Worst Game I ever saw Baby Play

[GranTur]

The problem for the Celtics was only two players showed up: Pierce and Allen.

Davis' problem is when his shot isn't falling, he fails to make any other impact on the game whatsoever. That is the most annoying kind of player.

Perfectly said. TP

[kenmaine]

This game showed why Baby is not (or not yet) ready to be a starter on a championship team. He got burned by Boozer on both ends of the court. His jumper is just too inconsistent and giving him more minutes is just exposing this. Baby is perfect as an energy guy, a sixth man where he can bully the 2nd string power forwards in the league. Hopefully KG gets back sooner than later so Baby can go back doing the role that's he's best at - the first big off the Celtics' bench.

Exactly.
And the C's arent't doing too badly considering that the top two big men and backup point guard aren't playng.

[Roy H.]

Baby has had 5 rebounds in his last 95 minutes of playing time.

And he's second overall for the year, both in percentage and totals, (behind only KG). Everyone has slumps or times when they're "off', but you don't use those slumps to muddy the big picture.

clover already mentioned it, but you're mistaken.  In terms of "per minute" and "rebounding percentage", BBD is the worst big on our team in terms of rebounding.  He's behind KG, Harangody, Shaq, JO, and is tied with Semih, and when Perk gets healthy, he'll be behind him, too (based upon recent and career averages).

In terms of rationalization, tell me which example is rationalizing:  1) somebody pointing out stats over a ten game period -- 1/8th of the season -- which suggest a pattern of sub-par play (relative to NBA peers) and suggesting that a player is struggling and would be better off returning to his bench role; or 2) somebody ignoring those stats (and counteracting them with raw stats, without reference to minutes played), chalking them up to a slump, and arguing that BBD isn't the worst player in those categories.  I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but example #2 seems a lot closer to rationalization than the first one.

Some more stats:  BBD is shooting 40.7% as a starter, averaging 3.8 rebounds in 35.5 minutes.  He's averaging 14.3 shot attempts per game as a starter, which would lead all players by a wide margin (Pierce averages 13.1 attempts per game).  On the other hand, BBD was shooting 47.7% off the bench, with 5.7 rebounds in 29.7 minutes.  Clearly, he hasn't adjusted to his new role very well.  He's a valuable bench player, but as a starter thus far, he has stunk.

I understand that BBD is a fan favorite, but overall, he just hasn't played that well in the past 10 games or so.  He's been a net positive this year, and has been a consistent contributor, but he's been playing poorly lately, with a couple of exceptions.  BBD has shown himself to be not ready for primetime, and I'll be glad when he's our 6th man, rather than our #1 volume shooter.

[mmbaby]

Just as Bahku said, certain people here grab any opportunity they can to put down BBD. They like to bring up immature decisions (sometimes from years ago)over and over again and harp on his mistakes, all of which have been minor.
I can't imagine BBD EVER being arrested on gun charges for instance. He has worked on every single thing he's had a problem with and succeeded in correcting it, in spite of being not tall enough for some matchups.

I don't mind bringing up Baby's problems or things he has to work on, such as getting schooled by Boozer and what a bad matchup that was. Doc is at fault for keeping Baby in the game on Boozer for almost the full game and I could swear that the team was funnelling Baby the ball constantly. It was obvious he knew he was having a bad night and didn't want to have to shoot. Like that time he kept throwing it back to Ray and Ray just kept sending it back to him to shoot.

I've noticed especially the mods haven't seemed to like him from day one, no matter what he does. It's sad and especially considering how much Baby has meant to the success of this team. It's like they can't allowo Baby to have a bad night or a few, though all the players have them.

Stop hitting him when he's down and start recognizing and acknowledging when he's up, which is what he usually is.

[Roy H.]

I've noticed especially the mods haven't seemed to like him from day one, no matter what he does. It's sad and especially considering how much Baby has meant to the success of this team. It's like they can't allowo Baby to have a bad night or a few, though all the players have them.

