2/2/11 post game comments re: Rondo's FT's

[cons]

Just curious what other people thought of the comment after last nights game that Rondo had been challenged by the coaching staff to get 10 free throws attempted during the game.

Seemed noticebale that he was driving to score/ shoot more and probably could've had more FT's if he got a couple more calls.

Personally, I though it was a great idea from Doc - not only would it make him more agressive -which I think co-incides with the whole team playing better, But also for as great as he is going into the playoffs with a starting PG who shoots less then 50% from the line still scares me. Seems like it'd be good for him to get more attempts - I think obviously he Can make them, just needs to shoot more to get his confidence up.


Any thoughts?

[footey]

Just curious what other people thought of the comment after last nights game that Rondo had been challenged by the coaching staff to get 10 free throws attempted during the game.

Seemed noticebale that he was driving to score/ shoot more and probably could've had more FT's if he got a couple more calls.

Personally, I though it was a great idea from Doc - not only would it make him more agressive -which I think co-incides with the whole team playing better, But also for as great as he is going into the playoffs with a starting PG who shoots less then 50% from the line still scares me. Seems like it'd be good for him to get more attempts - I think obviously he Can make them, just needs to shoot more to get his confidence up.


Any thoughts?

had not heard this but makes some sense.

[GreenEnvy]

I don't mind him not attacking because of his inability to nail the FT's. Because of how efficient this team is, I'd prefer ball movement until a good shot is found then him at the line with a decent chance at 1 point.

As great as Rondo is, he is sometimes frustrating to watch. Sure he racks up assists, but a lot of guys would with the starters we have. Any doubt Nash wouldn't average close to 14 APG with KG, Ray, Paul, and Shaq? CP3 and DWill would be 12+ as well IMO.

But those guys would not allow the defense to sag off him, because they can all bury a wide open shot from anywhere, OR drive to the rim with the ability to finish, draw the foul (and hit their FT's at a good clip), or find the open man.

On defense, I find him gambling way too much for steals lately instead of just staying in front of his man. With such a great defense behind him, his mistakes are masked. Letting someone like Derek Fisher get to the rim at any time is inexcusable.

Rondo is the "best player on the C's" when everyone else around him are making their shots. When they aren't, he can't will this team to a win, because he can't knock down shots with regularity and is unwilling to attack the rim.

Basically, Rondo is only great when everyone else is.

[17wasEZ]

I don't mind him not attacking because of his inability to nail the FT's. Because of how efficient this team is, I'd prefer ball movement until a good shot is found then him at the line with a decent chance at 1 point.

As great as Rondo is, he is sometimes frustrating to watch. Sure he racks up assists, but a lot of guys would with the starters we have. Any doubt Nash wouldn't average close to 14 APG with KG, Ray, Paul, and Shaq? CP3 and DWill would be 12+ as well IMO.

But those guys would not allow the defense to sag off him, because they can all bury a wide open shot from anywhere, OR drive to the rim with the ability to finish, draw the foul (and hit their FT's at a good clip), or find the open man.

On defense, I find him gambling way too much for steals lately instead of just staying in front of his man. With such a great defense behind him, his mistakes are masked. Letting someone like Derek Fisher get to the rim at any time is inexcusable.

Rondo is the "best player on the C's" when everyone else around him are making their shots. When they aren't, he can't will this team to a win, because he can't knock down shots with regularity and is unwilling to attack the rim.

Basically, Rondo is only great when everyone else is.

I agree!

[ejk3489]

Basically, Rondo is only great when everyone else is.

I'd argue the exact opposite. The Big Three play well when Rondo is playing at a high level. When he doesn't (or isn't playing at all) our team as a whole struggles a lot. Besides Pierce, no one on our team can create anything for themselves. And even his FG% drops when Rondo's out:

Rondo has appeared in 33 of the Celtics' 44 games this season, and the numbers illustrate the type of effect he has on the team's offensive production, particularly that of Pierce, Allen, and O'Neal. In the games Rondo has played, Pierce has shot 52.4 percent from the floor, compared to 48.1 percent in the games Rondo has been absent from. Similarly, Allen has shot 51 percent from the field in the contests Rondo has played in, compared to 49.2 percent on Rondo-less nights. O'Neal, meanwhile, has shot an outstanding 70.7 percent from the floor in the 23 games he and Rondo have shared the floor, and a still impressive, yet appreciably lower 61 percent in the games he's played in without Rondo.

