Worst Game I ever saw Baby Play

[housecall]

I think this team lack a few good consistent rebounders at this time.When Rondo leads your team in a game in rebounding it really tells you that somewhere there is a problem...i think its not being motivated by some players night after night.Maybe Danny should've looked for a younger athletic big before he signed Nate.Besides Nate getting hot once in awhile scoring wise,whatelse does he really bring to the table?A younger athletic big could give you some decent board work each night off the bench,like a T.Thomas-type.IMO

I look at what B.Walker has started to contribute in NY now and still don't understand why the rush in trading him away.

[j804]

Is major problem on nights like this is pretty simple. Glen Davis will pick and pop, Rondo won't think he has a good look, but Baby stands there staring at him for the ball, then the offense stalls, and either Glen or Rondo take a tough buzzer beating shot.

The worst part about this is that Ray and Paul are just standing there watching this.

Ding ding ding -- you can't fault Baby Ray and Paul are USUALLY hanging out at the 3 point line WATCHING when this happens

[indeedproceed]

I didn't check the stats?!? His average for rebounding total is 5.40, which is second on the team, and his total number is 194, which is also second. You may disagree about Big Baby's worth, but please do not insinuate that I haven't checked the stats like "Clover and Roy did" ... I absolutely did, and I don't throw them out in conversation or discourse without checking them, (which is something you might want to do before assuming I didn't).

Clover and Roy are talking about "Per Minute" stats, which unfortunately, is a very poor stat to go on. If a player played a minute or two for the whole season and got a couple of rebounds during that time, he'd have the highest rebounding/minute stat in the NBA! But would that make him the best? Of course not!

Sorry, but his "RB Per Minute" stats mean very little when compared to guys who are playing many less minutes than he is.

Actually I think virtually every stat backs up Glen Davis as a poor rebounder at the 4.

However, the most important stat in rebounding is Rebound Rate. Rebound Rate is not the rebounds per minute, but it is the % of available rebounds the player grabs while on the floor. For instance, if I play 5 mins in a game, and in those 5 mins there are a combined 10 misses between my team and the other team, and I grab 2 of those rebounds, my rebound rate is 20.0.

Among power forwards he rates 58th. And that's not even all power forwards, that's just players on pace to play more than 500 minutes this year. Glen Davis's rebound rate is 11.0, which puts him right there with Yi Jianlian, Nocioni, and Al Harrington. He gets roughly 11% of all available rebounds while he is on the floor.

Every single player in our front court has a better rebound rate. That is, while they are on the floor, every single player in our front court gets a higher % of available rebounds than Glen Davis. Even Semih Erden is at 11.1% (however he would fall under your 'he doesn't play alot, if he played more his #'s would go down' scenario).

As a starter, Glen Davis is among some of the worst rebounding front court players in the league.

To those who think Glen Davis is a good bench energy player that can change the dynamic of a game with his scoring and his hustle plays, you're right.

To those who think he is a sub-par starter with clear limitations due to his tiny t-rex arms and short height relative to other starting frontcourt players, you're also right.

Glen Davis a puzzle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a pretzel, then deep fried and stuffed in a turkey. He's a Glenducken of a basketball player.

[thirstyboots18]

Is major problem on nights like this is pretty simple. Glen Davis will pick and pop, Rondo won't think he has a good look, but Baby stands there staring at him for the ball, then the offense stalls, and either Glen or Rondo take a tough buzzer beating shot.

The worst part about this is that Ray and Paul are just standing there watching this.

Ding ding ding -- you can't fault Baby Ray and Paul are USUALLY hanging out at the 3 point line WATCHING when this happens

Ray and Paul are supposed to hang around the outside, Ray is a shooter, and Paul can driven or shoot.   Davis is filling in for KG...the Power Forward who's usual job is to play inside, and protect the rim.  Except for Sheed (who everyone complained about) Power Forwards do not hang around outside.

[KungPoweChicken]

Power forwards are supposed to play inside? Antoine takes exception to that!

[celtics2]

Celts just never looked interested in this game. Rose ate everyone's lunch. Rondo gave him his desert.

[FLCeltsFan]

When KG and Perk are back we will do better on the boards.  Even when Perk doesn't get a rebound, he does a good job of boxing out to prevent the other team's bigs from grabbing them, allowing KG or other Celtics to grab them.  With Perk in there, we will see our rebounding totals rise.   

[Bankshot]

Is major problem on nights like this is pretty simple. Glen Davis will pick and pop, Rondo won't think he has a good look, but Baby stands there staring at him for the ball, then the offense stalls, and either Glen or Rondo take a tough buzzer beating shot.

The worst part about this is that Ray and Paul are just standing there watching this.

Ding ding ding -- you can't fault Baby Ray and Paul are USUALLY hanging out at the 3 point line WATCHING when this happens

Ray and Paul are supposed to hang around the outside, Ray is a shooter, and Paul can driven or shoot.   Davis is filling in for KG...the Power Forward who's usual job is to play inside, and protect the rim.  Except for Sheed (who everyone complained about) Power Forwards do not hang around outside.

