Enter the era of the superloser

[Eja117]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

A better example for Lebron would be that he's the top student out of the top grad school in the country, he signs a contract with a struggling firm for a set amount of years. He then takes the firm near the top of the industry and makes the owners millions and millions and millions of dollars and lots of fame and fortune. The company is always near the top of the industry but cant quite reach the peak. Maybe a very very successful search engine that is incredibly profitable but can't quite get past Google. When his contract is up, he decides that he misses his friends and isn't happy stuck in the same firm in the same area of the midwest that he's lived in his whole life. After finishing his contract, he gets an offer from a better firm in a bigger better city where his 2 best friends currently work. Do you really blame him for leaving? Do you call this person all kinds of terrible names? I think everyone here would do the same.

Again, I'm not backing the Decision and the way he went about this whole situation, but I have no problem whatsoever in the fact that he left Cleveland.



Another thing to remember is that even in the above scenario or any real life work scenario, if you get recruited to a big company, you don't have to go. It's your choice.

You get drafted into the NBA. Do you think Chris Bosh, a guy from Texas who went to school in Georgia should HAVE TO live the next 15 years of his life in Canada? I'm not dissing Canada, but I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving either.

Heck, I get bored with my work, I've moved 3 times in the past 3 years. I like seeing other places and cities. I think more people should explore the country/world more. Not just visiting no vacation, but living there. It's a whole different experience than simply passing through. And I know I can probably only do this while I'm young and have the freedom and lack of responsibilities. Lebron only has so many years in the NBA and if he doesn't want to spend every single one of them in Ohio, I understand completely.

And Lebron hasn't been excused for anything. I would say the complete opposite. He has taken an absurd amount of negative backlash for this. I would argue much more than he deserves.

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day.  Were there other good executives helping him? Yes.  Did he get success at the new company? Remains to be seen.

Did the executive get called basically a wiz kid genius of business constantly and called things like "chosen one" and "king"? Did he ever do or say anything to dissuade anyone of that interpretation of him?

These guys have to live with the pros and cons of what they did and didn't do.  Lebron has diminished his career with this move. He can't be called "chosen one" or "king" ever again.  If he wins he's Scottie Pippen.  If he loses he's Dan Marino with a lot less excuses.


Did this executive conspire with other executives to leave all at the same time and not really make independent decisions? Did the new corporation go on to succeed or fail?  If it didn't get success then he can't really be considered a good ceo any more.  And if it fails then we have to consider he might even be a bad one.

[Eja117]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Well wait a second. If I'm the CEO of a company doing poorly and then I join another company and they have good executive officers and that company does poorly as well....then I will definitely start to get a reputation as a poor officer. People's work history definitely follows them.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

Some of these guys are going to end up as the Dan Marinos of their era...only it will be like if Marino were also throwing to great receivers and had a great line and a great running back.....if Dan Marino had all that and STILL no rings....then he's not just Dan Marino any more.....now he LEGEND Dan Marino.....if Lebron wins no rings.....he's not just going to be a loser.....he'll be a superloser.    It's the risk he took.

By doing poorly do you mean the CEO put the company on his back for 7 years and got them to the "Corporation Finals" when they had no business being there because the rest of the company was garbage?  You think 7 years is a "short time"?  And brought the company unprecedented success they had never known?  And was the best CEO of all CEOs for two years in a row and by far the best employee the company ever had? And he put up some of the best numbers any CEO has ever put up in those first seven years? Wow that's some failure. 

And by his new company doing poorly, do you mean 21-9, first in their division, and currently 2nd in the East to a team that went to the Finals last year (US)?  And they are going to get better as the year goes on? I wish I failed like that.

But seriously, breaking down this whole thing lets also acknowledge LBJ was DRAFTED and did not have a choice where he went.  He doesn't owe Cleveland anything, it's not like they went out of their way where others would not.  Everyone wanted him.



And your saying he took a risk, great, who cares?  He shouldn't be walking on eggshells worrying about what people say, he should find the best situation for him where he has the best chance of winning.  And if there is a lot of pressure to win and he still went, seems like he wants to win first and foremost and he welcomes the pressure.



and good post dpaps, TP to you.