The Celtics have shot 51.2 percent from the field in the games Rondo has played in, compared to just 47.4 percent in the time he missed. Boston has averaged 26.1 assists per game with Rondo, and only 20.8 when he was out (which would rank them 18th in the NBA, tied with the Cleveland Cavaliers, who have lost 18 straight games). Furthermore, the Celtics have scored exactly 1,300 field goals in Rondo's 33 games, and 66 percent of those baskets were assisted on. In the 11 games Rondo missed, the Celtics produced 397 field goals, and only 57.6 percent of them were assisted on.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4680008/on-point-rondo-key-to-cs-sizzling-shooting

It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.

[greenpride32]

[quote author=ejk3489 It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.
[/quote]

Not to discredit Rondo (I understand the value that he adds), but he is playing with future HOF'ers who can score the basketball.  PP, RA, KG played most of their careers without Rondo and faired pretty well with PG's of less caliber.

Back to the original topic; Rondo was settling for jumpers because teams leave him wide open but he wasn't making them consistently.  That airball against LAL was pretty bad.  Why not go to his strength which is taking it to the hole?  Also we've been trying to get teams into the penalty quicker with Shaq but that hasn't been going as well lately so they put Rondo up to the task.  Even Ray was driving more in the LAL game despite hoisting 7 3 point attempts.     

[2short]

I don't mind him not attacking because of his inability to nail the FT's. Because of how efficient this team is, I'd prefer ball movement until a good shot is found then him at the line with a decent chance at 1 point.

As great as Rondo is, he is sometimes frustrating to watch. Sure he racks up assists, but a lot of guys would with the starters we have. Any doubt Nash wouldn't average close to 14 APG with KG, Ray, Paul, and Shaq? CP3 and DWill would be 12+ as well IMO.

But those guys would not allow the defense to sag off him, because they can all bury a wide open shot from anywhere, OR drive to the rim with the ability to finish, draw the foul (and hit their FT's at a good clip), or find the open man.

On defense, I find him gambling way too much for steals lately instead of just staying in front of his man. With such a great defense behind him, his mistakes are masked. Letting someone like Derek Fisher get to the rim at any time is inexcusable.

Rondo is the "best player on the C's" when everyone else around him are making their shots. When they aren't, he can't will this team to a win, because he can't knock down shots with regularity and is unwilling to attack the rim.

Basically, Rondo is only great when everyone else is.

I disagree on the last line and previous paragraph.  This is a player who carried the entire team like no celtic has since larry bird, in the playoffs and he's still young.   To me its pretty noticable how easy PP and Ray can go into their shots when the pass is delivered.  Big difference when nate passes them the ball and its at hip level slightly behind them etc.  The only pg in the nba who passes as well as rondo is nash.  Rondo seems to have taken more than a few pointers from a nash highlight reel, passing with both hands, he makes really hard passes look easy etc. 
As far as ball movement instead of rondo driving to a point sure, I don't think the celtics can have a set offense any way.  Last night seemed like they were trying to get shaq going and he was stinking it up.  Sacs guards proved they couldn't stay w/ rondo or ray driving so the celtics exploited those matchups.
To me this is what makes this team so great.  Take (insert celtic)  away from our offense we can hurt teams in soooo many ways.  When Delonte is back things will only get better.

[ejk3489]

Not to discredit Rondo (I understand the value that he adds), but he is playing with future HOF'ers who can score the basketball.  PP, RA, KG played most of their careers without Rondo and faired pretty well with PG's of less caliber.

Right, but they're not 27 or 28 anymore...they can't play at a high level every night like they used to. That's not to say they aren't great anymore, Ray and Pierce are both have career seasons. But having a guy like Rondo who knows the offense and can hit them with passes in just the right spot has really helped their games. They no longer have to worry about the offense (in the creating sense) because Rondo is giving them such easy looks almost every time down the court.

Rondo IMO has prolonged their careers (and our Championship window)

[GreenEnvy]

Basically, Rondo is only great when everyone else is.

I'd argue the exact opposite. The Big Three play well when Rondo is playing at a high level. When he doesn't (or isn't playing at all) our team as a whole struggles a lot. Besides Pierce, no one on our team can create anything for themselves. And even his FG% drops when Rondo's out:

Rondo has appeared in 33 of the Celtics' 44 games this season, and the numbers illustrate the type of effect he has on the team's offensive production, particularly that of Pierce, Allen, and O'Neal. In the games Rondo has played, Pierce has shot 52.4 percent from the floor, compared to 48.1 percent in the games Rondo has been absent from. Similarly, Allen has shot 51 percent from the field in the contests Rondo has played in, compared to 49.2 percent on Rondo-less nights. O'Neal, meanwhile, has shot an outstanding 70.7 percent from the floor in the 23 games he and Rondo have shared the floor, and a still impressive, yet appreciably lower 61 percent in the games he's played in without Rondo.

