2/2/11 post game comments re: Rondo's FT's

[BballTim]

For all the great passes Rondo makes (and he makes a lot of them), he also detracts from the halfcourt offense by not needing to be guarded by the opposition.

  He's leading the league in assists by a decent margin. We score well when he plays and he assists about half the baskets he doesn't make. Obviously people get open on a regular basis when he's playing.

I don't necessarily think he "carried" the team as much as some did last year.

  Obviously not. But Cleveland spent the bulk of their series trying to figure out how to slow Rondo down and basically ran out of ideas. Remember LeBron talking about trying to guard Rondo because nobody else on the team could?
  

[zerophase]

I haven't heard this but I think it's great news. Rondo could easily be a 17ppg 11apg guy except he gives up layups just for the assists, a lot of times leading to turnovers. That part has actually been p---ing me for a very long. He needs to pick his shots more often and I'm glad the coaching staff is calling him out.

[GreenEnvy]

  Not to discredit those future HOFers but Rondo's not playing with PP/RA/KG/Shaq when they're 29 years old. If you think that they're still capable of carrying offenses like they did 5 years ago then I don't know what to say. Ray hits about 35% of his threes in the games Rondo misses and about 50% in the games Rondo plays. Who makes who look good?

Ray clearly needs a PG the most, and he hasn't had one without Rondo. The Celtics lack of depth at PG is the reason that number is so much lower.

The fact is KG, Paul and Ray are among the best at their positions as far as shooting goes.

Rondo needs the Big Three just as much (if not more) as they need him.

No other team would benefit Rondo as much as we do. Are we all that confident that no other PG can help us more than him?

[Celtic#9]

I think a rule like the "inflated stats because of the up tempo offense" rule can be applied with playing with a great team. If Rondo played with the Cavs, the Cavs still would suck. They would be better but not good. Because Rondo plays with players who can shoot the ball well, he is more likely to get an assist. There is a difference between passing it to Ray ALlen and passing it to Anthony Parker no matter where Rondo passes the ball. Basically, it is a give/take relationship, Rondo needs the Big 3 to hit shots and the Celtics need someone who can pass them the ball to hit shots. Neither could function without the other. Lucky for us we have both. We could always say what if we had D Will/CP3/Nash/Rose or we can accept the fact that even if we want it there is almost no chance it happens. Danny made it clear when he gave Rondo that long contract.

[GreenEnvy]

For all the great passes Rondo makes (and he makes a lot of them), he also detracts from the halfcourt offense by not needing to be guarded by the opposition.

  He's leading the league in assists by a decent margin. We score well when he plays and he assists about half the baskets he doesn't make. Obviously people get open on a regular basis when he's playing.

I don't necessarily think he "carried" the team as much as some did last year.

  Obviously not. But Cleveland spent the bulk of their series trying to figure out how to slow Rondo down and basically ran out of ideas. Remember LeBron talking about trying to guard Rondo because nobody else on the team could?
  

He's leading the league in assists more because of his great teammates than his great playmaking abilities. Ray gets himself open, so it's just a matter of finding him at the right time. Not an easy task, but not the only player with that skill-set, especially after 4 seasons of chemistry.

Everyone gets open despite Rondo, who NEVER commands a double-team. They are a great passing team from top to bottom. If he somehow musters up the courage to actually penetrate, again, either they let him put up a contested shot (if our players haven't drawn the defense out) or they simply hack him and make him earn it.


For as easy are Rondo makes it for the everyone with his precise passing, he allows for help defense on everyone. A player who can keep the opposing PG honest would make KG and Pierce's lives a lot easier too.



Unless Rondo has the ball, he is borderline useless. That's not true of anyone else, even Perk for his screens. Ray, KG, Pierce all need to kept close because give them too much room and they will burn you.


I never take much stock in LeBron's words of wisdom. IIRC, didn't he defend him and do a semi-decent job?

[BballTim]

The Celtics offense is focused around Rondo more than any other one person. Rip him from the team and we will struggle. But still, he relies on other players to make shots. Only Perk, Shaq, and Baby really get easy points solely because of Rondo.

What do you mean he relies on other players to make shots? He's a PG, it's his job to make sure he gets the ball to his players and distribute/pass/ect. He's not asked to score the ball because Ray, Pierce, and KG are obviously all better options.

But it's been shown that when one or more of those guys go out, he is more than capable of stepping up his offense and looking for his shot. Look at the series against the Bulls in 09'.