Speaking for myself, here's what I said:

He's been a net positive this year, and has been a consistent contributor, but he's been playing poorly lately, with a couple of exceptions.

Do you disagree?  If so, based upon what?  Do you agree that his rebounding has been very poor lately?  That his shooting percentage has been unacceptable?  That BBD shouldn't be leading the team in FGA as a starter? 

BBD is a good (if overrated) bench player.  He's played much more consistently this year than in the past, and that has helped the team.  However, lately he just hasn't been very good on average.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to praise him for the 2 or 3 good games he has, but to ignore the 7 or 8 bad ones. 

[mmbaby]

NO!
All the positive things BBD has done this season have been pointed out to you already.

[thirstyboots18]

Sorry, but I just don't get some of this rationalization ... this is a bench player who is fourth in scoring, (behind only the Big Three), second in rebounding, and way ahead of anyone in the NBA at taking charges, but because his shooting percentage has been off in a couple of games, he's "hurting" the team?!?

I could find similarly bad games for every member of this team, and use that as rationalization for blame and dislike, (if I felt so motivated). I think this comes down to the fact that some people have decided they just plain don't like him, (for whatever reasons), and use bad games to validate that dislike.

Well, people are certainly entitled to that dislike, but this kid has easily been the best bench player this year overall, and has done much more to help this team than hurt it. Yes, he still makes immature decisions and mistakes at times, but he doesn't lead the list in that category either.

I agree with some of what you say, and I had turned from being down on Big Baby to being a grateful (if somewhat amazed) supporter, but...while Davis has turned into a very effective bench player (and possible sixth man) I do feel he has failed as a starter.  We need him to take the lead off the bench.  Having PP, RR and RA on the floor "should" preclude him from taking the lead (and the majority of the shots) when he is a starter.  What he is needed for as a starter is  Defense and Rebounds.  

I am afraid, because of his starting performance, he will play himself out of contention as sixth man.  

And mmmbaby, I resent your assertions that the Mods have something against Davis.  We all have our prejudices and our reasons, and yours are showing, too.

[mmbaby]

Sorry, but I just don't get some of this rationalization ... this is a bench player who is fourth in scoring, (behind only the Big Three), second in rebounding, and way ahead of anyone in the NBA at taking charges, but because his shooting percentage has been off in a couple of games, he's "hurting" the team?!?

I could find similarly bad games for every member of this team, and use that as rationalization for blame and dislike, (if I felt so motivated). I think this comes down to the fact that some people have decided they just plain don't like him, (for whatever reasons), and use bad games to validate that dislike.

Well, people are certainly entitled to that dislike, but this kid has easily been the best bench player this year overall, and has done much more to help this team than hurt it. Yes, he still makes immature decisions and mistakes at times, but he doesn't lead the list in that category either.

Roy, read here what Bahku wrote. He's better at this than I am. But I couldn't agree more with him. BBD has been awesome this season.

[mmbaby]

Thirsty Boots I'm sorry you resent my assertion, but it has been true.

And I totally disagree with you that he has 'failed' as a starter. Throwing out a statement like that so flippantly is just what I'm talking about.

He has in no way 'failed'. You have a right to your opinion, but I do also and that's my opinion.

[Roy H.]

Sorry, but I just don't get some of this rationalization ... this is a bench player who is fourth in scoring, (behind only the Big Three), second in rebounding, and way ahead of anyone in the NBA at taking charges, but because his shooting percentage has been off in a couple of games, he's "hurting" the team?!?

I could find similarly bad games for every member of this team, and use that as rationalization for blame and dislike, (if I felt so motivated). I think this comes down to the fact that some people have decided they just plain don't like him, (for whatever reasons), and use bad games to validate that dislike.

Well, people are certainly entitled to that dislike, but this kid has easily been the best bench player this year overall, and has done much more to help this team than hurt it. Yes, he still makes immature decisions and mistakes at times, but he doesn't lead the list in that category either.

