LeBron Says Contraction "would be great for the league"

[Redz]

whatever his reasoning, I agree with him

[LooseCannon]

I wouldn't want to contract any teams unless those franchises would still be in horrible shape if you gave them competent ownership and moved them to the best possible location that wants an NBA team.

I think you're viewing everything in a very simple and unrealistic way.  You can't just rip ownership away from these owners and put someone else in charge.  Who is to say that the new owner wouldn't be just as bad?  Again, it is easy to say with hindsight that owner A or B sucks but I'm sure they gave an impression that they were capable and they all have the money necessary. 

You also can't just move around these teams willy nilly.  There has to be a stadium that can support the team and that's a big issue.  Cities and states often have to pay for the stadiums to be built and money isn't exactly being thrown around.  For example, the Kings will probably be out of Sac soon because California has made it so that the state will not pay for the construction of a stadium which the Kings need.  There are other cities that might have interest in a team but it's not as simple as just tossing a team from city A to city B.  You also have to factor in attendance, which can be tough to do, because even good teams like Atlanta for example are not supported through attendance and that is not something anyone can control.  The Thunder are an example of successful movement of an NBA franchise, but the ability for the city to support a team it was tested first when the Hornets played in Oklahoma City for a season and the NBA saw that the fans there wanted a team.  You can't just guess that the fans will support a team because you never know.


I'm not saying there is not an American city that wouldn't support a moved NBA team right now, maybe there is one, but it's not like every city is capable and/or clamoring for its own NBA team.  The government has to put up money for that to happen and if you didn't notice state, federal, and local governments are operating at a loss in many areas of the country.

I'm aware of all of these issues.  I don't want the NBA to be able to create a scarcity of franchises that leads to enough team-less cities that can be played off against each other and cities with teams in financial trouble so that they can extort concessions from local governments to build arenas.

It's typical soulless corporate behavior of trying to have guaranteed profit without having to actually produce a good product.  If a team is struggling due to incompetent ownership, contraction isn't the answer.  If no one wants to buy the team even with a clear path to moving the franchise elsewhere, then I could understand wanting to contract.  Maybe the Hornets fit that description, maybe not.

[Moranis]

"Get rid of New Orleans, Memphis, Toronto, Sacramento, Oklahoma City, and Charlotte.  Then just shift the divisions around a bit."

How do you justify throwing OKC in the midst of that list? They're on the rise, and they're still young. Like I said in my last post, think back on the teams that have won besides the Lakers and Celtics, and consider the fact that the league is competitive, even when some teams are currently losing. One of the teams that I could see being moved, but not cut from the league all together is the LA Clippers. LA simply does not need two teams, and Blake Griffin and co. will always be outshined by their current roommates.

If teams aren't succeeding financially where they are, then they should not be cut...they should simply be moved to cities where they will flourish (Vegas, anyone?)

Contraction isn't about how good the team is, it is about how viable the market is, how easy it is to draw fans, the money it can make, etc.

[Snakehead]

It's typical soulless corporate behavior of trying to have guaranteed profit without having to actually produce a good product.  If a team is struggling due to incompetent ownership, contraction isn't the answer.  If no one wants to buy the team even with a clear path to moving the franchise elsewhere, then I could understand wanting to contract.  Maybe the Hornets fit that description, maybe not.

I take issue with the underlined part of what you said because again, Atlanta and New Orleans are examples of two teams that aren't doing well attendance wise despite that they have quality teams.  New Orleans in particular is a financial mess despite being a good team.

[housecall]

My question is where is the fine for Lebron speaking out aganist the way the league is presently constructed?Isn't that one of D.Sterns pet peeves?

Lebron's words"it wasn't so watered down as it is now"is saying that the league basically sucks now compared to the 80's.  

Prez.D.Fish is aganist Lebron

[Eja117]

Lebron:

"Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the '80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team," James said. "The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is [now]."

Who, besides the Celtics and the Lakers, met that standard in the 80's? Today, the Lakers and the Celtics again are the only two teams that meet that standard. Nothing has changed. The league is no more watered down than it was in the 80's.  Any dilution that occurred by expansion was off set by improvement in talent, and influx of European professionals.

On the other hand, a contraction of one or two teams would obviously improve the league from a competitive POV. 

Exactly. He just wants there to be less teams for him to go through and probably doesn't realize how the Celts were made. Talent doesn't just happen. It takes a coach and GM.

You really think Lebron thinks contraction would be good because there would be less teams for him to have to go through??? That's really what you think??? Just absurd.

He's really worried about having to go through Minnesota and Charlotte this year. He knows he can never get by Corey Brewer and Darko's Twolves so his only way to a ring is getting them contracted... I'm sure thats what Lebron's thinking.

I mean come on, think at least a little bit.

Contraction would make other teams stronger. If anything it would make Miami's run more difficult because all the weaker teams would get stronger since they would get the best players from the contracted teams. 