I never said we could sub any decent PG and get the same level of efficiency. Paul can win us games on his own. Ray can shoot lights out to a win. Garnett can take over on both ends. Rondo relies on everyone else.

Didn't mean to imply that you did, was talking in general. And again, Rondo does not rely on everyone else...he has taken over plenty of games for us. He basically won the Cavs series last year single handedly.

We don't ask him to score mainly because he really can't. How many times over the years have we seen Pierce or Ray or KG take a poor shot because Perk and Rondo aren't capable. Granted, most centers can't. But most, if not all PG's should be decent shooters. If Rondo was, he'd be far and away the best PG in the league.

  If you look at combined scoring over the last two years in the playoffs, PP gets 19.6 a game, Ray gets 16.9 and KG got 15 a game last year. Rondo gets 16.2. He's got 10 games over 20 points in that time, and 15 or more 21 times in 38 games.

[ejk3489]

I thought KG was the biggest difference in the Cleveland series. Everyone knew we had the advantage at PG, but many believed the PF spot would be close. Garnett thoroughly abused Jamison on both ends.

They both were very important to us winning the series, but I still give the edge to Rondo...anyways, it's not really important.

He averaged 10.1 PPG with Garnett out this season. That's less than his season average. 12.5 APG during that stretch, exactly his average. Hardly stepping up IMO.

Well he's been dealing with injuries all year which definitely effected his ability to get to the rim and score. I was talking more about last year during the stretch in late December and January where we dealed with injuries to Pierce and KG.

Here are some of his game logs:

@ORL 17pts 8asts 13rbs
@LAC 20pts 6asts
@GSW 30pts 15asts
@MIA 25 pts 8asts
@TOR 22pts 13asts 10rbs
ATL 26pts 7asts
MIA 22pts 14asts 6rbs

He can score, he just doesn't always have to.

If Rondo was on the Hornets, I doubt he is averaging 12.5 assists. If CP3 is on the Celtics, I'm extremely confident we are still first in the East.

Of course not...Chris Paul doesn't even average 12.5 assists on the Hornets. But if you put him on a past paced team like the Knicks, PHX, or GSW I could easily see him averaging around 10 assists per game.

[cons]

rondo's got a complex game, but i think we can all agree that better free throw shooting can only be a plus - and the only way to get better at shooting free throws in a game is to actually take them in a gameld be - i'm sure he can knock down 100 in a row at practice.
anyway, i just hope he does take more because at some point in a close game in the playoffs it could be big.

[BballTim]

  Not to discredit those future HOFers but Rondo's not playing with PP/RA/KG/Shaq when they're 29 years old. If you think that they're still capable of carrying offenses like they did 5 years ago then I don't know what to say. Ray hits about 35% of his threes in the games Rondo misses and about 50% in the games Rondo plays. Who makes who look good?

Ray clearly needs a PG the most, and he hasn't had one without Rondo. The Celtics lack of depth at PG is the reason that number is so much lower.

The fact is KG, Paul and Ray are among the best at their positions as far as shooting goes.

Rondo needs the Big Three just as much (if not more) as they need him.

No other team would benefit Rondo as much as we do. Are we all that confident that no other PG can help us more than him?

  This is a bit ridiculous. Rondo would be absolutely devastating in the open court, if only he had someone to run with him. His two choices on the break are currently take it to the hole or wait for his teammates to make it into the frontcourt so he can hit them for a trailing three. People claim that Rondo would struggle without the big three when he's on a team that's not built to utilize his strengths.

[RJ87]

  Not to discredit those future HOFers but Rondo's not playing with PP/RA/KG/Shaq when they're 29 years old. If you think that they're still capable of carrying offenses like they did 5 years ago then I don't know what to say. Ray hits about 35% of his threes in the games Rondo misses and about 50% in the games Rondo plays. Who makes who look good?

Ray clearly needs a PG the most, and he hasn't had one without Rondo. The Celtics lack of depth at PG is the reason that number is so much lower.

The fact is KG, Paul and Ray are among the best at their positions as far as shooting goes.

Rondo needs the Big Three just as much (if not more) as they need him.

No other team would benefit Rondo as much as we do. Are we all that confident that no other PG can help us more than him?

  This is a bit ridiculous. Rondo would be absolutely devastating in the open court, if only he had someone to run with him. His two choices on the break are currently take it to the hole or wait for his teammates to make it into the frontcourt so he can hit them for a trailing three. People claim that Rondo would struggle without the big three when he's on a team that's not built to utilize his strengths.

