Per. Then add Green and Krstic to the bench squad .

Better team overall.

[BballTim]

Bballtim, you can laugh at Shaq beating out Perkins for the center position, but that's essentially what it boils down to. You lose nothing while using Shaq. I'll take a healthy Shaq over a healthy Perkins all day, especially if Perkins is wanting 10M Per. Then add Green and Krstic to the bench squad .

Better team overall.

  No, I laughed because Shaq *didn't* beat Perk out for the center position, at least according to Doc. When Shaq was playing his best (last year) Doc was saying that Perk was the starter when he was ready. If you can find a quote from Doc that says that Shaq would go back into the starting lineup then your claim will be true. I don't think that you will.

[barefacedmonk]

especially if Perkins is wanting 10M Per.

Where do people keep coming up with this figure? When did CBers become espn insiders?

[bbd24]

especially if Perkins is wanting 10M Per.

Where do people keep coming up with this figure? When did CBers become espn insiders?

Random figure really. All speculation. All you have is the figure he turned down. That's really all you need to go by since Shaq/JO and Krstic can handle that position. He isn't worth more than what he turned down, especially coming off knee surgery and missing as much time as he has.

[bbd24]

Bballtim, I don't need a quote from Doc about who or who isn't starting. The trade said it all.

They think Shaq/JO and Krstic combined can fill what Perkins gave you, and their not losing anything at the position with the move. Instead, you just gained major bench help while still getting production from Center.

And I believe their right.

[indeedproceed]

Its like Harry and the Hendersens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2oUuuwXRFQ

GET OUT OF HERE! CAN'T YOU SEE WE DON'T WANT YOU ANYMORE! LEAVE US ALONE!

[Moranis]

especially if Perkins is wanting 10M Per.

Where do people keep coming up with this figure? When did CBers become espn insiders?

probably because that is what centers like Perk have been getting for years on the open market.  I mean look at the contracts of buys like Biedrins, Dalembert, Chandler, Noah, Darko, Kwame, etc. get.  Big bodies always get a ton of money.  Just the nature of the beast.

[LooseCannon]

Here's the deal.  Let's say Perk would get a four- or five-year contract on the free agent market.  One, there are a lot of teams who are willing to overpay; just look at the number of bad contracts that teams try to move, including guys who were signed to lucrative deals this off-season.  Two, these teams are willing to overpay on top of an optimistic assumption that Perkins will be mostly healthy for the duration of the contract.

Danny Ainge does not like to lock up injury-prone players to long-term deals.  That's why Leon Powe was not in his long-term plans.  That's why he didn't want to give Tony Allen a guaranteed third year.  I think it is one reason why he decided Jermaine O'Neal for two years was a better MLE gamble than Brad Miller for three years.

Ainge, if he follows past behavior, would have wanted a discount, either in fewer dollars committed or in unguaranteed money on the end of a contract.  Possibly, Perkins signaled that he wanted to maximize his money on the free agent market, but would give the Celtics a chance to match.

Anyone who wants to pay (or even overpay) Perk based on expected value under the assumption that he will be healthy for the duration of the contract is a horrible armchair GM who might not even be as competent as Chris Wallace.

[Rondo9dunx]

Big Al makes like 10m a year and you're wondering what makes us think perk wanted 10m next year?

lawl

[BballTim]

Bballtim, I don't need a quote from Doc about who or who isn't starting. The trade said it all.

They think Shaq/JO and Krstic combined can fill what Perkins gave you, and their not losing anything at the position with the move. Instead, you just gained major bench help while still getting production from Center.

And I believe their right.

  Haha. God forbid the coach's opinion get in the way of your proclaiming who the starting center is.

  Is that how trades generally work? That the only reason players are traded is because their teams were planning on replacing them in the starting lineup regardless? I must say that's a new way of looking at things.

  Oh, and I like how you jumped from telling me that I don't know how much half the teams in the league to telling me exactly what Doc and Danny were thinking with regards to the trade, but I guess I should expect that from someone who seems to know more about who are starting center will be than the coaching staff.

[indeedproceed]

Big Al makes like 10m a year and you're wondering what makes us think perk wanted 10m next year?

lawl

When Big Al signed that contract he was a 20-10 young guy having an all-star season.

Perkins was not, and will not, get 10 million per.

The guy to look at though is Brendan Haywood..and I think if Perkins were healthy, he'd be looking at 8 million per, and that could still happen.

The real sadness will be if he resigns somewhere else for the MLE for like a 5 or 6 year contract. That'd break my heart.

[Redz]

Bballtim, I don't need a quote from Doc about who or who isn't starting. The trade said it all.

They think Shaq/JO and Krstic combined can fill what Perkins gave you, and their not losing anything at the position with the move. Instead, you just gained major bench help while still getting production from Center.

And I believe their right.

  Haha. God forbid the coach's opinion get in the way of your proclaiming who the starting center is.

  Is that how trades generally work? That the only reason players are traded is because their teams were planning on replacing them in the starting lineup regardless? I must say that's a new way of looking at things.

  Oh, and I like how you jumped from telling me that I don't know how much half the teams in the league to telling me exactly what Doc and Danny were thinking with regards to the trade, but I guess I should expect that from someone who seems to know more about who are starting center will be than the coaching staff.

say what you need to say without tearing into each other please - Redz

[BballTim]

Big Al makes like 10m a year and you're wondering what makes us think perk wanted 10m next year?

lawl

When Big Al signed that contract he was a 20-10 young guy having an all-star season.

Perkins was not, and will not, get 10 million per.

The guy to look at though is Brendan Haywood..and I think if Perkins were healthy, he'd be looking at 8 million per, and that could still happen.

The real sadness will be if he resigns somewhere else for the MLE for like a 5 or 6 year contract. That'd break my heart.

  I'd be shocked if OKC didn't offer him more than that after trading Green and a 1st rounder for him.