Author Topic: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?  (Read 8445 times)

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Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2011, 01:24:36 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it. 

  Either that or a bunch of people on the internet are fixated on your shooting.

Well, there has to be something there to get so many people talking about, even if it is an overreaction. 

  Sure, there's something there, just like there's something to his being arguably the best defensive guard in the game and his averaging more assists than anyone in the last 15 or so years. Wanna take any guesses on which of those three seems to be the most meaningful to people here?
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 01:28:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it. 

  Either that or a bunch of people on the internet are fixated on your shooting.

Well, there has to be something there to get so many people talking about, even if it is an overreaction. 

  Sure, there's something there, just like there's something to his being arguably the best defensive guard in the game and his averaging more assists than anyone in the last 15 or so years. Wanna take any guesses on which of those three seems to be the most meaningful to people here?
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.

  I must have missed that. Which coaches are literally ordering their players not to guard Rondo?

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 01:50:17 PM »

Offline mgent

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I believe Tommy's quote was, 'if he had confidence to make that shot he could be a 30 point scorer'. My favorite from last night was, Mike Gorman: 'Are you a Devin Harris guy', Tommy: 'Nope'..'hes not my guy!'. That my friends is unvarnished.
Haha yeah, i've heard Mike joke with Tommy about Devin Harris multiple times before.  I remember once he asked "What do you think about Harris?" and Tommy just replied, "Don't like him."  At the time i was thinking what else would Tommy possibly say about the opposing PG.
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Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2011, 01:51:39 PM »

Offline mgent

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it. 

  Either that or a bunch of people on the internet are fixated on your shooting.

Well, there has to be something there to get so many people talking about, even if it is an overreaction. 

  Sure, there's something there, just like there's something to his being arguably the best defensive guard in the game and his averaging more assists than anyone in the last 15 or so years. Wanna take any guesses on which of those three seems to be the most meaningful to people here?
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.

  I must have missed that. Which coaches are literally ordering their players not to guard Rondo?
Which coaches haven't since he almost averaged a triple double in the playoffs.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 01:59:26 PM »

Offline Chris

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it. 

  Either that or a bunch of people on the internet are fixated on your shooting.

Well, there has to be something there to get so many people talking about, even if it is an overreaction. 

  Sure, there's something there, just like there's something to his being arguably the best defensive guard in the game and his averaging more assists than anyone in the last 15 or so years. Wanna take any guesses on which of those three seems to be the most meaningful to people here?

I was just making a joke, so I'm not going to play along.  But I do think its funny that it is threadworthy when Rondo hits a jump shot. 

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2011, 02:36:39 PM »

Offline bigfour18

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THE CELTICS ARE THE BEST, WHO CARES ABOUT THE REST!!!!!!!!!

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 02:44:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it.  

  Either that or a bunch of people on the internet are fixated on your shooting.

Well, there has to be something there to get so many people talking about, even if it is an overreaction.  

  Sure, there's something there, just like there's something to his being arguably the best defensive guard in the game and his averaging more assists than anyone in the last 15 or so years. Wanna take any guesses on which of those three seems to be the most meaningful to people here?
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.

  I must have missed that. Which coaches are literally ordering their players not to guard Rondo?
You must have stopped reading my post mid sentence.

Quote
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.
There I've bolded the part where you stopped. Teams zone up on Rondo by playing 6 feet off him and doubling with his man. They are guarding him, but doing so in a way to dare him to shoot 18 foot jump shots. Its a serious problem during many games. Some games he responds and makes them pay and they switch back. Other games our offense sputters badly because of it.

The Lakers do so effectively about half the time with Kobe on Rondo, but the Heat/Magic/Knicks/others have all done it in the past.

But we've been down this road before. Just because he has a flaw, and others point it out, doesn't mean he's not a great PG.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 02:44:31 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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It's always nice to see Rondo hit a jumper but if everyone is acting so full of glee a couple years down the road when he makes one, then we are in trouble

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2011, 03:28:44 PM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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Quote
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.
There I've bolded the part where you stopped. Teams zone up on Rondo by playing 6 feet off him and doubling with his man. They are guarding him, but doing so in a way to dare him to shoot 18 foot jump shots. Its a serious problem during many games. Some games he responds and makes them pay and they switch back. Other games our offense sputters badly because of it.

You might want to consider that going under the pick and otherwise leaving him open in the half court will be the best way to guard him even if he hits his jumper.  When you're playing a team predicated on ball movement, against a point guard who would rather pass than shoot, and someone who when he does shoot tends to shoot layups, it's probably the best defense possible to clog the paint, jump the passing lanes, and encourage Rondo to do what he doesn't want to do, not only because he might miss jumpers, but because it might make the Cs take the ball out of Rondo's hands completely, and take the Cs out of what they do best--run offense with Rondo facilitating. 

So I wouldn't use a team's defense against Rondo as indictment on his jump shooting or whether it has improved (it has).  It's not even about whether he's making his jump shot.  The defense works because it makes Rondo do something he doesn't want to do--shoot--and it does it by cutting off and playing him for what he does like to do (pass and penetrate).  And this will continue even when Rondo as Rondo continues to improve his jump shooting.  IMO, the only way to completely thwart this defense is to spot up at the 3 point line and start getting proficient from distance. 