Get out of my head, man. I've been saying this forever, lol.
A lot of ppl claim that Rondo won't be this good when the Big 3 are done, but I think he'll excel with a team put around him that actually exploits his strength - quickness, athleticism and floor vision. Right now, the C's are best when they're playing in a half court, slower offense. Rondo manages to make it work even though he's clearly not that type of player. I just don't get the need to undervale Rondo's talent all the time...

[LilRip]

Rondo with the Big 3 is like a chicken and egg question. In the end, i think the correct answer is that they play well off each other. Rondo is a terrific passer, but i don't think it's farfetched to say that CP3 or Nash couldn't have done the same in our system. Rondo is on par with those guys. The reason our offense looks so good so often is because we have very smart players and very skilled players. The pass is perfect and the shot is perfect.

What some people often overlook is that since defenders often sag on him, this gives Rondo clear sight-lines to see the rest of his teammates. Since there's no defensive pressure on him, it makes it easier for him to deliver the perfect pass.

Oh, and bballtim, don't discredit the C's delayed transition game. That's pretty hard to stop, and it still plays to Rondo's strengths. i'll take this Boston team with Rondo at the helm, rather than having a running team like Golden State or Toronto with Rondo at the helm.

[Celtics18]

[quote author=ejk3489 It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.

Not to discredit Rondo (I understand the value that he adds), but he is playing with future HOF'ers who can score the basketball.  PP, RA, KG played most of their careers without Rondo and faired pretty well with PG's of less caliber.

Back to the original topic; Rondo was settling for jumpers because teams leave him wide open but he wasn't making them consistently.  That airball against LAL was pretty bad.  Why not go to his strength which is taking it to the hole?  Also we've been trying to get teams into the penalty quicker with Shaq but that hasn't been going as well lately so they put Rondo up to the task.  Even Ray was driving more in the LAL game despite hoisting 7 3 point attempts.      


[/quote]

Let's stop perpetuating the myth that Rondo isn't hitting open jumpers.  According to HoopsData.com, Rondo is shooting 46% from 16-23 feet for the season which is top 5 among point guards playing more than 20 minutes a game.  

[CbrewEra]

It's great to see Rondo being aggressive like that. Recently, I've been asking myself why it is so evident that he switches his game to a completely different gear in the playoffs.  It's safe to say he is much more reserved with his offense in the regular season, and tries to get others involved.

I think it is important for him to be the most agressive when he gets on the floor with Nate at the 2 and other bench guys.  He is certainly capable of picking up the offensive load at times and getting to the rim at will against most teams.

[BballTim]

Rondo with the Big 3 is like a chicken and egg question. In the end, i think the correct answer is that they play well off each other. Rondo is a terrific passer, but i don't think it's farfetched to say that CP3 or Nash couldn't have done the same in our system. Rondo is on par with those guys. The reason our offense looks so good so often is because we have very smart players and very skilled players. The pass is perfect and the shot is perfect.

What some people often overlook is that since defenders often sag on him, this gives Rondo clear sight-lines to see the rest of his teammates. Since there's no defensive pressure on him, it makes it easier for him to deliver the perfect pass.

Oh, and bballtim, don't discredit the C's delayed transition game. That's pretty hard to stop, and it still plays to Rondo's strengths. i'll take this Boston team with Rondo at the helm, rather than having a running team like Golden State or Toronto with Rondo at the helm.

  I'm not discrediting the delayed transition game. I'm just saying that if you put some younger, more athletic players that can run the break better with Rondo and we'd run teams out of the building.

[LooseCannon]

Get out of my head, man. I've been saying this forever, lol.
A lot of ppl claim that Rondo won't be this good when the Big 3 are done, but I think he'll excel with a team put around him that actually exploits his strength - quickness, athleticism and floor vision. Right now, the C's are best when they're playing in a half court, slower offense. Rondo manages to make it work even though he's clearly not that type of player. I just don't get the need to undervale Rondo's talent all the time...

I actually think that KG, PP, and RA complement Rondo's skills very well.  On offense, you want to surround Rondo with guys with good hands who can hit jump shots.  He needs guys who can hit transition threes more than he needs athletic dunkers.  I don't think Rondo would better on a Mike D'Antoni-coached team, except in a fantasy sports sort of way.  Trying to fit Rondo into a more up-tempo offense takes away the advantage given by his patience and intelligence and probably also fails to take advantage of his defensive superiority.

Post Big Three, Ainge should seek to surround Rondo with the best catch-and-shoot wing who can play within the defensive system and the best big who can stretch the defense with a perimeter shot while also being a solid defender.