If he shouldn't worry about what people say then stop making "Please feel sorry for me. Woops I made a mistake. Woops did I really ruin my legacy? "(Of course he did. Stop asking stupid questions) commercials.


Here's another question.  Did this greatest employee the company ever had quit on them?  Was he like nowhere to be found in crunch time?   Doesn't he owe his best effort when he actually is under contract? 

In the business world when an employee acts the way in which he did there are legal consequences.

Granted they don't draft in the real world yadda yadda

[Rondo_is_better]

esoteric comparison

[Snakehead]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Well wait a second. If I'm the CEO of a company doing poorly and then I join another company and they have good executive officers and that company does poorly as well....then I will definitely start to get a reputation as a poor officer. People's work history definitely follows them.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

Some of these guys are going to end up as the Dan Marinos of their era...only it will be like if Marino were also throwing to great receivers and had a great line and a great running back.....if Dan Marino had all that and STILL no rings....then he's not just Dan Marino any more.....now he LEGEND Dan Marino.....if Lebron wins no rings.....he's not just going to be a loser.....he'll be a superloser.    It's the risk he took.

By doing poorly do you mean the CEO put the company on his back for 7 years and got them to the "Corporation Finals" when they had no business being there because the rest of the company was garbage?  You think 7 years is a "short time"?  And brought the company unprecedented success they had never known?  And was the best CEO of all CEOs for two years in a row and by far the best employee the company ever had? And he put up some of the best numbers any CEO has ever put up in those first seven years? Wow that's some failure. 

And by his new company doing poorly, do you mean 21-9, first in their division, and currently 2nd in the East to a team that went to the Finals last year (US)?  And they are going to get better as the year goes on? I wish I failed like that.

But seriously, breaking down this whole thing lets also acknowledge LBJ was DRAFTED and did not have a choice where he went.  He doesn't owe Cleveland anything, it's not like they went out of their way where others would not.  Everyone wanted him.



And your saying he took a risk, great, who cares?  He shouldn't be walking on eggshells worrying about what people say, he should find the best situation for him where he has the best chance of winning.  And if there is a lot of pressure to win and he still went, seems like he wants to win first and foremost and he welcomes the pressure.



and good post dpaps, TP to you.

If he shouldn't worry about what people say then stop making "Please feel sorry for me. Woops I made a mistake. Woops did I really ruin my legacy? "(Of course he did. Stop asking stupid questions) commercials.


Here's another question.  Did this greatest employee the company ever had quit on them?  Was he like nowhere to be found in crunch time?   Doesn't he owe his best effort when he actually is under contract? 

In the business world when an employee acts the way in which he did there are legal consequences.

Granted they don't draft in the real world yadda yadda

Throwing "yadda yadda" in definitely adds validity to your argument.  That's usually how I know someone has a compelling argument, I look for "yadda yadda" in it...


Anyways, I don't want to debate the commercial but you're not even close to what he was saying.  It was just about expectations others put on him, he does not feel he made a mistake at all.  Why would he care if you hate him?  He plays for a better team with his friends in a better city... I'm sure you aren't keeping him up at night. 

I think it's funny people are so worried about his "brand" and "legacy"... why?  I thought we were sports fans?  You sound like a marketing firm.  He hasn't even stopped playing, you don't talk about someones legacy till after they played, and if you are ever worried about someones "brand" you need to seriously find something else to do with your time and reconnect with the real world.

He didn't quit we beat him.  Maybe he quit by the end but that was because we played some of the best defense the NBA has ever seen and the rest of his teamates were ghosts out there.  As proof of LBJ's usual clutchness, I'll again cite a stat that shows him as by far the most productive player in the last moments of games last season http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM.  If you have any stats or facts that prove your point instead of just saying "he quit" let me know.

And there are no consequences for leaving when you are not under contract and are a free agent actually.  That's how it works.

[PosImpos]

guys: a regular working guy, whether a CEO or just a part of a big firm, is not the same as a professional athlete.  you can't equate the two.  

there are, and ought to be, different standards for each.

[TripleThreat]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Well wait a second. If I'm the CEO of a company doing poorly and then I join another company and they have good executive officers and that company does poorly as well....then I will definitely start to get a reputation as a poor officer. People's work history definitely follows them.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

Some of these guys are going to end up as the Dan Marinos of their era...only it will be like if Marino were also throwing to great receivers and had a great line and a great running back.....if Dan Marino had all that and STILL no rings....then he's not just Dan Marino any more.....now he LEGEND Dan Marino.....if Lebron wins no rings.....he's not just going to be a loser.....he'll be a superloser.    It's the risk he took.

