How bad is Cleveland?

[wdleehi]

After winning 7 games the 1st month of the season (7-10) they have won one game in the past two months.


1 and 30


Including the current 21 game losing streak.




I this approaching historically bad?  Has any team drop this hard in one season before?

[Who]

Without Varejao, the Cavs are 10-12 win pace team.

[Roy H.]

I this approaching historically bad?  Has any team drop this hard in one season before?

The only other example of a team going from very, very good to very, very bad was the 1999 Bulls, who went from 62 wins (and a title) to 13 victories.

[fairweatherfan]

Yes, it's the worst dropoff ever, and like the 4th worst losing streak (3rd worst in a single season).

What's maybe sadder is the longest losing streak ever is held by...the Cleveland Cavaliers.  

The only other example of a team going from very, very good to very, very bad was the 1999 Bulls, who went from 62 wins (and a title) to 13 victories.

13 wins in a 50 game season though.  That translates to about 21 wins out of 82, which the Cavs look like they'll fall well short of.

[Lucky17]

I feel for them.

When we had that 18-game losing streak a few years back, I still had hope for the future, believing that our guys would eventually grow stronger for it.

I look at that Cleveland roster, and see only a few players worth keeping. That team needs an overhaul. I'm sure it's coming, but I'm also sure it's going to take a while.

[Surferdad]

I feel for them.

When we had that 18-game losing streak a few years back, I still had hope for the future, believing that our guys would eventually grow stronger for it.

I look at that Cleveland roster, and see only a few players worth keeping. That team needs an overhaul. I'm sure it's coming, but I'm also sure it's going to take a while.

Yes they have a few good pieces to build around.  I think Hickson is a legit starter and could be a star someday.  Problems is, "good pieces" is not enough these days.  You need a few super-elite players, not just good players.  Secondly, you need depth.  You also need great coaching.  Byron Scott is OK but not an elite coach.

[Fan from VT]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

[Redz]

.

[Boris Badenov]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

Perhaps Big Z was more of a difference-maker than we understood.

[Moranis]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao are out as a result of injury.  Cleveland didn't get this bad until the injuries started coming.

[Fan from VT]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao are out as a result of injury.  Cleveland didn't get this bad until the injuries started coming.

...and they have Jamison for all their games this year instead of 25 last year, and had west for 60 and shaq for 53. Verejao, Lebron, Anthony Parker and JJ hickson were the only cavs to play more than 70 games in '10. Sure, we can go back and forth about the details, but really this is the same basic team minus lebron that is headed for a historically bad turnaround quite similar to the bulls losing jordan. Injuries happened to the bulls, injuries happened to the cavs this year, and injuries happened to the cavs last year too.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

First and foremost, the Bulls went from a Championship team to a non-playoff team.  Never have Lebron's teams have been championship teams, in large part b/c Lebron has yet to prove he is a Champion!

Secondly, the Cavs only became really bad this year when they suffered a number of injuries.  Before that they were at least passable.

[Fan from VT]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

First and foremost, the Bulls went from a Championship team to a non-playoff team.  Never have Lebron's teams have been championship teams, in large part b/c Lebron has yet to prove he is a Champion!

Secondly, the Cavs only became really bad this year when they suffered a number of injuries.  Before that they were at least passable.

Injuries inevitably happen to every team for some stretch; therefore, by definition, every team in the league is "better than their record" anyway. The 61 win cavs were better than the 61 wins they got in '10 because, as above, only 4 players were healthy for more than 70 games. So if you artificially bump up this year's wins for the cavs, you have to bump up last year's too!

[wdleehi]

Really really bad. It (unfortunately) makes Lebron's last few seasons even more impressive. And before we get the "Lebron wasn't the only difference!" crowd fired up:
1. Come on.
2. The bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and went from .756 to .260. The Cavs lost Lebron, Delonte and Shaq and went from .744 to .167 (so far). There is absolutely no way that Shaq+Delonte in 2010 is as valuable as Pippen+Rodman in '98, making the cleveland dropoff even more incredible.

First and foremost, the Bulls went from a Championship team to a non-playoff team.  Never have Lebron's teams have been championship teams, in large part b/c Lebron has yet to prove he is a Champion!

Secondly, the Cavs only became really bad this year when they suffered a number of injuries.  Before that they were at least passable.

So Sub-500 is passable in the NBA now a days?


They lost more then Lebron, but his lose was the difference between best record in the NBA and sub 500. 


If the Lakers lost Kobe, they are still above 500.

If the Celtics lost one of the following; Pierce, KG or Rondo; they are still above 500.





That's the difference between champions and good regular season.  More then one top player.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

If Shaq (gave effort), Z, AV, Dwest, and Mo was still playing for them, I bet that they would be about .500 team. They wouldn't contend w/o LeBron but it would not be all that bad, especially since the new system doesn't revolve around one player. If LeBron was the only missing piece from last season I know they could be at the least 8th seed! "KarmaGate" goes to show how big of an ego boost the Cavs bad playing is for LeBron. His ego is bigger than his play/will to win... I hope it bites him in his butt. Some of these comments mimic LeBrons thoughts... he wins alone while carrying his teammates on his back. Reason why I like the Celtics (aside from Shaq), they realize it takes a TEAM... of course some players are more vital than others but you can't win with ONE player!