But KG doesn't even do that that much.  He shoots jumpers too.

[Tgro]

BBD obviously had a terrible game last night and his overshooting was easy to cringe at every time he put one up. Just like nearly everybody, I'd prefer to see him come off the bench and be the role player we all know he can be. It's easy to kick him when he's down and he was obviously down last night. However, it would be easier to place more blame on BBD had the rest of the team looked good and it was BBD just stinking up the joint. Other than the 1st 6 minutes of the game, the movement last night was horrendous. I'm not used to seeing the Celtics just kind of stand around. They looked like they were going to lose that game from the end of the 1st quarter on. I never felt like we were going to win that game at any stretch after the 1st quarter. BBD had the ugliest of ugly games last night, but to be fair, for me personally, that was the worst I seen the Celtics play this year. In reality, it was a very poor team effort. They need a refocus. The entire team can look in the mirror after last night's game including BBD.

[Roy H.]

bahku is sadly mistaken if he thinks that BBD is our second best rebounder. even without checking the stats (that guys like Clover and Roy did), i can see by watching that he's not been rebounding well.

mmbaby, understand that we're not saying that BBD sucks. i think the common notion around here, or at least in this thread, is that BBD has not been a very good starter and has made some pretty bad decisions. Lots of players make bad decisions, but BBD's bad decisions stick out a lot more, at least for me, because well... they're really bad! poor shot selection is annoying, especially when "scoring" isn't even BBD's main calling card, and BBD has been taking a lot of shots.

Again, i haven't had the time to check the stats but thankfully Roy has, and with a line of 40.7% (!) on 14.3 (!!) attempts while only averaging 3.8 (!!!) rebounds in 35.5 minutes as a big man starter... well, that's pretty bad if you ask me. Celtics have played 36 games so far, and so a 10-game trend is pretty sizeable.

i'm looking forward to him going back to the bench.

I didn't check the stats?!? His average for rebounding total is 5.40, which is second on the team, and his total number is 194, which is also second. You may disagree about Big Baby's worth, but please do not insinuate that I haven't checked the stats like "Clover and Roy did" ... I absolutely did, and I don't throw them out in conversation or discourse without checking them, (which is something you might want to do before assuming I didn't).

Clover and Roy are talking about "Per Minute" stats, which unfortunately, is a very poor stat to go on. If a player played a minute or two for the whole season and got a couple of rebounds during that time, he'd have the highest rebounding/minute stat in the NBA! But would that make him the best? Of course not!

Sorry, but his "RB Per Minute" stats mean very little when compared to guys who are playing many less minutes than he is. Listen, I'm not saying I like him as a starter, I'm saying he's done well, (overall, not the recent three or four games), in a role that is hard to fill, and he's getting way too much blame for the C's losses.

You think it's irrelevant to look at how many rebounds somebody gets per minute, or at the total percentage of available rebounds a player grabs?  BBD ranks last on the team in both.  That's not a coincidence.

Why are raw numbers more legit?  When somebody has more minutes, of course they should have higher raw statistics.  However, to see how many / what percentage of boards a guy is grabbing while he's on the court is the most important measure of a player's rebounding capability.

[GranTur]

In 13 more minutes over last season, Glen Davis is grabbing only 1.5 more rebounds.

He's needs to become more of a paint monster. He isos too far from the basket.

He also should never take a jump shot farther than 18 feet out. EVER.

[anthony83]

Big Baby needs to play more in the paint, he was not fine, he was intimidated by Boozer. So KG is KG, Boozer has nothing to do against KG.
I did not like the behavior of Boozer, he took two pokes at Big Baby, Boozer is a dirty player, I do not like his game.
Big Baby was not comfortable, he has to learn, he has to earn respect.

[Casperian]

Baby played terrible, you can´t argue with that, and the mods are certainly not "hating" on Baby. But I´m convinced that a lot of the criticism of the last days has to do with personal dislike. To use old stories about BBD to underline his "immaturity" is a pretty good sign for that, in my opinion.

- Does anyone remember how immature Pierce was just a few years ago? There was a game in Doc´s first year where he even benched Paul because he didn´t play the way he should. Nobody calls Pierce immature when he calls an iso at the end of a quarter to play some hero ball, we all begrudgingly accept it.
- There are a lot of stories about Rondo´s stubborness, but when he makes the same mistake over and over again in a game, nobody´s calling him out.
- Delonte West and Von Wafer go at it in training and everybody and their mother is making fun of the "eye-brow raisers".
- Bring back Toine and Gerald Green threads. Do I have to explain that one?

