So who's MVP?

[soap07]

Also, in addition to those players I listed that are key for the Knicks "emergence" this year, the team also added Landry Fields.

[GreenFaith1819]

Right now? I'd say Amar'e Stoudemire, no doubt. The man has made NY relevant again.

His defense? I don't think Amar'e has EVER averaged more than 2 blocks a game, which he is doing so far. One of his biggest knocks during his career has been defense, and he's doing it so far.

The last Knick to average that many blocks? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last Knick to average this many blocks (and pts and rebs)was none other than Patrick Ewing.

Amar'e is getting it done in NY. Raymond Felton deserves a lot of praise for this, too - but Amar'e would get my vote hands down for MVP.

What in the world? A guy who's the best player on a  team that's two games over .500 in the Eastern Conference? He hasn't been good defensively.

I have to disagree.

Between his steals, blocks, and rebs? His willingness to play Center and bang with the centers of the NBA? The way he almost single-handedly torched Boston in NY?

Amar'e has stepped it up defensively and overall, I'd say. And he's done it with a coach that - while I think of as one of the best coaches in the NBA - D'Antoni is not known for pushing defense.

The result? Yes, you are right - the Knicks are only 1 or 2 games above 500.

But where were they at last year at this time?

What rebounds? He's averaging 8.6 a game. That's not very many for a guy his size playing on a team that plays as fast as his does. And the Knicks didn't just add Amar'e this offseason. There was also Felton, a healthy Galinari, the emergence of Wilson Chandler...and...the team is still only two games above .500. Amar'e is shooting his lowest FG% (51%) since 2003, his second year in the league.

Speaking of stepping it up rebounding, he's actually rebounding less than his career average.

Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting.

You're obviously trying to bait me with that comment.

"Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting."

Even YOU don't believe that.

Off the top of my head:

LeBron, Rose, Dirk, CP3, Kobe, Manu, Rondo, Dwight Howard, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Deron Williams, Carmelo. LaMarcus Aldrige...


All of those players have better MVP cases than Amar'e. All of them. I can think of more players if needed but sufficient to say, Amar'e should only be at the MVP press conference as a spectator. Again, his team is only two games above .500 in the East and he's not even having close to his best year.

So can you pull up stats? Proof of your argument?

[soap07]

Right now? I'd say Amar'e Stoudemire, no doubt. The man has made NY relevant again.

His defense? I don't think Amar'e has EVER averaged more than 2 blocks a game, which he is doing so far. One of his biggest knocks during his career has been defense, and he's doing it so far.

The last Knick to average that many blocks? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last Knick to average this many blocks (and pts and rebs)was none other than Patrick Ewing.

Amar'e is getting it done in NY. Raymond Felton deserves a lot of praise for this, too - but Amar'e would get my vote hands down for MVP.

What in the world? A guy who's the best player on a  team that's two games over .500 in the Eastern Conference? He hasn't been good defensively.

I have to disagree.

Between his steals, blocks, and rebs? His willingness to play Center and bang with the centers of the NBA? The way he almost single-handedly torched Boston in NY?

Amar'e has stepped it up defensively and overall, I'd say. And he's done it with a coach that - while I think of as one of the best coaches in the NBA - D'Antoni is not known for pushing defense.

The result? Yes, you are right - the Knicks are only 1 or 2 games above 500.

But where were they at last year at this time?

What rebounds? He's averaging 8.6 a game. That's not very many for a guy his size playing on a team that plays as fast as his does. And the Knicks didn't just add Amar'e this offseason. There was also Felton, a healthy Galinari, the emergence of Wilson Chandler...and...the team is still only two games above .500. Amar'e is shooting his lowest FG% (51%) since 2003, his second year in the league.

Speaking of stepping it up rebounding, he's actually rebounding less than his career average.

Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting.

You're obviously trying to bait me with that comment.

"Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting."

Even YOU don't believe that.

Off the top of my head:

LeBron, Rose, Dirk, CP3, Kobe, Manu, Rondo, Dwight Howard, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Deron Williams, Carmelo. LaMarcus Aldrige...


All of those players have better MVP cases than Amar'e. All of them. I can think of more players if needed but sufficient to say, Amar'e should only be at the MVP press conference as a spectator. Again, his team is only two games above .500 in the East and he's not even having close to his best year.

So can you pull up stats? Proof of your argument?

Um, yes. But I'm going to do that because it is a waste of time.

The onus on proving a ridiculous claim is on you - not on me to disprove it.

