If players want to criticize refs and the league but avoid fines this is how

[Eja117]

Of course the other thing the league could do to reduce complaining is to stop cheating and give us competent refs. That would be nice too

That wouldn't reduce complaining.

I think it would help a little, although I see what Fafnir is saying.

I said a while ago I think they ought to just let the refs talk to the media after the game too, but they are invested in a holier than thou campaign against their players

[Chris]

Good point Chris, but there is a difference between players complaining and stating what we can all see or statistics.

For example if today a coach made the same point the Sacramento coaches were making back in their playoffs against the Lakers and were like "last game Shaq had 8 fouls called against him and tonight they had 25 called"  you'd get fined about $150,000. 

 Or when Allen Iverson was saying refs were targeting him....and they really were.

Its still complaining.  They are paid to play, so shut up and do it.  Leave the analysis to those whose job it is to do that. 

Weeellll coaches don't get paid to play.

I don't think just because they are players paid to play that means they have to leave their minds and sense of fairness at the door.  It's not the WWE.  It's not supposed to be a set up.

Coaches get paid to coach, not to complain to the media.

First off, these guys are incredibly biased to be making statements about the refs, just like fans of the team are.  They are looking at it through green colored glasses, and conveniently fail to mention it when they benefit from bad calls.  

And I am not saying anyone needs to leave their minds at the door.  They just need to keep their mouths shut, and deal with things privately.  I have no problem with them following up with the league after the game, and submitting evidence of why they felt things were not called correctly.  But when they go to the media and cry about it, to me, it just comes across as whiny.  I want them to suck it up, and play better, so the bad calls will be irrelevant.  

And there is no set up here.  It is just bad refereeing.  Every team has to deal with it.  It's a problem, but there is no conspiracy, just people doing their job poorly.  

[Eja117]

So I guess that's where we differ a little.  I definitely believe the stuff Tim Donaghy says and if it was just people doing their job poorly I don't think they'd keep getting called back to ref the biggest games

[bdm860]

And I am not saying anyone needs to leave their minds at the door.  They just need to keep their mouths shut, and deal with things privately.  I have no problem with them following up with the league after the game, and submitting evidence of why they felt things were not called correctly.  But when they go to the media and cry about it, to me, it just comes across as whiny.  I want them to suck it up, and play better, so the bad calls will be irrelevant. 

When I was reading (and agreeing) with this, I was thinking to myself ya if the players really have a problem with it then go through the proper channels.  If only there was a union or something that represented the players that met sometime soon...

Really though, hearing players complain so much, I wonder if reffing is an issue brought up during the player's union negotiations.  If all the players hate reffing so much, put your money where your mouth is and force some changes.  I also wonder if other issues like fines and technicals are brought up during the labor talks.

Lol then I wonder what happens during the refs labor negotiations.  If they demand more fines and technicals for players lol.

(Not that I took the original post that seriously, I saw it as a joke).

[Chris]

And I am not saying anyone needs to leave their minds at the door.  They just need to keep their mouths shut, and deal with things privately.  I have no problem with them following up with the league after the game, and submitting evidence of why they felt things were not called correctly.  But when they go to the media and cry about it, to me, it just comes across as whiny.  I want them to suck it up, and play better, so the bad calls will be irrelevant. 

When I was reading (and agreeing) with this, I was thinking to myself ya if the players really have a problem with it then go through the proper channels.  If only there was a union or something that represented the players that met sometime soon...

Really though, hearing players complain so much, I wonder if reffing is an issue brought up during the player's union negotiations.  If all the players hate reffing so much, put your money where your mouth is and force some changes.  I also wonder if other issues like fines and technicals are brought up during the labor talks.

Lol then I wonder what happens during the refs labor negotiations.  If they demand more fines and technicals for players lol.

(Not that I took the original post that seriously, I saw it as a joke).

I actually think that is going to be an interesting part of the CBA negotiations.  I have a feeling the players association is going to fight for more control over fines.  I think they have a big problem with the new technical rules, because they basically give the refs more power to take money out of their pockets.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the league purposely put that new rule in this season, to give them something they don't mind giving back to the players in the negotiation. 

[Redz]

Maybe they make so much money that a $35K fine is less a deterrent, and more a badge of pride, or a measure of indifference.  If a consequence of a negative action has no relevance to the punished then it is not an effective form of penalty.