Would you trade JO for JJ Redick?

[Jon]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart. 

[Chris]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart. 

Absolutely.  But we also need to remember that it is, in fact, a luxury.  I think some people have gotten too infatuated with the "need" for so much depth up front, and have ignored the fact that if we don't have depth elsewhere, we will be in just as much trouble.

Obviously, a lot is going to have to do with Perk's ability to return, but I think come playoff time, a lot of the bumps and bruises that have been keeping guys like Shaq out, will no longer be issues.  They are being extra careful early in the season with these guys, and holding Shaq and JO out for injuries that would not keep them out come playoff time.  That has created a bit of a mirage that we are thinner up front than we are. 

Now, right now, we are also in decent shape on the wing, assuming West comes back, but we are one injury away from having Von Wafer as a primary backup.  So, I think there needs to at least some thought put in to trading a luxury (5th rotation quality big man) for someone who may be more likely to play a role in the playoffs, such as a rotation quality wing...should the right deal present itself.

[hpantazo]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart.  

Absolutely.  But we also need to remember that it is, in fact, a luxury.  I think some people have gotten too infatuated with the "need" for so much depth up front, and have ignored the fact that if we don't have depth elsewhere, we will be in just as much trouble.

Obviously, a lot is going to have to do with Perk's ability to return, but I think come playoff time, a lot of the bumps and bruises that have been keeping guys like Shaq out, will no longer be issues.  They are being extra careful early in the season with these guys, and holding Shaq and JO out for injuries that would not keep them out come playoff time.  That has created a bit of a mirage that we are thinner up front than we are.  

Now, right now, we are also in decent shape on the wing, assuming West comes back, but we are one injury away from having Von Wafer as a primary backup.  So, I think there needs to at least some thought put in to trading a luxury (5th rotation quality big man) for someone who may be more likely to play a role in the playoffs, such as a rotation quality wing...should the right deal present itself.

This is not a luxury, it's a necessity. The single biggest reason we lost in the finals was lack of depth at center. The lakers killed us inside and on the boards. As a gm, you have to assume Perk is not going to contribute this year. Look at how bad KG looked last year. Semih is a rookie picked at the end of the 2nd round, you can't count on him either. That leaves Shaq, who is very old and injury prone, and JO, who is a bit younger but more injury prone than Shaq. We don't have the "luxury" to get rid of any of these guys, chances are at least 2 of them will poop out before we reach the finals.  This team was modified over the summer specifically to address the weaknesses that showed during the finals, we are built to beat LA, and we have to keep it that way.

[Chris]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart.  

Absolutely.  But we also need to remember that it is, in fact, a luxury.  I think some people have gotten too infatuated with the "need" for so much depth up front, and have ignored the fact that if we don't have depth elsewhere, we will be in just as much trouble.

Obviously, a lot is going to have to do with Perk's ability to return, but I think come playoff time, a lot of the bumps and bruises that have been keeping guys like Shaq out, will no longer be issues.  They are being extra careful early in the season with these guys, and holding Shaq and JO out for injuries that would not keep them out come playoff time.  That has created a bit of a mirage that we are thinner up front than we are.  

Now, right now, we are also in decent shape on the wing, assuming West comes back, but we are one injury away from having Von Wafer as a primary backup.  So, I think there needs to at least some thought put in to trading a luxury (5th rotation quality big man) for someone who may be more likely to play a role in the playoffs, such as a rotation quality wing...should the right deal present itself.

This is not a luxury, it's a necessity. The single biggest reason we lost in the finals was lack of depth at center. The lakers killed us inside and on the boards. As a gm, you have to assume Perk is not going to contribute this year. Look at how bad KG looked last year. Semih is a rookie picked at the end of the 2nd round, you can't count on him either. That leaves Shaq, who is very old and injury prone, and JO, who is a bit younger but more injury prone than Shaq. We don't have the "luxury" to get rid of any of these guys, chances are at least 2 of them will poop out before we reach the finals.  This team was modified over the summer specifically to address the weaknesses that showed during the finals, we are built to beat LA, and we have to keep it that way.

Right, last year we went from having 2 centers to 1 center, and it hurt us in the final game.  If Perk returns, we have 4 centers (and that isn't even mentioning the potential of Sheed returning).  There is a little difference in the level of depth there. 

[hpantazo]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart.  

Absolutely.  But we also need to remember that it is, in fact, a luxury.  I think some people have gotten too infatuated with the "need" for so much depth up front, and have ignored the fact that if we don't have depth elsewhere, we will be in just as much trouble.

Obviously, a lot is going to have to do with Perk's ability to return, but I think come playoff time, a lot of the bumps and bruises that have been keeping guys like Shaq out, will no longer be issues.  They are being extra careful early in the season with these guys, and holding Shaq and JO out for injuries that would not keep them out come playoff time.  That has created a bit of a mirage that we are thinner up front than we are.  