All of those players I just listed are on better teams and in most of those cases, putting up better numbers.

[GreenFaith1819]

Right now? I'd say Amar'e Stoudemire, no doubt. The man has made NY relevant again.

His defense? I don't think Amar'e has EVER averaged more than 2 blocks a game, which he is doing so far. One of his biggest knocks during his career has been defense, and he's doing it so far.

The last Knick to average that many blocks? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last Knick to average this many blocks (and pts and rebs)was none other than Patrick Ewing.

Amar'e is getting it done in NY. Raymond Felton deserves a lot of praise for this, too - but Amar'e would get my vote hands down for MVP.

What in the world? A guy who's the best player on a  team that's two games over .500 in the Eastern Conference? He hasn't been good defensively.

I have to disagree.

Between his steals, blocks, and rebs? His willingness to play Center and bang with the centers of the NBA? The way he almost single-handedly torched Boston in NY?

Amar'e has stepped it up defensively and overall, I'd say. And he's done it with a coach that - while I think of as one of the best coaches in the NBA - D'Antoni is not known for pushing defense.

The result? Yes, you are right - the Knicks are only 1 or 2 games above 500.

But where were they at last year at this time?

What rebounds? He's averaging 8.6 a game. That's not very many for a guy his size playing on a team that plays as fast as his does. And the Knicks didn't just add Amar'e this offseason. There was also Felton, a healthy Galinari, the emergence of Wilson Chandler...and...the team is still only two games above .500. Amar'e is shooting his lowest FG% (51%) since 2003, his second year in the league.

Speaking of stepping it up rebounding, he's actually rebounding less than his career average.

Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting.

You're obviously trying to bait me with that comment.

"Amar'e shouldn't even be in the top 10 in MVP voting."

Even YOU don't believe that.

Off the top of my head:

LeBron, Rose, Dirk, CP3, Kobe, Manu, Rondo, Dwight Howard, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Deron Williams, Carmelo. LaMarcus Aldrige...


All of those players have better MVP cases than Amar'e. All of them. I can think of more players if needed but sufficient to say, Amar'e should only be at the MVP press conference as a spectator. Again, his team is only two games above .500 in the East and he's not even having close to his best year.

So can you pull up stats? Proof of your argument?

Um, yes. But I'm going to do that because it is a waste of time.

The onus on proving a ridiculous claim is on you - not on me to disprove it.

All of those players I just listed are on better teams and in most of those cases, putting up better numbers.

I think the ONUS is on YOU to not call another poster's debate ridiculous.

Go read CelticBlog rules.

[soap07]

You're right. Calling it ridiculous was inappropriate.

I'll go with - it is an argument that is of a less than stellar caliber when put in comparison with other arguments about a similar topic that use facts and statistics as evidence rather than anecdotal evidence.

[Fafnir]

Considering that Amar'e barely has the Knicks above .500 I don't see how he can be the MVP.

He's putting up slightly down numbers compared to Pheonix efficiency wise, but with more shots.

Unless you thought he was an MVP candidate last year I don't see how you can say he is this year.

[GreenFaith1819]

You're right. Calling it ridiculous was inappropriate.

I'll go with - it is an argument that is of a less than stellar caliber when put in comparison with other arguments about a similar topic that use facts and statistics as evidence rather than anecdotal evidence.

Aren't most (if not all) arguments on here of "less than stellar caliber", lol?

This is an opinion blog. None of us here work at ESPN, I don't think.

And speaking of "facts and statistics"........

[Fafnir]

You're right. Calling it ridiculous was inappropriate.

I'll go with - it is an argument that is of a less than stellar caliber when put in comparison with other arguments about a similar topic that use facts and statistics as evidence rather than anecdotal evidence.

Aren't most (if not all) arguments on here of "less than stellar caliber", lol?

This is an opinion blog. None of us here work at ESPN, I don't think.

And speaking of "facts and statistics"........

Lets get back to the MVP and off the bickering, both of you.

[LB3533]

Even though Lebron may deserve to get MVP I find it funny that he has pretty much the same record and numbers as he did with the Cav's last year considering he is on a team with "the greatest trio of all time"

Miami is going to have the same record or worse than the Cavs last year. He is basically doing the same thing he did last year but with better teammates. And before someone says how impressive it is to do with other all stars on your team, if he ends up losing more games with said all-stars than with his previous Cavs teams, how is that really impressive?

It is impressive because it is their first year together.

