Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[wdleehi]

I'll say it again as I said before on here and/or on realgm..that Kwame Brown could have done what Perkins did for the Cs.  Perkins is nothing special, but he DID do his job.  Others can do the type of job Perk did, though not sure he is on the roster at the moment.  I wanted us to sign Kwame this past offseason for peanuts instead of JO... but now he'll probably cost 4-5 million per.

  Kwame is one of the best low post defenders in the game? Really?

Yes, he is one of the better low post defender.


Tells you how hard it is find a top level low post defender when Brown is one of the better ones.  (not an elite level low post defender like Perk or KG)

[bbd24]

It's not about Perkins and how bad or worthless a player he is. Everybody knows that's not the case. It's about the situation in whole.

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer. He's coming off major knee surgery. And you have a combo of Shaq/JO and now Krstic filling his position. The value of Green off the bench to go with a future Clippper 1st rounder can't be weighed right now, because we don't know what comes of it. Regardless, Green looks like a huge upgrade and adds scoring for the bench on paper.

I thought it was a great trade. Your basically saying Shaq, JO, and Krstic can be just as good if not better than Perk, and Green adds to your bench immediately. On top of that, you get younger and add future picks to help you out later as well. When you have a stacked roster going in, it makes it easier to make trades like this. This is a better team overall, and you get a 1st rounder to boot.

[Roy H.]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

[bbd24]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

I disagree. For what a player like Perkins brings(defense, rebounding), it's more than fair. He doesn't deserve what he's wanting, especially coming off a major knee injury . You can't pay him what he's wanting when your winning games without him with Shaq, JO, and Semih at the position.

Now you've upgraded the bench with Green, and Semih with Krstic.

Both Perkins and guys like Tony Allen were offered fair contracts. The players and their agents knew they'd get paid more on the open market. Teams will overpay in free agency. Still doesn't mean the players are worth it. Perkins and TA weren't the big four. They are role players playing alongside hall of famers. Both positions could be upgraded(center, backup wing).

[Roy H.]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

I disagree. For what a player like Perkins brings(defense, rebounding), it's more than fair. He doesn't deserve what he's wanting, especially coming off a major knee injury . You can't pay him what he's wanting when your winning games without him with Shaq, JO, and Semih at the position.

Now you've upgraded the bench with Green, and Semih with Krstic.

Both Perkins and guys like Tony Allen were offered fair contracts. The players and their agents knew they'd get paid more on the open market. Teams will overpay in free agency. Still doesn't mean the players are worth it. Perkins and TA weren't the big four. They are role players playing alongside hall of famers. Both positions could be upgraded(center, backup wing).

When guys like Amir Johnson and Travis Outlaw get back $7 million per season, and other defensive centers get $9 - $11 million per year, I think $5.75 million for Perk is well below "fair".  If the team wants to let him walk, fine, but it's just not accurate to suggest the deal is anywhere close to his fair value.

If the Celts had held fast at $23.4 million in the summer (which I don't think they would have), then they would have been basically been telling Perk to leave.

[BballTim]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

I disagree. For what a player like Perkins brings(defense, rebounding), it's more than fair. He doesn't deserve what he's wanting, especially coming off a major knee injury . You can't pay him what he's wanting when your winning games without him with Shaq, JO, and Semih at the position.

  Half the teams in the league would love to sign a player like Perk for more money than we offered him, starting with the Heat. OKC will offer him well more than Danny did. You might not value defense and rebounding from a center, but nba teams do.

[More Banners]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

Disagree.  Average rebounder (for a C), zero offense, great defense makes him a specialist/role player.  $5+ million/year sounds about right, especially factoring in a significant and ongoing injury history.  He never averaged as much as 30 minutes/game, either.

Teams paying similar players more than that pretty much come to regret it quickly, or they're not able to get some other piece that they need to win.  Overpaying role players, even great ones, leads to early playoff exits.  Simply because bad contracts abound doesn't mean it is wise to follow suit.

Thank heaven Danny is a bit sharper than the rest of us on these things, eh?

[nba is the worst]

I'm with Roy and BBall Tim - there's a reason for the word fair being contained in the phrase "fair market value".

Perk is worth what teams are willing to pay for his services.  Which is clearly more than the Celtics were able to offer as an extension under the CBA.

[bbd24]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

I disagree. For what a player like Perkins brings(defense, rebounding), it's more than fair. He doesn't deserve what he's wanting, especially coming off a major knee injury . You can't pay him what he's wanting when your winning games without him with Shaq, JO, and Semih at the position.

Now you've upgraded the bench with Green, and Semih with Krstic.

Both Perkins and guys like Tony Allen were offered fair contracts. The players and their agents knew they'd get paid more on the open market. Teams will overpay in free agency. Still doesn't mean the players are worth it. Perkins and TA weren't the big four. They are role players playing alongside hall of famers. Both positions could be upgraded(center, backup wing).

When guys like Amir Johnson and Travis Outlaw get back $7 million per season, and other defensive centers get $9 - $11 million per year, I think $5.75 million for Perk is well below "fair".  If the team wants to let him walk, fine, but it's just not accurate to suggest the deal is anywhere close to his fair value.