Now, right now, we are also in decent shape on the wing, assuming West comes back, but we are one injury away from having Von Wafer as a primary backup.  So, I think there needs to at least some thought put in to trading a luxury (5th rotation quality big man) for someone who may be more likely to play a role in the playoffs, such as a rotation quality wing...should the right deal present itself.

This is not a luxury, it's a necessity. The single biggest reason we lost in the finals was lack of depth at center. The lakers killed us inside and on the boards. As a gm, you have to assume Perk is not going to contribute this year. Look at how bad KG looked last year. Semih is a rookie picked at the end of the 2nd round, you can't count on him either. That leaves Shaq, who is very old and injury prone, and JO, who is a bit younger but more injury prone than Shaq. We don't have the "luxury" to get rid of any of these guys, chances are at least 2 of them will poop out before we reach the finals.  This team was modified over the summer specifically to address the weaknesses that showed during the finals, we are built to beat LA, and we have to keep it that way.

Right, last year we went from having 2 centers to 1 center, and it hurt us in the final game.  If Perk returns, we have 4 centers (and that isn't even mentioning the potential of Sheed returning).  There is a little difference in the level of depth there.  

That's right, but as I said, Perk can't be expected to play like Perk this year, Semih is a rookie 2nd round pick, and the Oneal's are injury prone, so we need all of them and Sheed if we can get him, unless you want to roll the dice that in what may be the last season with our big 3, we can beat Dwight Howard's Magic and Gasol, Bynum, Odom's Lakers with 38 year old Shaq and Perkins playing like KG did last year. That's not even mentioning the fact that Perkins and Shaq  pick up fouls at an amazingly high rate. We would likely be stuck with glen davis at center against Howard or Bynum at the end of games, and we know how well that would turn out.

[Sizzlack]

And let's also not underestimate the luxury of having 5 legit big men.  JO supporters like him as insurance.  I like him knowing that if all goes right, we won't have to worry about big men and foul trouble come May and June.  Now guys like KG and Perk can give 100% on the defensive end knowing that if they get in early foul trouble, things won't fall apart.  

Absolutely.  But we also need to remember that it is, in fact, a luxury.  I think some people have gotten too infatuated with the "need" for so much depth up front, and have ignored the fact that if we don't have depth elsewhere, we will be in just as much trouble.

Obviously, a lot is going to have to do with Perk's ability to return, but I think come playoff time, a lot of the bumps and bruises that have been keeping guys like Shaq out, will no longer be issues.  They are being extra careful early in the season with these guys, and holding Shaq and JO out for injuries that would not keep them out come playoff time.  That has created a bit of a mirage that we are thinner up front than we are.  

Now, right now, we are also in decent shape on the wing, assuming West comes back, but we are one injury away from having Von Wafer as a primary backup.  So, I think there needs to at least some thought put in to trading a luxury (5th rotation quality big man) for someone who may be more likely to play a role in the playoffs, such as a rotation quality wing...should the right deal present itself.

This is not a luxury, it's a necessity. The single biggest reason we lost in the finals was lack of depth at center. The lakers killed us inside and on the boards. As a gm, you have to assume Perk is not going to contribute this year. Look at how bad KG looked last year. Semih is a rookie picked at the end of the 2nd round, you can't count on him either. That leaves Shaq, who is very old and injury prone, and JO, who is a bit younger but more injury prone than Shaq. We don't have the "luxury" to get rid of any of these guys, chances are at least 2 of them will poop out before we reach the finals.  This team was modified over the summer specifically to address the weaknesses that showed during the finals, we are built to beat LA, and we have to keep it that way.

Right, last year we went from having 2 centers to 1 center, and it hurt us in the final game.  If Perk returns, we have 4 centers (and that isn't even mentioning the potential of Sheed returning).  There is a little difference in the level of depth there.  

That's right, but as I said, Perk can't be expected to play like Perk this year, Semih is a rookie 2nd round pick, and the Oneal's are injury prone, so we need all of them and Sheed if we can get him, unless you want to roll the dice that in what may be the last season with our big 3, we can beat Dwight Howard's Magic and Gasol, Bynum, Odom's Lakers with 38 year old Shaq and Perkins playing like KG did last year. That's not even mentioning the fact that Perkins and Shaq  pick up fouls at an amazingly high rate. We would likely be stuck with glen davis at center against Howard or Bynum at the end of games, and we know how well that would turn out.

I was with you until you said "And Sheed if we can get him" So now I'm out. You lost me bro.

And Semih has been a lot better than expected, so his draft status really doesn't matter. He's also not your "typical rookie" since he played in Europe, the guys a professional, just not quite an NBA professional, yet. But he's not exactly a wet behind the ears 19 year old who will crack under the pressure.

[nba is the worst]

He has too much potential to help the Magic - Redick is good, but I'd say it wouldn't be worth it

[Jon]

I wouldn't rule out the idea of KG playing some 3 if West or Daniels went down in the playoffs. 