By doing poorly do you mean the CEO put the company on his back for 7 years and got them to the "Corporation Finals" when they had no business being there because the rest of the company was garbage?  You think 7 years is a "short time"?  And brought the company unprecedented success they had never known?  And was the best CEO of all CEOs for two years in a row and by far the best employee the company ever had? And he put up some of the best numbers any CEO has ever put up in those first seven years? Wow that's some failure. 

And by his new company doing poorly, do you mean 21-9, first in their division, and currently 2nd in the East to a team that went to the Finals last year (US)?  And they are going to get better as the year goes on? I wish I failed like that.

But seriously, breaking down this whole thing lets also acknowledge LBJ was DRAFTED and did not have a choice where he went.  He doesn't owe Cleveland anything, it's not like they went out of their way where others would not.  Everyone wanted him.



And your saying he took a risk, great, who cares?  He shouldn't be walking on eggshells worrying about what people say, he should find the best situation for him where he has the best chance of winning.  And if there is a lot of pressure to win and he still went, seems like he wants to win first and foremost and he welcomes the pressure.



and good post dpaps, TP to you.

If he shouldn't worry about what people say then stop making "Please feel sorry for me. Woops I made a mistake. Woops did I really ruin my legacy? "(Of course he did. Stop asking stupid questions) commercials.


Here's another question.  Did this greatest employee the company ever had quit on them?  Was he like nowhere to be found in crunch time?   Doesn't he owe his best effort when he actually is under contract? 

In the business world when an employee acts the way in which he did there are legal consequences.

Granted they don't draft in the real world yadda yadda

Throwing "yadda yadda" in definitely adds validity to your argument.  That's usually how I know someone has a compelling argument, I look for "yadda yadda" in it...


Anyways, I don't want to debate the commercial but you're not even close to what he was saying.  It was just about expectations others put on him, he does not feel he made a mistake at all.  Why would he care if you hate him?  He plays for a better team with his friends in a better city... I'm sure you aren't keeping him up at night. 

I think it's funny people are so worried about his "brand" and "legacy"... why?  I thought we were sports fans?  You sound like a marketing firm.  He hasn't even stopped playing, you don't talk about someones legacy till after they played, and if you are ever worried about someones "brand" you need to seriously find something else to do with your time and reconnect with the real world.

He didn't quit we beat him.  Maybe he quit by the end but that was because we played some of the best defense the NBA has ever seen and the rest of his teamates were ghosts out there.  As proof of LBJ's usual clutchness, I'll again cite a stat that shows him as by far the most productive player in the last moments of games last season http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM.  If you have any stats or facts that prove your point instead of just saying "he quit" let me know.

And there are no consequences for leaving when you are not under contract and are a free agent actually.  That's how it works.

Tommy point. I'm not a Lebron fan and never will be unless he somehow ends up in a Celtic uniform. With that said, I respect his game and I feel Lebron's only real "mistake" in the offseason was his one hour announcement special during prime time. He signed a contract, he fulfilled that contract and then he went into a situation that he thought he had a chance to win in. Honestly, I think he should have went to Chicago and played with the likes of Rose, Deng and Noah but that is just my two cents.

[KCattheStripe]

guys: a regular working guy, whether a CEO or just a part of a big firm, is not the same as a professional athlete.  you can't equate the two.  

there are, and ought to be, different standards for each.

You're right, we should care way less about what professional athletes do.

[KCattheStripe]

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day.  Were there other good executives helping him? Yes.  Did he get success at the new company? Remains to be seen.

Did the executive get called basically a wiz kid genius of business constantly and called things like "chosen one" and "king"? Did he ever do or say anything to dissuade anyone of that interpretation of him?

These guys have to live with the pros and cons of what they did and didn't do.  Lebron has diminished his career with this move. He can't be called "chosen one" or "king" ever again.  If he wins he's Scottie Pippen.  If he loses he's Dan Marino with a lot less excuses.