If the Celts had held fast at $23.4 million in the summer (which I don't think they would have), then they would have been basically been telling Perk to leave.

For the role he plays on a championship team with 4 all stars, 5 Million is more than enough.  Especially considering how the GM stacked the roster with players who earned Perks position (Shaq) while he was out.  Especially considering the major knee surgery the player just had.  That depletes your contract as well.   You have no guarantee going forward that Perk is the player he was 2 years ago, or last year pre-injury.   He's damaged goods and was upgradeable even before the damage.

[bbd24]

I'm with Roy and BBall Tim - there's a reason for the word fair being contained in the phrase "fair market value".

Perkm is worth what teams are willing to pay for his services.  Which is clearly more than the Celtics were able to offer as an extension under the CBA.

Fair market value is one thing, overpaying in free agency is another.

[GoGreen9]

I'll say it again as I said before on here and/or on realgm..that Kwame Brown could have done what Perkins did for the Cs.  Perkins is nothing special, but he DID do his job.  Others can do the type of job Perk did, though not sure he is on the roster at the moment.  I wanted us to sign Kwame this past offseason for peanuts instead of JO... but now he'll probably cost 4-5 million per.

  Kwame is one of the best low post defenders in the game? Really?

No, not at Perkins' level, but he's still pretty good. He'd have been a great option.

Just wondering, but what are you suggesting here?

[MBunge]

Teams paying similar players more than that pretty much come to regret it quickly, or they're not able to get some other piece that they need to win.  Overpaying role players, even great ones, leads to early playoff exits.  Simply because bad contracts abound doesn't mean it is wise to follow suit.

Thank heaven Danny is a bit sharper than the rest of us on these things, eh?

While I think Perk deserves more than what the Cs offered (and that Danny would also have been willing to ultimately pay a bit more than that), he's not really worth the $10+ million that he will almost certainly get on the open market.  I mean, do you think Orlando is happy they're going to pay Jameer Nelson 7 million a year the next two seasons for 12 points and 6 assists a game?

Of course, if the Magic won a title two years ago, that contract probably wouldn't bother anyone.  Likewise, if Boston doesn't bring home banner 18 and it's clear that not having Perk is a big reason for that, who's going to console themselves with thoughts of future salary cap flexibility.

Mike

[bbd24]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

I disagree. For what a player like Perkins brings(defense, rebounding), it's more than fair. He doesn't deserve what he's wanting, especially coming off a major knee injury . You can't pay him what he's wanting when your winning games without him with Shaq, JO, and Semih at the position.

  Half the teams in the league would love to sign a player like Perk for more money than we offered him, starting with the Heat. OKC will offer him well more than Danny did. You might not value defense and rebounding from a center, but nba teams do.

Don't put words in my mouth.  I do value defense and rebounding.   But I also value health, money, and the future.

I loved Perkins and his play just like you did.  I also realize he's not the most important player out there.  I also realize he can be upgraded.  You can win without him and you proved it this year once again going twenty something and 2 from the jump off.

I'm interested to see what he does with OKC and their system.  

I believe KG is worth more than his stats on the court, and provides help to any center next to him.  Perk won't have that anymore in OKC.

[BballTim]

Perkins didn't sign the fair contract offer.

I don't think even Danny Ainge thought it was a fair contract offer.  It's the offer mandated by the CBA, but $23.4 million over four years for a starting center in his prime is not even close to fair market value.

Disagree.  Average rebounder (for a C), zero offense, great defense makes him a specialist/role player.  $5+ million/year sounds about right, especially factoring in a significant and ongoing injury history.  He never averaged as much as 30 minutes/game, either.

Teams paying similar players more than that pretty much come to regret it quickly, or they're not able to get some other piece that they need to win.  Overpaying role players, even great ones, leads to early playoff exits.  Simply because bad contracts abound doesn't mean it is wise to follow suit.

Thank heaven Danny is a bit sharper than the rest of us on these things, eh?

  Just to give this a little perspective, I went to hoopdata to get per40 minute scoring for centers (09-10 season, when Perk played). Looked at centers that played more than 40 games and more than 20 minutes a game. The average center in that list scores about 16 points in 40 minutes and shoots about 52% from the floor. Perk gets 14.7 on just over 60% shooting. Players that scored less than Perk included Okafor, Dalembert, Noah, Haywood, Chandler and Dampier. How much do some of those guys get paid? $5M might sound  about right to you but it's clearly well below market value. I'm reminded of the people who felt that $5M-$7M a year was more than fair for a player with shooting woes like Rondo.

[nba is the worst]

I'm with Roy and BBall Tim - there's a reason for the word fair being contained in the phrase "fair market value".

Perk is worth what teams are willing to pay for his services.  Which is clearly more than the Celtics were able to offer as an extension under the CBA.

Fair market value is one thing, overpaying in free agency is another.

If he had signed the extension OKC would likely have given up more to get him.

It's a good thing for Perk you aren't his agent.

 My position is that fair market value is what teams are willing to pay a free agent for his services, which means that there's no such thing as "overpaying in free agency ".