The Celtics have shot 51.2 percent from the field in the games Rondo has played in, compared to just 47.4 percent in the time he missed. Boston has averaged 26.1 assists per game with Rondo, and only 20.8 when he was out (which would rank them 18th in the NBA, tied with the Cleveland Cavaliers, who have lost 18 straight games). Furthermore, the Celtics have scored exactly 1,300 field goals in Rondo's 33 games, and 66 percent of those baskets were assisted on. In the 11 games Rondo missed, the Celtics produced 397 field goals, and only 57.6 percent of them were assisted on.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4680008/on-point-rondo-key-to-cs-sizzling-shooting

It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.

Um, last time I checked, 48% by a SF, 49% from a SG, and 61% from a center are pretty good, ESPECIALLY considering the "PG" they had during those games were Nate and Bradley, both of which aren't natural floor generals.

The Celtics offense is focused around Rondo more than any other one person. Rip him from the team and we will struggle. But still, he relies on other players to make shots. Only Perk, Shaq, and Baby really get easy points solely because of Rondo.

I never said we could sub any decent PG and get the same level of efficiency. Paul can win us games on his own. Ray can shoot lights out to a win. Garnett can take over on both ends. Rondo relies on everyone else.

He's like Howard. Great player. But your team will struggle if he is the best player on the team because they can't score on their own. Rondo can't even break down defenses nearly as well as he should because they aren't afraid to foul him.

I disagree on the last line and previous paragraph.  This is a player who carried the entire team like no celtic has since larry bird, in the playoffs and he's still young.   To me its pretty noticable how easy PP and Ray can go into their shots when the pass is delivered.  Big difference when nate passes them the ball and its at hip level slightly behind them etc.  The only pg in the nba who passes as well as rondo is nash.  Rondo seems to have taken more than a few pointers from a nash highlight reel, passing with both hands, he makes really hard passes look easy etc. 
As far as ball movement instead of rondo driving to a point sure, I don't think the celtics can have a set offense any way.  Last night seemed like they were trying to get shaq going and he was stinking it up.  Sacs guards proved they couldn't stay w/ rondo or ray driving so the celtics exploited those matchups.
To me this is what makes this team so great.  Take (insert celtic)  away from our offense we can hurt teams in soooo many ways.  When Delonte is back things will only get better.

There's a big difference between Nate and Rondo. There's also big difference between Nate and about 25 real PG's.

For all the great passes Rondo makes (and he makes a lot of them), he also detracts from the halfcourt offense by not needing to be guarded by the opposition.

I don't necessarily think he "carried" the team as much as some did last year.

[BballTim]

[quote author=ejk3489 It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.

Not to discredit Rondo (I understand the value that he adds), but he is playing with future HOF'ers who can score the basketball.  PP, RA, KG played most of their careers without Rondo and faired pretty well with PG's of less caliber.

Back to the original topic; Rondo was settling for jumpers because teams leave him wide open but he wasn't making them consistently.  That airball against LAL was pretty bad.  Why not go to his strength which is taking it to the hole?  Also we've been trying to get teams into the penalty quicker with Shaq but that hasn't been going as well lately so they put Rondo up to the task.  Even Ray was driving more in the LAL game despite hoisting 7 3 point attempts.     


[/quote]

  Not to discredit those future HOFers but Rondo's not playing with PP/RA/KG/Shaq when they're 29 years old. If you think that they're still capable of carrying offenses like they did 5 years ago then I don't know what to say. Ray hits about 35% of his threes in the games Rondo misses and about 50% in the games Rondo plays. Who makes who look good?

[apc]

a starting PG who shoots less then 50% from the line still scares me.

just FYI shooting 3/3 last night Rondo is officially better than 50% 

[ejk3489]

The Celtics offense is focused around Rondo more than any other one person. Rip him from the team and we will struggle. But still, he relies on other players to make shots. Only Perk, Shaq, and Baby really get easy points solely because of Rondo.

What do you mean he relies on other players to make shots? He's a PG, it's his job to make sure he gets the ball to his players and distribute/pass/ect. He's not asked to score the ball because Ray, Pierce, and KG are obviously all better options.