Did this executive conspire with other executives to leave all at the same time and not really make independent decisions? Did the new corporation go on to succeed or fail?  If it didn't get success then he can't really be considered a good ceo any more.  And if it fails then we have to consider he might even be a bad one.

Actually, his scenario is better because it more closely pertains to what happened. Even if you are a wiz kid genius, you need a proper supporting cast. And as much as we like to glorify role players around here, if Anderson Varejo is your second best player, your team is in trouble. How a company brands it's best worker is it's own issue and not the fault of the worker.

I'm also confused by the line, "Did this executive conspire with other executives to leave all at the same time and not really make independent decisions? ". Can you not make a decision on your own to go work with others? I think you're a) Projecting somethings on to LeBron James that really aren't his issues and B) rushing far to quickly to judge the new Heat.

[dpaps]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

A better example for Lebron would be that he's the top student out of the top grad school in the country, he signs a contract with a struggling firm for a set amount of years. He then takes the firm near the top of the industry and makes the owners millions and millions and millions of dollars and lots of fame and fortune. The company is always near the top of the industry but cant quite reach the peak. Maybe a very very successful search engine that is incredibly profitable but can't quite get past Google. When his contract is up, he decides that he misses his friends and isn't happy stuck in the same firm in the same area of the midwest that he's lived in his whole life. After finishing his contract, he gets an offer from a better firm in a bigger better city where his 2 best friends currently work. Do you really blame him for leaving? Do you call this person all kinds of terrible names? I think everyone here would do the same.

Again, I'm not backing the Decision and the way he went about this whole situation, but I have no problem whatsoever in the fact that he left Cleveland.



Another thing to remember is that even in the above scenario or any real life work scenario, if you get recruited to a big company, you don't have to go. It's your choice.

You get drafted into the NBA. Do you think Chris Bosh, a guy from Texas who went to school in Georgia should HAVE TO live the next 15 years of his life in Canada? I'm not dissing Canada, but I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving either.

Heck, I get bored with my work, I've moved 3 times in the past 3 years. I like seeing other places and cities. I think more people should explore the country/world more. Not just visiting no vacation, but living there. It's a whole different experience than simply passing through. And I know I can probably only do this while I'm young and have the freedom and lack of responsibilities. Lebron only has so many years in the NBA and if he doesn't want to spend every single one of them in Ohio, I understand completely.

And Lebron hasn't been excused for anything. I would say the complete opposite. He has taken an absurd amount of negative backlash for this. I would argue much more than he deserves.

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day. 

... except yours doesn't accurately reflect what actually happened at all.

[Eja117]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

A better example for Lebron would be that he's the top student out of the top grad school in the country, he signs a contract with a struggling firm for a set amount of years. He then takes the firm near the top of the industry and makes the owners millions and millions and millions of dollars and lots of fame and fortune. The company is always near the top of the industry but cant quite reach the peak. Maybe a very very successful search engine that is incredibly profitable but can't quite get past Google. When his contract is up, he decides that he misses his friends and isn't happy stuck in the same firm in the same area of the midwest that he's lived in his whole life. After finishing his contract, he gets an offer from a better firm in a bigger better city where his 2 best friends currently work. Do you really blame him for leaving? Do you call this person all kinds of terrible names? I think everyone here would do the same.

Again, I'm not backing the Decision and the way he went about this whole situation, but I have no problem whatsoever in the fact that he left Cleveland.



Another thing to remember is that even in the above scenario or any real life work scenario, if you get recruited to a big company, you don't have to go. It's your choice.

You get drafted into the NBA. Do you think Chris Bosh, a guy from Texas who went to school in Georgia should HAVE TO live the next 15 years of his life in Canada? I'm not dissing Canada, but I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving either.

Heck, I get bored with my work, I've moved 3 times in the past 3 years. I like seeing other places and cities. I think more people should explore the country/world more. Not just visiting no vacation, but living there. It's a whole different experience than simply passing through. And I know I can probably only do this while I'm young and have the freedom and lack of responsibilities. Lebron only has so many years in the NBA and if he doesn't want to spend every single one of them in Ohio, I understand completely.

And Lebron hasn't been excused for anything. I would say the complete opposite. He has taken an absurd amount of negative backlash for this. I would argue much more than he deserves.

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day. 

