Simmons Article: Kobe just one star defying aging curve

[Michael Anthony]

Pretty interesting read, as usual, from the Sports Guy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110128&sportCat=nba

It got me to thinking - how can anybody write that article today without mentioning the posibility of performance enhancing drugs?

No accusations here, but after what happenned in baseball, haven't we learned to question trends of unatural physical performance?

Beyond the guys he mentions (Kobe, Pierce, Allen, Nowitski, Nash), there are plenty of other guys playing much better than expected, for a much longer period:

Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Billups, Wallace, Carter, Hill, Duncan, Ginobili...

[soap07]

Pretty interesting read, as usual, from the Sports Guy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110128&sportCat=nba

It got me to thinking - how can anybody write that article today without mentioning the posibility of performance enhancing drugs?

No accusations here, but after what happenned in baseball, haven't we learned to question trends of unatural physical performance?

Beyond the guys he mentions (Kobe, Pierce, Allen, Nowitski, Nash), there are plenty of other guys playing much better than expected, for a much longer period:

Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Billups, Wallace, Carter, Hill, Duncan, Ginobili...

Great point, didn't think of that. Although, I would note that Shaq, KG, Kidd, Hill and Duncan have been hit pretty hard with age. Think of where they were in their primes and where they are now. Pierce, Ray, Kobe are still at the top of their games which isn't really the case with the former.

[NoraG1]

Pretty interesting read, as usual, from the Sports Guy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110128&sportCat=nba

It got me to thinking - how can anybody write that article today without mentioning the posibility of performance enhancing drugs?

No accusations here, but after what happenned in baseball, haven't we learned to question trends of unatural physical performance?

Beyond the guys he mentions (Kobe, Pierce, Allen, Nowitski, Nash), there are plenty of other guys playing much better than expected, for a much longer period:

Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Billups, Wallace, Carter, Hill, Duncan, Ginobili...

Great point, didn't think of that. Although, I would note that Shaq, KG, Kidd, Hill and Duncan have been hit pretty hard with age. Think of where they were in their primes and where they are now. Pierce, Ray, Kobe are still at the top of their games which isn't really the case with the former.

Bigs age alot quicker then shooters

[papa shuttlesworth]

Bigs age alot quicker then shooters

I would argue the opposite.  I think it would be easier to play effectively if you are huge than if your game relies on quickness.  I think that's why there are usually tons of old power forwards and centers like Kurt Thomas hanging around and relatively few guards.

[Michael Anthony]

Hollinger wrote an article a few years back that showed the two biggest factors determining longevity: height and shooting ability.

That being said, we are lucky to have so many good players - old and young - in the league. To be honest, if PED's are involved, I do not care. They make the product better.

I just thought it was odd that Simmons chose not to mention PED's in this day and age.

[BballTim]

  He's basing everything on seasons played, not on age.

[papa shuttlesworth]

I just thought it was odd that Simmons chose not to mention PED's in this day and age.

He actually mentions them in passing.  He says something like "As long as they're not having what OJ Mayo and Rashard Lewis are having"

But you're right, PEDs should probably be mentioned a little bit more. 

Although in Ray Allen's case, I think the fact that he eats a bland diet, has never had alcohol or drugs and keeps himself in amazing shape probably account for something.

[NoraG1]

Bigs age alot quicker then shooters

I would argue the opposite.  I think it would be easier to play effectively if you are huge than if your game relies on quickness.  I think that's why there are usually tons of old power forwards and centers like Kurt Thomas hanging around and relatively few guards.

The names on the list that is shown in the article points the other way though.

[GranTur]

Those players are making up for their physical differences with experience, BBIQ, and preparation.

You can't compare Pierce physically to even 3 years ago. It's a clear difference.

Same for all the guys on that list.

[the_Bird]

Those players are making up for their physical differences with experience, BBIQ, and preparation.

You can't compare Pierce physically to even 3 years ago. It's a clear difference.

Same for all the guys on that list.

Haven't read the article yet, but that was the first thought that came to mind.  Pierce plays a lot differently than he did three or four years ago - saving his body, not fighting for every rebound (used to be one of the best-boarding wings in the league), being more selective when he drives the lane.  KG has long transitioned to more and more of a perimeter game (and Dirk's always played outside), which helps their games age well.  Ray Allen isn't doing anything Reggie Miller didn't do (and it's hard to imagine Reggie Miller on PEDs).

Duncan's a bad example, he's transitioning into David Robinson mode before our eyes.  Shaq shows his wear and tear most nights, although he's just so strong that he'll still occasionally look dominant. 

So, are players using PEDs?  Of course, I ain't naive.  Are a lot of these players adjusting their games to their physical realities?  Yup.

[bdm860]

Bigs age alot quicker then shooters

I would argue the opposite.  I think it would be easier to play effectively if you are huge than if your game relies on quickness.  I think that's why there are usually tons of old power forwards and centers like Kurt Thomas hanging around and relatively few guards.

The names on the list that is shown in the article points the other way though.

Just look at a list of most games played:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/g_career.html

C
C
PG
PF
C
PF/C
SG
F/C
PG
C
PF
PF
C
PG
C
PF/C
PF
PF
G
G/F
PF/C

Looks like that list is dominated by a lot of bigs.

Oldest active NBA players:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_active_NBA_players

Again dominated by bigs.

[Greenbean]

I think that PEDs didnt come up in that article because he is highlighting guys maintaining production. In baseball, guys got BETTER in their late 30's. I honestly think that the advancement of training, diet, and overall knowledge of doctors pertaining to an athlete's body  can be attributed to longevity.

I mean it wasnt too long ago that tearing an ACL would end your career. Now it is just a speed bump for guys like Perkins and Tony Allen.

[GroverTheClover]

The players Simmons cited in the article aren't overly dependent on athleticism to be effective as they are on actual shooting ability (Ray/Dirk/Nash) and/or footwork (Kobe/Pierce). The only thing that would significantly hamper their effectiveness is an injury.

[fairweatherfan]

Bigs age alot quicker then shooters

I would argue the opposite.  I think it would be easier to play effectively if you are huge than if your game relies on quickness.  I think that's why there are usually tons of old power forwards and centers like Kurt Thomas hanging around and relatively few guards.

The names on the list that is shown in the article points the other way though.

Just look at a list of most games played:

Oldest active NBA players:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_active_NBA_players

Again dominated by bigs.

I think it goes either way - the bigs whose bodies hold up well can stick around forever because their size never goes away and there just aren't many talented bigs coming into the league..  The bigs whose bodies fall apart crash and burn fairly early in their careers. 

What Simmons is highlighting is that a lot of guys at the 1-4 are finding ways to maintain their bodies and their production longer.

Overall I love the new trend, it's the best way of adding depth to the league. 

[Edgar]

  He's basing everything on seasons played, not on age.

right on point
kobe was a kid when drafted compared to ray for example
so maybe Ray is the one star defying aging curve