So, Baby didn´t have a lot of rebounds in the last games. When I hear this argument, I really have to wonder if these people are even watching the games? Is it so hard to understand that everybody on this team has a role to play and everyone´s just a gear in the big machine? How is Shaq rebounding this year? You know, the HOFer whose job is to protect the basket and grab the boards, the same Shaq half of this board wants to start even when Perk comes back and who is about 5 inches taller than BBD?

This wouldn´t be so ridiculous if Baby had a history of not stepping up, or if he had played bad for the whole season, but he was playing terrific ball just two weeks ago, and even during this little slump, had a great game against the Spurs and the Raptors. What does being a starter have to do with his recent play? He was playing 30+ minutes and closing out games even when both O´Neals were healthy at the start of the season.

As I said in the first sentence, he played bad. He´s going away from what made him strong: keeping it simple, doing the necessary little things to help the team win. However, to assume this would have anything to do with some kind of imminent immaturity on Davis´ part is just moronic. In fact, it´s so stupid, I can´t even assume these people simply lack in deductive sills. He played great ball, had nice statlines and was praised around the league as a candidate for 6th man of the year, why would he go away from that just to have a few more shots? You´d have to be a (pretty bad) armchair GM to think in these categories. Does anyone really think Davis could get away with that on a team with KG, Pierce, Ray and Shaq?

Maybe he´s feeling the pressure, maybe someone told him that real shooters are not afraid to shoot it even more after they miss a shot, or maybe everyone is simply guarded and they leave Baby open, and our four all-stars fail to create some offense that doesn´t end up in the hands of our fifth option.
Whatever it is, as far as I´m concerned, Davis has earned the right to play through a slump, just like everyone else on this team.

[Celticsman]

we just need KG back

Q.

[EJPLAYA]

Baby played terrible, you can´t argue with that, and the mods are certainly not "hating" on Baby. But I´m convinced that a lot of the criticism of the last days has to do with personal dislike. To use old stories about BBD to underline his "immaturity" is a pretty good sign for that, in my opinion.

- Does anyone remember how immature Pierce was just a few years ago? There was a game in Doc´s first year where he even benched Paul because he didn´t play the way he should. Nobody calls Pierce immature when he calls an iso at the end of a quarter to play some hero ball, we all begrudgingly accept it.
- There are a lot of stories about Rondo´s stubborness, but when he makes the same mistake over and over again in a game, nobody´s calling him out.
- Delonte West and Von Wafer go at it in training and everybody and their mother is making fun of the "eye-brow raisers".
- Bring back Toine and Gerald Green threads. Do I have to explain that one?

So, Baby didn´t have a lot of rebounds in the last games. When I hear this argument, I really have to wonder if these people are even watching the games? Is it so hard to understand that everybody on this team has a role to play and everyone´s just a gear in the big machine? How is Shaq rebounding this year? You know, the HOFer whose job is to protect the basket and grab the boards, the same Shaq half of this board wants to start even when Perk comes back and who is about 5 inches taller than BBD?

This wouldn´t be so ridiculous if Baby had a history of not stepping up, or if he had played bad for the whole season, but he was playing terrific ball just two weeks ago, and even during this little slump, had a great game against the Spurs and the Raptors. What does being a starter have to do with his recent play? He was playing 30+ minutes and closing out games even when both O´Neals were healthy at the start of the season.

As I said in the first sentence, he played bad. He´s going away from what made him strong: keeping it simple, doing the necessary little things to help the team win. However, to assume this would have anything to do with some kind of imminent immaturity on Davis´ part is just moronic. In fact, it´s so stupid, I can´t even assume these people simply lack in deductive sills. He played great ball, had nice statlines and was praised around the league as a candidate for 6th man of the year, why would he go away from that just to have a few more shots? You´d have to be a (pretty bad) armchair GM to think in these categories. Does anyone really think Davis could get away with that on a team with KG, Pierce, Ray and Shaq?

Maybe he´s feeling the pressure, maybe someone told him that real shooters are not afraid to shoot it even more after they miss a shot, or maybe everyone is simply guarded and they leave Baby open, and our four all-stars fail to create some offense that doesn´t end up in the hands of our fifth option.
Whatever it is, as far as I´m concerned, Davis has earned the right to play through a slump, just like everyone else on this team.

Agree with the majority of this. The couple differences though are that people are a little more patient with a Hall of Fame level player when it comes to their immaturity than with a bench role player. Also, BBD has been taking "different" shots from farther out on the floor lately which is not what he had been doing before. He is shooting out of his range now which isn't the same as a slump. If he doesn't step in 2-3 feet then he will continue his slump. He also is regressing back to his former rebounding status at the same time so other than taking a charge here and there isn't the same defensive player he was.

I agree wholeheartedly that BBD shouldn't be judged on one game, or even 2-3. I don't really like BBD although am glad for his improvement the last half of last year and most of this year. I think he is too stubborn to realize he isn't as good as he thinks he is and needs to get back to doing what he did that was working. As Doc said, he should NEVER be leading our team in # of shots taken. Dish the ball big fella!