... except yours doesn't accurately reflect what actually happened at all.

You act like he was just picking the best college for himself or the best street to live on.  I totally totally disagree. It was more like when you're out on the play ground and the "best" kids want to win so they somehow manage to team up so they can play with their "friends" and then they turn around and are like "What? What did we do? Why does anyone have a problem with this? What should we have done"?   

That's fine.  But then I refuse to acknowledge LBJ as one of the best ten players of all time or one of the top 3 of his.  And nobody else should either.

And I'm not going to show statistics. I know a quitter when I see one. I know a loser too.

MJ could have won with the cast he had in Cleveland. But not Scottie Pippen.

[Eja117]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Well wait a second. If I'm the CEO of a company doing poorly and then I join another company and they have good executive officers and that company does poorly as well....then I will definitely start to get a reputation as a poor officer. People's work history definitely follows them.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

Some of these guys are going to end up as the Dan Marinos of their era...only it will be like if Marino were also throwing to great receivers and had a great line and a great running back.....if Dan Marino had all that and STILL no rings....then he's not just Dan Marino any more.....now he LEGEND Dan Marino.....if Lebron wins no rings.....he's not just going to be a loser.....he'll be a superloser.    It's the risk he took.

By doing poorly do you mean the CEO put the company on his back for 7 years and got them to the "Corporation Finals" when they had no business being there because the rest of the company was garbage?  You think 7 years is a "short time"?  And brought the company unprecedented success they had never known?  And was the best CEO of all CEOs for two years in a row and by far the best employee the company ever had? And he put up some of the best numbers any CEO has ever put up in those first seven years? Wow that's some failure. 

And by his new company doing poorly, do you mean 21-9, first in their division, and currently 2nd in the East to a team that went to the Finals last year (US)?  And they are going to get better as the year goes on? I wish I failed like that.

But seriously, breaking down this whole thing lets also acknowledge LBJ was DRAFTED and did not have a choice where he went.  He doesn't owe Cleveland anything, it's not like they went out of their way where others would not.  Everyone wanted him.



And your saying he took a risk, great, who cares?  He shouldn't be walking on eggshells worrying about what people say, he should find the best situation for him where he has the best chance of winning.  And if there is a lot of pressure to win and he still went, seems like he wants to win first and foremost and he welcomes the pressure.



and good post dpaps, TP to you.

If he shouldn't worry about what people say then stop making "Please feel sorry for me. Woops I made a mistake. Woops did I really ruin my legacy? "(Of course he did. Stop asking stupid questions) commercials.


Here's another question.  Did this greatest employee the company ever had quit on them?  Was he like nowhere to be found in crunch time?   Doesn't he owe his best effort when he actually is under contract? 

In the business world when an employee acts the way in which he did there are legal consequences.

Granted they don't draft in the real world yadda yadda

Throwing "yadda yadda" in definitely adds validity to your argument.  That's usually how I know someone has a compelling argument, I look for "yadda yadda" in it...


Anyways, I don't want to debate the commercial but you're not even close to what he was saying.  It was just about expectations others put on him, he does not feel he made a mistake at all.  Why would he care if you hate him?  He plays for a better team with his friends in a better city... I'm sure you aren't keeping him up at night. 

I think it's funny people are so worried about his "brand" and "legacy"... why?  I thought we were sports fans?  You sound like a marketing firm.  He hasn't even stopped playing, you don't talk about someones legacy till after they played, and if you are ever worried about someones "brand" you need to seriously find something else to do with your time and reconnect with the real world.

He didn't quit we beat him.  Maybe he quit by the end but that was because we played some of the best defense the NBA has ever seen and the rest of his teamates were ghosts out there.  As proof of LBJ's usual clutchness, I'll again cite a stat that shows him as by far the most productive player in the last moments of games last season http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM.  If you have any stats or facts that prove your point instead of just saying "he quit" let me know.

And there are no consequences for leaving when you are not under contract and are a free agent actually.  That's how it works.

"People" didn't worry about his legacy. He brought it up. He specifically asked out loud to the world "Did I really ruin my legacy?"

And I'm saying "Yes. Of course he did? What a strange question."   And I seriously doubt I'm the only one.