But it's been shown that when one or more of those guys go out, he is more than capable of stepping up his offense and looking for his shot. Look at the series against the Bulls in 09'.

I never said we could sub any decent PG and get the same level of efficiency. Paul can win us games on his own. Ray can shoot lights out to a win. Garnett can take over on both ends. Rondo relies on everyone else.

Didn't mean to imply that you did, was talking in general. And again, Rondo does not rely on everyone else...he has taken over plenty of games for us. He basically won the Cavs series last year single handedly.

a starting PG who shoots less then 50% from the line still scares me.

just FYI shooting 3/3 last night Rondo is officially better than 50%  

And he's 8/9 the last 3 games. Small sample size, but still encouraging.

[winsomme]

[quote author=ejk3489 It's a good article that shows just how important he is to our offense. I still don't understand people that think you could sub in any decent point guard on the Celtics and expect them to produce the same amount that Rondo does every night.

Not to discredit Rondo (I understand the value that he adds), but he is playing with future HOF'ers who can score the basketball.  PP, RA, KG played most of their careers without Rondo and faired pretty well with PG's of less caliber.

Back to the original topic; Rondo was settling for jumpers because teams leave him wide open but he wasn't making them consistently.  That airball against LAL was pretty bad.  Why not go to his strength which is taking it to the hole?  Also we've been trying to get teams into the penalty quicker with Shaq but that hasn't been going as well lately so they put Rondo up to the task.  Even Ray was driving more in the LAL game despite hoisting 7 3 point attempts.     

  Not to discredit those future HOFers but Rondo's not playing with PP/RA/KG/Shaq when they're 29 years old. If you think that they're still capable of carrying offenses like they did 5 years ago then I don't know what to say. Ray hits about 35% of his threes in the games Rondo misses and about 50% in the games Rondo plays. Who makes who look good?
[/quote]

TP.

fortunately the people who matter (ie Doc, Danny, KG, PP, Ray, etc) understand the importance of having a healthy Rondo in the game running the show.

[BballTim]

As great as Rondo is, he is sometimes frustrating to watch. Sure he racks up assists, but a lot of guys would with the starters we have. Any doubt Nash wouldn't average close to 14 APG with KG, Ray, Paul, and Shaq? CP3 and DWill would be 12+ as well IMO.

  Those guys shoot more than Rondo so they'll pass the ball less often than he does. The other Celts pass the ball more than most of the guys those pgs are playing with now so if they pass as much as they do now fewer of their passes will result in a shot by the recipient. I don't see how these will add up to those pgs averaging more assists a game than they do now.

[GreenEnvy]

The Celtics offense is focused around Rondo more than any other one person. Rip him from the team and we will struggle. But still, he relies on other players to make shots. Only Perk, Shaq, and Baby really get easy points solely because of Rondo.

What do you mean he relies on other players to make shots? He's a PG, it's his job to make sure he gets the ball to his players and distribute/pass/ect. He's not asked to score the ball because Ray, Pierce, and KG are obviously all better options.

But it's been shown that when one or more of those guys go out, he is more than capable of stepping up his offense and looking for his shot. Look at the series against the Bulls in 09'.

I never said we could sub any decent PG and get the same level of efficiency. Paul can win us games on his own. Ray can shoot lights out to a win. Garnett can take over on both ends. Rondo relies on everyone else.

Didn't mean to imply that you did, was talking in general. And again, Rondo does not rely on everyone else...he has taken over plenty of games for us. He basically won the Cavs series last year single handedly.

We don't ask him to score mainly because he really can't. How many times over the years have we seen Pierce or Ray or KG take a poor shot because Perk and Rondo aren't capable. Granted, most centers can't. But most, if not all PG's should be decent shooters. If Rondo was, he'd be far and away the best PG in the league.

Countless times you can see DWill, CP3 or Rose take over games when they know their supporting cast isn't bringing it.

I thought KG was the biggest difference in the Cleveland series. Everyone knew we had the advantage at PG, but many believed the PF spot would be close. Garnett thoroughly abused Jamison on both ends.

He averaged 10.1 PPG with Garnett out this season. That's less than his season average. 12.5 APG during that stretch, exactly his average. Hardly stepping up IMO.


If Rondo was on the Hornets, I doubt he is averaging 12.5 assists. If CP3 is on the Celtics, I'm extremely confident we are still first in the East.