A Salute to Cold, Hard, Calculating Danny Ainge

[BballTim]

I dont know, you make it sound like Ainge is so far above the curve of NBA GMs.  That might be TOO much praise for a guy who was handed the best PF in the league and the best 3 pt shooter in the league.  How difficult is it to add support for 4 all-stars?  Cant be too hard bc Miami is doing the exact same thing?

 That's pretty nonsensical. I'd say something more accurate would be a guy who accumulated enough assets to trade for two perennial all-stars while keeping three of his best 4 players and 2 of his best three young players. And are you really trying to claim that Miami's surrounded their stars with as much talent as Boston?

[CoachBo]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

[BballTim]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

  By "selling for pennies on the dollar" you mean "getting as much in trade as other teams generally do for players of that magnitude"? "Right place, right time, good sales pitch" means "outbidding other teams who were trying to obtain the same players"?

[Tai]

the gm who gets dwight deserves to be GM of the year. best center in the league.

This is a team game. Selfish immature players are no good for chemistry. Look at Carmello. Howard has become more self involved than he already was. GMs would be wise to go after players who have good character and play for their teammates.

Edit: Maybe not, because players like howard seem to bring in all the money, but if winning is the priority then I think what I said is true.

yes, it's a team game but you still need individuals to build around. Dwight is a good example of that type of individual. I don't know how you can classify him as selfish because he doesn't have ball-hog tendencies. He plays both ends of the court, not just the offensive side (like Melo or Wade). He sets picks. He fights for rebounds. Is he immature because he smiles a lot? seems like a pretty shallow reason. or is it because he complains to the refs? because if that were the case, we should all be glad we got rid of Perkins then.

I have yet to see him display melo-like tendencies of pouting about his situation and complaining about where he wants to go. As a matter of fact, he's deflected every question of the media that's asked him about his impending FA status in 2012. The talks of him wanting to go to LA, NY or CHI all come from "sources", not actually Dwight Howard. Recently, he's actually grown frustrated at all these circulating rumors.

Perhaps you can point to that series (against LA i think?) where he said that he thinks he should get the ball more, but then again, doesn't he have the right to call for the ball, especially when he thinks that it will give the team a better chance to win, when clearly the style of play that they were employing wasn't working? Even team-oriented guys like Pau Gasol have demanded the ball more through the media.

Dwight has shown a great desire to keep improving and expanding his game and i want that in a young player. Did you see his interview with Bill Russell? His workouts with Olajuwon? His offensive game now (not against the Celtics) compared to some few years ago? I don't know where you get the notion that he's so self-involved to the detriment of his teammates' play (like Iverson or Melo). We may not like him because he's the enemy but if he were wearing green, i'm sure we would love having him.



PS: he was pretty disenchanted following that Kings loss, calling out his teammates on lack of effort (not skill or not coz they suck), and he followed that game up with 40 points (16/20 from the field) and 15 rebounds while blocking 6 shots.

TP for you, sir.

[CoachBo]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

  By "selling for pennies on the dollar" you mean "getting as much in trade as other teams generally do for players of that magnitude"? "Right place, right time, good sales pitch" means "outbidding other teams who were trying to obtain the same players"?

No, I mean exchanging very little of value for two superstars. Do you want to re-live the nonsense of three summers ago, when people contended we traded value for Garnett and Allen? Didn't happen. We gave up little of true NBA value - which should surprise no one; the team those trades came from was one of the worst in Celtic history for a reason - for two first-ballot NBA Hall of Famers.

Basically, we gave up a top-end lottery pick - which we now have back - a second-tier inside player who was chronically overrated on this board and a bag of Danny's trash for Garnett and Allen. Jefferson's another player whose myth on this blog FAR eclipses his actual value as a player.

The Knicks paid a MUCH higher price for Anthony.

[nba is the worst]

yes, it's a team game but you still need individuals to build around. Dwight is a good example of that type of individual. I don't know how you can classify him as selfish because he doesn't have ball-hog tendencies. He plays both ends of the court, not just the offensive side (like Melo or Wade). He sets picks. He fights for rebounds. Is he immature because he smiles a lot? seems like a pretty shallow reason. or is it because he complains to the refs? because if that were the case, we should all be glad we got rid of Perkins then.

I have yet to see him display melo-like tendencies of pouting about his situation and complaining about where he wants to go. As a matter of fact, he's deflected every question of the media that's asked him about his impending FA status in 2012. The talks of him wanting to go to LA, NY or CHI all come from "sources", not actually Dwight Howard. Recently, he's actually grown frustrated at all these circulating rumors.