[Snakehead]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Well wait a second. If I'm the CEO of a company doing poorly and then I join another company and they have good executive officers and that company does poorly as well....then I will definitely start to get a reputation as a poor officer. People's work history definitely follows them.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

Some of these guys are going to end up as the Dan Marinos of their era...only it will be like if Marino were also throwing to great receivers and had a great line and a great running back.....if Dan Marino had all that and STILL no rings....then he's not just Dan Marino any more.....now he LEGEND Dan Marino.....if Lebron wins no rings.....he's not just going to be a loser.....he'll be a superloser.    It's the risk he took.

By doing poorly do you mean the CEO put the company on his back for 7 years and got them to the "Corporation Finals" when they had no business being there because the rest of the company was garbage?  You think 7 years is a "short time"?  And brought the company unprecedented success they had never known?  And was the best CEO of all CEOs for two years in a row and by far the best employee the company ever had? And he put up some of the best numbers any CEO has ever put up in those first seven years? Wow that's some failure. 

And by his new company doing poorly, do you mean 21-9, first in their division, and currently 2nd in the East to a team that went to the Finals last year (US)?  And they are going to get better as the year goes on? I wish I failed like that.

But seriously, breaking down this whole thing lets also acknowledge LBJ was DRAFTED and did not have a choice where he went.  He doesn't owe Cleveland anything, it's not like they went out of their way where others would not.  Everyone wanted him.



And your saying he took a risk, great, who cares?  He shouldn't be walking on eggshells worrying about what people say, he should find the best situation for him where he has the best chance of winning.  And if there is a lot of pressure to win and he still went, seems like he wants to win first and foremost and he welcomes the pressure.



and good post dpaps, TP to you.

If he shouldn't worry about what people say then stop making "Please feel sorry for me. Woops I made a mistake. Woops did I really ruin my legacy? "(Of course he did. Stop asking stupid questions) commercials.


Here's another question.  Did this greatest employee the company ever had quit on them?  Was he like nowhere to be found in crunch time?   Doesn't he owe his best effort when he actually is under contract? 

In the business world when an employee acts the way in which he did there are legal consequences.

Granted they don't draft in the real world yadda yadda

Throwing "yadda yadda" in definitely adds validity to your argument.  That's usually how I know someone has a compelling argument, I look for "yadda yadda" in it...


Anyways, I don't want to debate the commercial but you're not even close to what he was saying.  It was just about expectations others put on him, he does not feel he made a mistake at all.  Why would he care if you hate him?  He plays for a better team with his friends in a better city... I'm sure you aren't keeping him up at night. 

I think it's funny people are so worried about his "brand" and "legacy"... why?  I thought we were sports fans?  You sound like a marketing firm.  He hasn't even stopped playing, you don't talk about someones legacy till after they played, and if you are ever worried about someones "brand" you need to seriously find something else to do with your time and reconnect with the real world.

He didn't quit we beat him.  Maybe he quit by the end but that was because we played some of the best defense the NBA has ever seen and the rest of his teamates were ghosts out there.  As proof of LBJ's usual clutchness, I'll again cite a stat that shows him as by far the most productive player in the last moments of games last season http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM.  If you have any stats or facts that prove your point instead of just saying "he quit" let me know.

And there are no consequences for leaving when you are not under contract and are a free agent actually.  That's how it works.

"People" didn't worry about his legacy. He brought it up. He specifically asked out loud to the world "Did I really ruin my legacy?"

And I'm saying "Yes. Of course he did? What a strange question."   And I seriously doubt I'm the only one.

Legacy - anything handed down from the past, as from an ancestor or predecessor


So no one has a legacy til they are in the past.  As in LBJ has no legacy right now because he is an active player.  At least use the word correctly.

[Eja117]

So does that mean Lebron used the word wrongly before I did?  He needs to wait till he stops playing before he can use the word? 

Did I really ruin what I will hand down to the league when I retire?  Yes. Yes you did Lebron.

Obviously what you do in the present is what creates your legacy. You don't get in some time machine or something and then get permission to use it.