Yes. I think Lebron is basically about trying to take the easier road.  You really think he wants things to be harder for him?

Again, you completely miss the point. Let's use some logic. You really think contraction makes Lebron's path to a ring the easier road???

Yes. Because now when his buddies create these super teams like he did it won't matter.  Instead of having to worry about a few teams equally as good as his they will canabilize themselves and he won't have to worry about almost any. What's harder? To win a league with 45 teams or 22? 

At least it's a shorter road.  Look at the Olympics. Lots of talent spread out everywhere. Same thing as the World Cup.  Easy to win in that?

[Moranis]

Lebron:

"Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the '80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team," James said. "The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is [now]."

Who, besides the Celtics and the Lakers, met that standard in the 80's? Today, the Lakers and the Celtics again are the only two teams that meet that standard. Nothing has changed. The league is no more watered down than it was in the 80's.  Any dilution that occurred by expansion was off set by improvement in talent, and influx of European professionals.

On the other hand, a contraction of one or two teams would obviously improve the league from a competitive POV.  

Exactly. He just wants there to be less teams for him to go through and probably doesn't realize how the Celts were made. Talent doesn't just happen. It takes a coach and GM.

You really think Lebron thinks contraction would be good because there would be less teams for him to have to go through??? That's really what you think??? Just absurd.

He's really worried about having to go through Minnesota and Charlotte this year. He knows he can never get by Corey Brewer and Darko's Twolves so his only way to a ring is getting them contracted... I'm sure thats what Lebron's thinking.

I mean come on, think at least a little bit.

Contraction would make other teams stronger. If anything it would make Miami's run more difficult because all the weaker teams would get stronger since they would get the best players from the contracted teams.  

Yes. I think Lebron is basically about trying to take the easier road.  You really think he wants things to be harder for him?

Again, you completely miss the point. Let's use some logic. You really think contraction makes Lebron's path to a ring the easier road???

Yes. Because now when his buddies create these super teams like he did it won't matter.  Instead of having to worry about a few teams equally as good as his they will canabilize themselves and he won't have to worry about almost any. What's harder? To win a league with 45 teams or 22?  

At least it's a shorter road.  Look at the Olympics. Lots of talent spread out everywhere. Same thing as the World Cup.  Easy to win in that?

It's easier to win in a league of 45 teams if the talent is the same in both situations.  With 45 teams you may have 1 good player per team, if you just cut that in half then you have 2 good players per team and you eliminate all of the crappy players.

[Moranis]

As an example, if you cut the 6 teams I suggested (New Orleans, Memphis, Toronto, Sacramento, Oklahoma City, and Charlotte) and then had an inverse record draft all of a sudden Minnesota is adding Durant, Washington is adding C. Paul, etc.  Way more difficult night in and night out if you start doing things like that.  There are no nights off.

[Finkelskyhook]

Not surprised that most chooses to go at Lebron's neck instead of admitting he's right

Well, lets just have Stern bestow the messiah defacto commissionership.

The messiah is officiated like he's the NBA commissioner now. 

You can mudsling if you want but that doesn't change that LeBron's point is valid.  You aren't providing anything constructive that's for sure.

Well, snakehead, I provided something contructive earlier.  Should we have contracted the Heat based on the first 15 games of the season when they were playing poorly?  If the market bears this many teams, so be it.  If the market doesn't.... Like him or not, Stern is the most brilliant commissioner in sports.  I don't like him.  I don't like the way stars are officiated...That obviously comes from the top.  But Stern has taken a product, expanded it both nationally and internationally.  He'll contract if it's prudent to do so. 

[Snakehead]

Not surprised that most chooses to go at Lebron's neck instead of admitting he's right

Well, lets just have Stern bestow the messiah defacto commissionership.

The messiah is officiated like he's the NBA commissioner now. 

You can mudsling if you want but that doesn't change that LeBron's point is valid.  You aren't providing anything constructive that's for sure.

Well, snakehead, I provided something contructive earlier.  Should we have contracted the Heat based on the first 15 games of the season when they were playing poorly?  If the market bears this many teams, so be it.  If the market doesn't.... Like him or not, Stern is the most brilliant commissioner in sports.  I don't like him.  I don't like the way stars are officiated...That obviously comes from the top.  But Stern has taken a product, expanded it both nationally and internationally.  He'll contract if it's prudent to do so. 

No we shouldn't contract the Heat because the played poorly for the first 15 games... that would be absolutely illogical and insane.  How about a reasonable example like the Kings who need a new stadium, struggle in attendance, and have been mediocre for years?  Or the Hornets who can't get attendance numbers and haven't made a profit for years?  Or the Bobcats, who have failed financially, attendance wise, and in putting a quality team on the court every season except last year when they were just over .500 in a weak Eastern Conference... and all that progress is gone this year as the team looks like it will be blown up.  At least use reasonable examples, the Heat are obviously not one.