There hasn't been 5 years of building up to back to back 60 win seasons like in Cleveland.

I remember when our Big 3 came together and they hadn't proven anything yet, but still dominated that season and won the chip. KG was in the top 3 for MVP and he would have won the MVP if he had put up Lebron type numbers.

It's looking like with the C's mounting injuries, the Heat will be the top team out of the East with 60+ wins (I have the Heat with 65 Wins) and Boston will be 2nd in the East (too many injuries and minutes will be managed for our starters).

Lebron will win MVP no doubt about it.

[Boris Badenov]

I'll try to be realistic *and* bring some stats into the discussion.

Based on history, Amare has essentially no shot. In the modern era only one MVP has come from a team with fewer than 54 wins (not counting the lockout year), and that was Kareem in 1976. The Lakers were 40-42 that year.

As a point of comparison, that year Kareem averaged 27.7 pts, 16.9 reb, 5.0 ast, 1.5 stl and 4.1 blk per game. He led the league in rebounds and blocks, was second in points, and led the league in both offensive and defensive win shares.

[Donoghus]

"The Amare for MVP" arguement has been purely a media fabrication based on the idea that a lot of writers keep pimping this "New York basketball is back" motto and see Amare as the poster child for this so-called resurgence. 

He's a lower Top 10 MVP candidate, IMO, but that doesn't mean much.  I don't think he can truly be taken seriously as a MVP.

[fairweatherfan]

I don't think he'll win it but my personal pick is Chris Paul.  No team has gotten more wins out of less talent than the Hornets, and Paul is largely the reason why.  He's taken a few mid- to high-level role players and a bunch of guys who would be scrubs on any other team and turned them into a potential top-4 seed in the West. 

[CelticG1]

Even though Lebron may deserve to get MVP I find it funny that he has pretty much the same record and numbers as he did with the Cav's last year considering he is on a team with "the greatest trio of all time"

Miami is going to have the same record or worse than the Cavs last year. He is basically doing the same thing he did last year but with better teammates. And before someone says how impressive it is to do with other all stars on your team, if he ends up losing more games with said all-stars than with his previous Cavs teams, how is that really impressive?

It is impressive because it is their first year together.

There hasn't been 5 years of building up to back to back 60 win seasons like in Cleveland.

I remember when our Big 3 came together and they hadn't proven anything yet, but still dominated that season and won the chip. KG was in the top 3 for MVP and he would have won the MVP if he had put up Lebron type numbers.

It's looking like with the C's mounting injuries, the Heat will be the top team out of the East with 60+ wins (I have the Heat with 65 Wins) and Boston will be 2nd in the East (too many injuries and minutes will be managed for our starters).

Lebron will win MVP no doubt about it.

I understand that for the most part but didn't that Celtics kind of prove that it doesn't take long to mesh? Give me a break the entire world would be shocked if the Heat were doing much worse than they are. The Cav's had new players coming and going all the time. Last year they added Shaq, Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker and Antoine Jamison. Also unlike Ray KG and Paul those 3 joined during the prime of there careers.

For years people have been making excuses for Lebrons Cav's teams saying that they don't have enough pieces they only have him  he needs more talent blah blah blah.

Now he is on a team with incredible talent and people are saying they need time to mesh? More excuses.

[moiso]

I can't stand the team and don't really like the guy, but it's got to be Lebron.  26, 7, and 7 while shooting a nice percentage on an excellent team and cooexisting with another similar player.  He's leading the league in PER by a healthy margin and his defense has been good.  He's not the sexy choice, but it should be Lebron.

Another guy who is not one of my favorites gets my second place vote- Dwight Howard.

[CelticG1]

I can't stand the team and don't really like the guy, but it's got to be Lebron.  26, 7, and 7 while shooting a nice percentage on an excellent team and cooexisting with another similar player.  He's leading the league in PER by a healthy margin and his defense has been good.  He's not the sexy choice, but it should be Lebron.

Another guy who is not one of my favorites gets my second place vote- Dwight Howard.

Derrick rose 25, 8, and 4 is pretty impressive. he isn's shooting as well but he has a completely different team and coach and was missing their center for most of the year. They have same record as heat (basically) and they also have the best defense in the league (although I admit Rose probably isnt the main reason for this). Rose and the Bulls have the same record as the heat and Rose is doing it with less talent.

I don't think anyone is a clear cut choice but I think Rose and Lebron are pretty even when discussing the eastern conference.