Roy, read here what Bahku wrote. He's better at this than I am. But I couldn't agree more with him. BBD has been awesome this season.

As I said, as a bench player, he's been very good.  As a starter, overall he has stunk.  Some are more willing to overlook flaws than others, due to various biases one way or the other.  However, I'm surprised that there isn't more common ground that BBD currently needs to improve his level of play, and that it will be a good thing when he's back in his bench role.

[Who]

As a starter, Glen Davis has been a major liability on the backboards + a liability defensively + a marginal offensive player ... just like he was two years ago.

Glen Davis has shown himself incapable of stepping up to a starter's position. Again.

[thirstyboots18]

Thirsty Boots I'm sorry you resent my assertion, but it has been true.

And I totally disagree with you that he has 'failed' as a starter. Throwing out a statement like that so flippantly is just what I'm talking about.

He has in no way 'failed'. You have a right to your opinion, but I do also and that's my opinion.

I do not believe I was being "flippant"!  Maybe I should have qualified what I meant by "failed" as a starter.  Davis is trying to be something he is not...a sharpshooter and a scorer. He has a good inside jumper, and this year has succeeded more in his inside shooting, but he is taking way too many shots that PP and RA could be shooting.  He is not PP or RA and he is not playing against other bench players now, he is playing against the opponents best players.  If PP and RA are off on their shot (and if Davis is ON), Rondo, or they, will see that he gets the ball.  It seems to me that now ball movement stops when the ball gets to Glen, even if he is outside his range. 

I am not blaming the loss on Davis.  They all played badly, and losses and bad games happen.

[pearljammer10]

Sorry, but I just don't get some of this rationalization ... this is a bench player who is fourth in scoring, (behind only the Big Three), second in rebounding, and way ahead of anyone in the NBA at taking charges, but because his shooting percentage has been off in a couple of games, he's "hurting" the team?!?

I could find similarly bad games for every member of this team, and use that as rationalization for blame and dislike, (if I felt so motivated). I think this comes down to the fact that some people have decided they just plain don't like him, (for whatever reasons), and use bad games to validate that dislike.

Well, people are certainly entitled to that dislike, but this kid has easily been the best bench player this year overall, and has done much more to help this team than hurt it. Yes, he still makes immature decisions and mistakes at times, but he doesn't lead the list in that category either.

And thats where he should stay. He has been awful filling in as a starter and I think JO should have been moved to the starting spot to let Baby continue to play off the bench. 5 rebounds in his last 95 minutes? Thats terrible. 1 assist a game in 9 games. Thats terrible. He trying to prove to teams around the league that he can be the main focus of a starting team. So far he has greatly hurt his chances at proving that because he is definitely not capable of being a starter. He has a role and he needs to stick to it.

[mmbaby]

I don't want to argue about it anymore because there really is no point. Judging Baby as a 'failed' starter after 2 or 3 games is just silly. Which goes to my whole point. So I'm outta here, at least for now.

[LilRip]

bahku is sadly mistaken if he thinks that BBD is our second best rebounder. even without checking the stats (that guys like Clover and Roy did), i can see by watching that he's not been rebounding well.

mmbaby, understand that we're not saying that BBD sucks. i think the common notion around here, or at least in this thread, is that BBD has not been a very good starter and has made some pretty bad decisions. Lots of players make bad decisions, but BBD's bad decisions stick out a lot more, at least for me, because well... they're really bad! poor shot selection is annoying, especially when "scoring" isn't even BBD's main calling card, and BBD has been taking a lot of shots.

Again, i haven't had the time to check the stats but thankfully Roy has, and with a line of 40.7% (!) on 14.3 (!!) attempts while only averaging 3.8 (!!!) rebounds in 35.5 minutes as a big man starter... well, that's pretty bad if you ask me. Celtics have played 36 games so far, and so a 10-game trend is pretty sizeable.

i'm looking forward to him going back to the bench.