And regardless, though LeBron's comments have merit in speaking to competitiveness across the league, the most important and pressing matters are financial and attendance ones and a lot of teams that are bad also are having trouble in those areas.  Even good teams are too.  The fact is the market really hasn't bared the current NBA setup and the future is getting worse, for example in New Orleans Stern has been giving the team money to stay afloat and the owner has been putting in money out of his own pocket to the tune of millions and operating at a loss for years now.

[Finkelskyhook]

The reality, snakehead, is that Stern and the owners are the ones dealing with the losses.  They're in the arena.  We're on the outside looking in.  They see the bigger picture.  A knee jerk reaction based on a local economy or current economic times would do way more for instability than staying the course...They must think that. 

[Tayo]

Lol, if anything the NBA should add more teams and the regular season should be way longer...

^I'm not sure what it would do to the pacing of professional basketball if the sport was scaled to resemble the MLB, however in theory the NBA would then have more stadiums, more franchises, more games going on a given night and more opportunities to gain viewers or fill seats in basketball stadiums, as opposed to baseball stadiums which for the most part are outdoor facilities 

...In all seriousness, you can't expect guys like LeBron James to feel any sympathy for other NBA athletes or franchises that aren't the cream-of-the-crop as far as talent is concerned. From reading that article it's almost as if LeBron James just wants to beat other NBA players and teams so badly that they either lose or quit their jobs. Also, it's a little unrealistic to expect that every team in the 80's had a handful of All-Stars, Superstars and HOF'ers, though in this case LeBron James might just be exaggerating.

P.S. this is one of my other accounts on Celticsblog; there have been other topics like this one on CB as far as downsizing the NBA is concerned however I think it's interesting that LeBron James is mentioning something like that. I usually (almost always) post as 'Witch-King' on this blog so don't think that I'm trolling or anything (I just don't want people to think that I'm actually evil because of the Lord of the Rings Novels/franchise  ). Merry Christmas.

[Eja117]

At the very least I don't automatically buy the premise that more teams equals a worse product.  There are well over 100 NCAA D1 teams and obviously the talent is less, but many people think it's a far better product.

Back in the 1800s they had like 12 teams in MLB right? Was it better?  Some would argue it was since back then there were pitchers that hit well and whatnot, but I don't see baseball as lots worse now than it was in the 80s or 70s or whatnot.


Is the NFL noticeably worse than it was in 1994?  Since 94 they have added 4 new teams.  Carolina, jacksonville, the new Browns, and the Texans after the Oilers moved.

4 out of 32.  That's more than 10% of the league.  Is the league 10% worse?  Do you find yourself saying....man the league just isn't good anymore.

Of course not. In fact back in the 70s and 80s the league just went back and forth between the 49ers, Cowboys, and Steelers.  And the NFC dominated the AFC forever.  How was that better?

If people think you're going to contract 2 or 3 teams and then suddenly players will start hitting their jumpers and playing defense and going to practice instead of getting high with their posse's then they are out of their minds.

[Finkelskyhook]

At the very least I don't automatically buy the premise that more teams equals a worse product.  There are well over 100 NCAA D1 teams and obviously the talent is less, but many people think it's a far better product.

Back in the 1800s they had like 12 teams in MLB right? Was it better?  Some would argue it was since back then there were pitchers that hit well and whatnot, but I don't see baseball as lots worse now than it was in the 80s or 70s or whatnot.


Is the NFL noticeably worse than it was in 1994?  Since 94 they have added 4 new teams.  Carolina, jacksonville, the new Browns, and the Texans after the Oilers moved.

4 out of 32.  That's more than 10% of the league.  Is the league 10% worse?  Do you find yourself saying....man the league just isn't good anymore.

Of course not. In fact back in the 70s and 80s the league just went back and forth between the 49ers, Cowboys, and Steelers.  And the NFC dominated the AFC forever.  How was that better?

If people think you're going to contract 2 or 3 teams and then suddenly players will start hitting their jumpers and playing defense and going to practice instead of getting high with their posse's then they are out of their minds.

Excellent post.  I don't see the how contraction would improve the NBDL much either.  Pretty solid play down there now...And hellaciously better officiating.

[Snakehead]

The reality, snakehead, is that Stern and the owners are the ones dealing with the losses.  They're in the arena.  We're on the outside looking in.  They see the bigger picture.  A knee jerk reaction based on a local economy or current economic times would do way more for instability than staying the course...They must think that. 

I think a lot of the owners and execs probably want contraction/major restructuring... I don't know why you're kind of assuming they don't. They are already trying to lower these player contracts so they can try to get a little more profit or some at all.  The Hornets operating at a loss for the last 4 or 5 seasons isn't a knee jerk reaction and that is outside our current economic downturn.  I guess we will see if the league contracts soon.  I think it probably will because we already have plenty of proof some of these teams are struggling and that's the bottom line IMO.