Perhaps you can point to that series (against LA i think?) where he said that he thinks he should get the ball more, but then again, doesn't he have the right to call for the ball, especially when he thinks that it will give the team a better chance to win, when clearly the style of play that they were employing wasn't working? Even team-oriented guys like Pau Gasol have demanded the ball more through the media.

Dwight has shown a great desire to keep improving and expanding his game and i want that in a young player. Did you see his interview with Bill Russell? His workouts with Olajuwon? His offensive game now (not against the Celtics) compared to some few years ago? I don't know where you get the notion that he's so self-involved to the detriment of his teammates' play (like Iverson or Melo). We may not like him because he's the enemy but if he were wearing green, i'm sure we would love having him.



PS: he was pretty disenchanted following that Kings loss, calling out his teammates on lack of effort (not skill or not coz they suck), and he followed that game up with 40 points (16/20 from the field) and 15 rebounds while blocking 6 shots.

I'm sure I would hate to see him on the Celtics. Him being on the magic has nothing to do with it. I don't just hate everyone who isn't on the Celtics. He's always slagging off his coach and teammates to the media. You think because he puts up big numbers that makes it okay? That's not a team player; that's not productive. That just shows he is all about himself. He's passive aggressive and non-confrontational. He doesn't understand sacrifice. Yea he smiles too much on the court. He giggles to himself and can barely contain his glee when he knows the cameras are on him. I could go on about this but it's probably better to just say personally I don't like him and I don't want him wearing the Celtic uniform.

IMO he's quite mentally weak, as the ft line inconsistency proves.

Hate the dirty elbows, and the imitation Shaqisms.

Beast of a talent that is largely wasted to this point.

[BudweiserCeltic]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

  By "selling for pennies on the dollar" you mean "getting as much in trade as other teams generally do for players of that magnitude"? "Right place, right time, good sales pitch" means "outbidding other teams who were trying to obtain the same players"?

No, I mean exchanging very little of value for two superstars. Do you want to re-live the nonsense of three summers ago, when people contended we traded value for Garnett and Allen? Didn't happen. We gave up little of true NBA value - which should surprise no one; the team those trades came from was one of the worst in Celtic history for a reason - for two first-ballot NBA Hall of Famers.

Basically, we gave up a top-end lottery pick - which we now have back - a second-tier inside player who was chronically overrated on this board and a bag of Danny's trash for Garnett and Allen. Jefferson's another player whose myth on this blog FAR eclipses his actual value as a player.

The Knicks paid a MUCH higher price for Anthony.

Only they didn't get only Anthony, they also got Billups that's a top echelon PG in this league. To this day and all his accomplishments, still very much underrated.

[CoachBo]

Two players, like Allen and Garnett.

The Knicks gave up several credible pieces in that deal, and I suspect Denver will remain competitive as a result, probably even more able to run Karl's uptempo game.

The ONLY thing the Celtics gave up that I truly miss plays his first game for us tonight. The rest is just flotsam and jetsam.

As I've said on here for awhile, the GM business is a hit-and-miss game. You win some, and you lose some, whether you're Ainge, Sam Presti, Daryl Morey or whoever. I've gotten on Ainge's back before and I'll get on it again. Difference is, Ainge has a ring to keep him warm on those nights when the deals go south - see Eddie House for Nate Robinson - and he owes some of that to good old fire sale Sam. Those other fellas with the urban legends don't have a ring.

I wonder how Presti's owner feels about the Ray Allen deal now.

But not on this deal. Doesn't rise to the Garnett and Allen heists, but it's a nice third on the list.

[BballTim]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

  By "selling for pennies on the dollar" you mean "getting as much in trade as other teams generally do for players of that magnitude"? "Right place, right time, good sales pitch" means "outbidding other teams who were trying to obtain the same players"?

No, I mean exchanging very little of value for two superstars. Do you want to re-live the nonsense of three summers ago, when people contended we traded value for Garnett and Allen? Didn't happen. We gave up little of true NBA value - which should surprise no one; the team those trades came from was one of the worst in Celtic history for a reason - for two first-ballot NBA Hall of Famers.

Basically, we gave up a top-end lottery pick - which we now have back - a second-tier inside player who was chronically overrated on this board and a bag of Danny's trash for Garnett and Allen. Jefferson's another player whose myth on this blog FAR eclipses his actual value as a player.

The Knicks paid a MUCH higher price for Anthony.