And before everyone starts jumping on me about how KG has "lost a step" or "can't keep up" with the likes of LeBron, etc., let's also ask this question: would KG be any worse at the 3 for 10 mpg than Daniels or anyone else the C's might land? 

Moreover, might he be better?  Sure, he might be a step slower than some, but he's also 5 inches (or more) taller than most other options, allowing him to stay a step or two further back.  He also possesses a better outside game than Daniels or Tony Allen ever had, and they seem(ed) to do quite fine backing up PP. 

So, I'm intrigued about the idea of getting a bigger 3.  But I think there's ways to use 5 big men effectively as well. 

[Celtics4ever]

Proof of the stone hands, this reporter saw it Roy, too.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/12/26/big_problems_with_this/

Jermaine O’Neal gets a pass because he hadn’t played in six weeks, although it appeared his hands, which flubbed a few crisp passes, were still on the inactive list.

[Who]

I wouldn't rule out the idea of KG playing some 3 if West or Daniels went down in the playoffs. 

And before everyone starts jumping on me about how KG has "lost a step" or "can't keep up" with the likes of LeBron, etc., let's also ask this question: would KG be any worse at the 3 for 10 mpg than Daniels or anyone else the C's might land? 

Moreover, might he be better?  Sure, he might be a step slower than some, but he's also 5 inches (or more) taller than most other options, allowing him to stay a step or two further back.  He also possesses a better outside game than Daniels or Tony Allen ever had, and they seem(ed) to do quite fine backing up PP. 

So, I'm intrigued about the idea of getting a bigger 3.  But I think there's ways to use 5 big men effectively as well. 

I would be open to that.

I would be worried about him matching up against LeBron but against the Lakers, Magic or Bulls? That would work fine. None of those teams have the options necessary to take advantage of KG and Garnett would certainly have an advantage in the post on the other end of the floor. It would be fine against Miami too so long as it's not LeBron or Wade that KG has to defend.

With the sheer amount of talent amongst the big men and the different combinations / options they can create ... the Celtics are more able to use KG at the three than they ever have been before. Shaq's size and offensive ability at center. A terrific shot-blocking combination with Jermaine and Perk. Or BBD's midrange game and mobility defensively. They could create lots of different looks.

That type of lineup could be hugely effective.

-----------------------------------------------------

Actually, that would be worth trying out even if the Celtics don't have any injuries to backup wings. Test it now and then in the regular season once (if?) everyone gets healthy.

Those lineup combinations could be considerably more effective than using Marquis in situations where the 3 man doesn't have to check a top scorer/athlete.

[Roy H.]

Proof of the stone hands, this reporter saw it Roy, too.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/12/26/big_problems_with_this/

Jermaine O’Neal gets a pass because he hadn’t played in six weeks, although it appeared his hands, which flubbed a few crisp passes, were still on the inactive list.

Nobody said that J.O. didn't have poor hands in that one game.  What you seem to be arguing is that, based on that one game, he must always have poor hands.

That author attributed his poor hands to his long layoff, as did I, as did most observers.  I think that's the only fair way to look at it, based upon the skills J.O. has demonstrated in his career.

[Jon]

I wouldn't rule out the idea of KG playing some 3 if West or Daniels went down in the playoffs. 

And before everyone starts jumping on me about how KG has "lost a step" or "can't keep up" with the likes of LeBron, etc., let's also ask this question: would KG be any worse at the 3 for 10 mpg than Daniels or anyone else the C's might land? 

Moreover, might he be better?  Sure, he might be a step slower than some, but he's also 5 inches (or more) taller than most other options, allowing him to stay a step or two further back.  He also possesses a better outside game than Daniels or Tony Allen ever had, and they seem(ed) to do quite fine backing up PP. 

So, I'm intrigued about the idea of getting a bigger 3.  But I think there's ways to use 5 big men effectively as well. 

I would be open to that.

I would be worried about him matching up against LeBron but against the Lakers, Magic or Bulls? That would work fine. None of those teams have the options necessary to take advantage of KG and Garnett would certainly have an advantage in the post on the other end of the floor. It would be fine against Miami too so long as it's not LeBron or Wade that KG has to defend.

With the sheer amount of talent amongst the big men and the different combinations / options they can create ... the Celtics are more able to use KG at the three than they ever have been before. Shaq's size and offensive ability at center. A terrific shot-blocking combination with Jermaine and Perk. Or BBD's midrange game and mobility defensively. They could create lots of different looks.

That type of lineup could be hugely effective.

-----------------------------------------------------

Actually, that would be worth trying out even if the Celtics don't have any injuries to backup wings. Test it now and then in the regular season once (if?) everyone gets healthy.

Those lineup combinations could be considerably more effective than using Marquis in situations where the 3 man doesn't have to check a top scorer/athlete.

Heck, I think he'd do a nice job on LeBron.  He's taller than LeBron, not that much slower, and can stick with him muscle-wise.  Putting KG on LeBron and having Jermaine and Kendrick on the floor too might be a very effective way to give LeBron some headaches.