The Lakers do so effectively about half the time with Kobe on Rondo, but the Heat/Magic/Knicks/others have all done it in the past.

The thing with the Rondo defense is that only the Lakers can play it successfully because they have Kobe and two 7-footers at Center and Power Forward.  It fails against every other team because they lack either an elite defender at 2 guard to shift over on Rondo and double team like crazy, or the presence of two 7-footers in the paint.  The Knicks, Heat, and Magic all try to play the defense, and all that does is lead to historic Rondo performances, like his 24-assist game against the Knicks, his triple-double against the Heat, and his 27-point game against the Magic when he just killed them for leaving him open. 
Folly. Persist.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2011, 03:35:24 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote
I think opposing coaches literally ordering their teams to not guard Rondo on jump shots is the most meaningful thing that can be said on the topic.
There I've bolded the part where you stopped. Teams zone up on Rondo by playing 6 feet off him and doubling with his man. They are guarding him, but doing so in a way to dare him to shoot 18 foot jump shots. Its a serious problem during many games. Some games he responds and makes them pay and they switch back. Other games our offense sputters badly because of it.

You might want to consider that going under the pick and otherwise leaving him open in the half court will be the best way to guard him even if he hits his jumper.  When you're playing a team predicated on ball movement, against a point guard who would rather pass than shoot, and someone who when he does shoot tends to shoot layups, it's probably the best defense possible to clog the paint, jump the passing lanes, and encourage Rondo to do what he doesn't want to do, not only because he might miss jumpers, but because it might make the Cs take the ball out of Rondo's hands completely, and take the Cs out of what they do best--run offense with Rondo facilitating.  

So I wouldn't use a team's defense against Rondo as indictment on his jump shooting or whether it has improved (it has).  It's not even about whether he's making his jump shot.  The defense works because it makes Rondo do something he doesn't want to do--shoot--and it does it by cutting off and playing him for what he does like to do (pass and penetrate).  And this will continue even when Rondo as Rondo continues to improve his jump shooting.  IMO, the only way to completely thwart this defense is to spot up at the 3 point line and start getting proficient from distance.  
I find it curious you talk about going under the pick when I didn't mention P&R at all. Teams aren't just going under the pick, rather they're actively having their man stay around 5 to 6 feet away from him when he's dribbling the ball or when he's on the wing without it. Only if he gets near the paint do they stay within typical guarding distance.

That's diferent than just going under the picks on a player and its a much broader issue. It is a judgment on his jump shot compared to the rest of his game, and the rest of the C's games.

You're right that many teams don't have the personal to effectively use it all the time. It requires active help defense with length to keep him from driving to the hoop. But it has worked, especially in short spurts and it is an issue. The Heat game this Sunday it worked for three quarters out of four, and tha's a serious problem. Most games we can't survive three awful offensive quarters.

He has improved, but unless he can make it so that he can punish teams for playing him like that it is going to remain an issue for the C's.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2011, 04:04:17 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Teams zone up on Rondo by playing 6 feet off him and doubling with his man. They are guarding him, but doing so in a way to dare him to shoot 18 foot jump shots. Its a serious problem during many games. Some games he responds and makes them pay and they switch back. Other games our offense sputters badly because of it.

  I don't agree with much of this. Teams never abandon this approach because Rondo hits some 18 foot jump shots. He normally makes them pay in ways that don't involve taking outside shots, such as garnering easy assists because they don't pressure him. The team occasionally sputters because of it but normally functions quite well despite it. Many teams have tried this approach in the past to varying degrees of success. Our offense generally sputters against this defense when the other starters miss the (fairly) wide open shots they get.

  In the Finals last year Ray was killing the Lakers when they were running their "Kobe" defense. They saw success with it after Artest kneed Ray in the thigh in game 3. Rondo was still getting him open looks in spite of the defense, he was just missing them all.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2011, 07:44:55 PM »

Offline Celtics/Run

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Bunch of haters ::)

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2011, 07:53:11 PM »

Offline Megatron

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Rondo has a decent jumper, its just not one of his strengths.

He needs to learn from Derrick Rose and drive into the paint and look for contact to get to the line and also get opposing bigs in foul trouble. Its amazing how easily our offense becomes, outside of Pierce, Rondo is the only one on the team with the ability to regularly penetrate the paint vs any opposition and get fouls.

For some reason, Rondo refuses to stay in "attack mode" he shys away from contact, maybe he needs to hit the gym more but thats the big difference between him and someone like Rose.

Rose wreaks havoc on our team because he continualy penetrates first, thats his go-to move, and he usually gets to the line and puts us in foul trouble.

Doc told Rondo to do this lately and he has been, but he isnt being consistent. Maybe Rondo just isnt that type of player, maybe he never will be, but he has the potential and hes not doing it, and its hurting the team right now.

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2011, 09:03:10 PM »

Offline ManUp

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wrong thread.  :P
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 07:37:31 PM by ManUp »

Re: Anyone see Rondo hit that transition jumper?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2011, 03:27:05 AM »

Offline GrandTheftRondo

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You know you're a bad shooter when you make a jumper from the foul line, and a new thread is started to discuss it. 

****