  First of all, the player you claim was chronically overrated by this board was also apparently chronically overrated by nba executives, as Ainge had a lot of offers for Al before he made the trade he did. Secondly, even ignoring the fact that the Knicks got Billups, you don't seem to have much of an idea about relative value of players.

  Ray Allen, 31, coming off of double ankle surgery. 3 years and $53M left on his contract. Getting close to the age when most shooting guards start to show a dropoff in production. Carmelo Anthony, 26 years old, 5th in the league in scoring and just entering his prime as a player. Which player is worth MUCH more than the other?

[Cman]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

Exactly -- Ainge had put the team in a position to be players in a big trade with (a) flexible contracts, (b) trade assets.

He's trying to do the same thing again -- not with an eye to Dwight Howard per se, but with an eye to creating flexibility and building assets so that he can pounce when the opportunity presents itself.

[harrmonica]

people really thought this team was headed for banner #18??? the 41-14 start was nice, but this team started to slow down recently, starters playing too many minutes, no depth, complete lack of offensive production off the bench, leads being squandered by the reserves, injuries. as it stood, ray, paul and kg were all logging too many minutes which spells disaster playoff time. look at the list of players paul would have to guard to get to the finals, this team needed help.

this is a great trade that gives us depth and flexibility and allows paul and kg to sit for longer stretches. perk was going to test free agency (and probably walk)and basically made himself our best chip to trade once he rejected the offer. we really had no assets outside of him to let go and getting decent depth in return (plus a draft pick) is good business for this year and next. i think our gm and coach know more than we do about the status of the o'neals and the rest of the roster spots yet to be filled. nothing is for certain, but i feel good about this move.

[CoachBo]

It's unfair and inaccurate to say that Ainge was "handed" Garnett and Allen.

He was ready and able when Minnesota and Seattle - seems to me that Sam Presti was on the other end of that pantsing, too - decided to sell both at pennies on the dollar. Clearly, Ainge was able to acquire both without giving up significant value, but the beauty of that was the Celtics had no future as a franchise with that group anyway.

The Garnett and Allen deals were no risk, high reward moves, but you can't make them if you don't have cap space and at least a player or two that interests your trading partners.

Right place, right time, good sales pitch. That's not being "handed" anything.

  By "selling for pennies on the dollar" you mean "getting as much in trade as other teams generally do for players of that magnitude"? "Right place, right time, good sales pitch" means "outbidding other teams who were trying to obtain the same players"?

No, I mean exchanging very little of value for two superstars. Do you want to re-live the nonsense of three summers ago, when people contended we traded value for Garnett and Allen? Didn't happen. We gave up little of true NBA value - which should surprise no one; the team those trades came from was one of the worst in Celtic history for a reason - for two first-ballot NBA Hall of Famers.

Basically, we gave up a top-end lottery pick - which we now have back - a second-tier inside player who was chronically overrated on this board and a bag of Danny's trash for Garnett and Allen. Jefferson's another player whose myth on this blog FAR eclipses his actual value as a player.

The Knicks paid a MUCH higher price for Anthony.

  First of all, the player you claim was chronically overrated by this board was also apparently chronically overrated by nba executives, as Ainge had a lot of offers for Al before he made the trade he did. Secondly, even ignoring the fact that the Knicks got Billups, you don't seem to have much of an idea about relative value of players.

  Ray Allen, 31, coming off of double ankle surgery. 3 years and $53M left on his contract. Getting close to the age when most shooting guards start to show a dropoff in production. Carmelo Anthony, 26 years old, 5th in the league in scoring and just entering his prime as a player. Which player is worth MUCH more than the other?

Now we're going to conflate Jefferson's value, eh? These discussions are truly entertaining. Remind me again. What was Al No D's line in the All Star Game.

I'll help. He didn't make it. Again. Ainge isn't perfect - no one is - but the only thing of value he traded for Garnett and Allen is wearing No. 8 tonight. The rest of it was just fodder for hyperbole - and continues to be, apparently - on this blog.

Enlighten me. Where's the Wilson Chandler in the Garnett and Allen deals? The Ray Felton - I can't wait for this one; I pine for the rhapsodic ramblings about the great Sebastian Telfair. The Gallinari?

Denver traded two great players. The Celtics acquired two great players for nothing. Let's check back in four years and see if all of the above in Nugget blue are footnotes in the failure of their franchises, like Jefferson et al. are in the Celtic record book.

In the meantime, let's recognize the Garnett and Allen deals for what they truly were - salary dumps by the sellers.

[rondohondo]

yes, it's a team game but you still need individuals to build around. Dwight is a good example of that type of individual. I don't know how you can classify him as selfish because he doesn't have ball-hog tendencies. He plays both ends of the court, not just the offensive side (like Melo or Wade). He sets picks. He fights for rebounds. Is he immature because he smiles a lot? seems like a pretty shallow reason. or is it because he complains to the refs? because if that were the case, we should all be glad we got rid of Perkins then.

I have yet to see him display melo-like tendencies of pouting about his situation and complaining about where he wants to go. As a matter of fact, he's deflected every question of the media that's asked him about his impending FA status in 2012. The talks of him wanting to go to LA, NY or CHI all come from "sources", not actually Dwight Howard. Recently, he's actually grown frustrated at all these circulating rumors.

Perhaps you can point to that series (against LA i think?) where he said that he thinks he should get the ball more, but then again, doesn't he have the right to call for the ball, especially when he thinks that it will give the team a better chance to win, when clearly the style of play that they were employing wasn't working? Even team-oriented guys like Pau Gasol have demanded the ball more through the media.

Dwight has shown a great desire to keep improving and expanding his game and i want that in a young player. Did you see his interview with Bill Russell? His workouts with Olajuwon? His offensive game now (not against the Celtics) compared to some few years ago? I don't know where you get the notion that he's so self-involved to the detriment of his teammates' play (like Iverson or Melo). We may not like him because he's the enemy but if he were wearing green, i'm sure we would love having him.



PS: he was pretty disenchanted following that Kings loss, calling out his teammates on lack of effort (not skill or not coz they suck), and he followed that game up with 40 points (16/20 from the field) and 15 rebounds while blocking 6 shots.

I'm sure I would hate to see him on the Celtics. Him being on the magic has nothing to do with it. I don't just hate everyone who isn't on the Celtics. He's always slagging off his coach and teammates to the media. You think because he puts up big numbers that makes it okay? That's not a team player; that's not productive. That just shows he is all about himself. He's passive aggressive and non-confrontational. He doesn't understand sacrifice. Yea he smiles too much on the court. He giggles to himself and can barely contain his glee when he knows the cameras are on him. I could go on about this but it's probably better to just say personally I don't like him and I don't want him wearing the Celtic uniform.

IMO he's quite mentally weak, as the ft line inconsistency proves.

Hate the dirty elbows, and the imitation Shaqisms.

Beast of a talent that is largely wasted to this point.

So I guess Rondo is mentally weak to because he is not a great free throw shooter

Largely wasted talent? The guy is defensive player of the year every year and will be for the next 10 years. He has improved his offensive game tremendously this past off-season putting in the work with Hakeem.  He has never had a legit pass first PG that could make his life a lot easier, yet he still averages 20+ 10+ every single year.

Oh yea he has already brought the Magic to the Finals( I know KG didn't play in the playoffs that year) and beat a Lebron lead team to get there. In the Finals the Magic put up a good fight even though they lost in 5 , if Lee makes that alley oop at the buzzer in game two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AEYKEHfJ68

and didn't choke away game 4 , they could have been in control of that series.

And he didn't even have Jameer Nelson on the team til the Final, Rafer Alston was playing PG.

Get out of here with this "largely wasted talent" nonsense

[barefacedmonk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AEYKEHfJ68

Do you work for SW airlines?

[GreenFaith1819]

Here's my opinion on the events of the last two days:

Say the trade DID NOT happen. We kept Perk and Nate and beat LA in June for Banner 18.

Perk now has TWO rings, as an important part of our frontline.

Now this is the part of the NBA that isn't always fun - What would've kept Perk from leaving? Loyalty? What goal would he have left to accomplish? Would he have wanted stay for less money, even though his value probably would've been high?

Someone posted here a few weeks ago that he turned down our extension for 7.5 mil?

Would he have wanted to cash in on the success of our Banner 18 and leave? I believe that some GMs would've done it (signed him for more). Arguably? He could very well command that much - even with his limitations.

Knowing that "Hey, I've already won two rings, why can't I cash in on this success?"

He would deserve it, but such a committment to him would not allow us to keep Jeff, Nenad, or Glen, etc - after this year.

I am not totally familiar with our cap situation. Could we have resigned Perk to - say - $10 mil per, and stay competitive?

I guess in a perfect world, all NBA franchises would have a $100 mil dollar ceiling, and could pay players as such.

Now my hope is that we can somehow keep Baby, Nenad and Jeff - as well as our Core - after this year.

Throw in Delonte, Wafer, JO, Shaq, Powe(? Hopefully?), and one or two other pieces that are floating out there, and now Danny has extended The Celtics' window another year.