[dpaps]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

A better example for Lebron would be that he's the top student out of the top grad school in the country, he signs a contract with a struggling firm for a set amount of years. He then takes the firm near the top of the industry and makes the owners millions and millions and millions of dollars and lots of fame and fortune. The company is always near the top of the industry but cant quite reach the peak. Maybe a very very successful search engine that is incredibly profitable but can't quite get past Google. When his contract is up, he decides that he misses his friends and isn't happy stuck in the same firm in the same area of the midwest that he's lived in his whole life. After finishing his contract, he gets an offer from a better firm in a bigger better city where his 2 best friends currently work. Do you really blame him for leaving? Do you call this person all kinds of terrible names? I think everyone here would do the same.

Again, I'm not backing the Decision and the way he went about this whole situation, but I have no problem whatsoever in the fact that he left Cleveland.



Another thing to remember is that even in the above scenario or any real life work scenario, if you get recruited to a big company, you don't have to go. It's your choice.

You get drafted into the NBA. Do you think Chris Bosh, a guy from Texas who went to school in Georgia should HAVE TO live the next 15 years of his life in Canada? I'm not dissing Canada, but I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving either.

Heck, I get bored with my work, I've moved 3 times in the past 3 years. I like seeing other places and cities. I think more people should explore the country/world more. Not just visiting no vacation, but living there. It's a whole different experience than simply passing through. And I know I can probably only do this while I'm young and have the freedom and lack of responsibilities. Lebron only has so many years in the NBA and if he doesn't want to spend every single one of them in Ohio, I understand completely.

And Lebron hasn't been excused for anything. I would say the complete opposite. He has taken an absurd amount of negative backlash for this. I would argue much more than he deserves.

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day. 

... except yours doesn't accurately reflect what actually happened at all.

You act like he was just picking the best college for himself or the best street to live on.  I totally totally disagree. It was more like when you're out on the play ground and the "best" kids want to win so they somehow manage to team up so they can play with their "friends" and then they turn around and are like "What? What did we do? Why does anyone have a problem with this? What should we have done"?   

Again, your analogy is just completely wrong and has no relevance to the situation. At least you abandoned your attempt at the CEO analogy because...wow. 

He was picking the best situation for him and his family to be happy. Hate him for it.

[Eja117]

Boo this thread. Only one team can win each year.

I join in your Booing.  I wouldn't want to lose if I was a professional basketball player, and if you're at the whims of others (coaches, players, execs, fans, the Draft Lottery, etc) and you have a limited window in which you can play professional ball, you should make the most of it.  If that means moving, so be it. KG and Ray left to come to a winner.  Could you blame Dwight Howard for wanting to leave after the awful trades that were just pulled in Orlando that will doom the team for years financially and still leave it unable to win a ring? Was  Roy's time patiently waiting for Portland to develop and get healthy to become a great team around him worth it now that his precious time as a star player may be over?  Get over it people, really. Just sounds bitter now.  Especially this assumption for Howard, since it is not a quote but a rumor, and also seems totally impossible from a Laker standpoint.

I'd love it if one of you quit your job or got a new job for better pay, a better location, your own well being, the interests of your family, etc. and one of these players called you all the deregatory words you call them.  It's really pathetic.  Get off your pious thrones.

Also if you get recruited to a company and you say "I'm going to really help this company" and then within a short time you leave having done nothing good for that company or leaving it in a precarious position you will definitely make no friends at that company.

Why is Lebron somehow excused from that? 

A better example for Lebron would be that he's the top student out of the top grad school in the country, he signs a contract with a struggling firm for a set amount of years. He then takes the firm near the top of the industry and makes the owners millions and millions and millions of dollars and lots of fame and fortune. The company is always near the top of the industry but cant quite reach the peak. Maybe a very very successful search engine that is incredibly profitable but can't quite get past Google. When his contract is up, he decides that he misses his friends and isn't happy stuck in the same firm in the same area of the midwest that he's lived in his whole life. After finishing his contract, he gets an offer from a better firm in a bigger better city where his 2 best friends currently work. Do you really blame him for leaving? Do you call this person all kinds of terrible names? I think everyone here would do the same.

Again, I'm not backing the Decision and the way he went about this whole situation, but I have no problem whatsoever in the fact that he left Cleveland.



Another thing to remember is that even in the above scenario or any real life work scenario, if you get recruited to a big company, you don't have to go. It's your choice.

You get drafted into the NBA. Do you think Chris Bosh, a guy from Texas who went to school in Georgia should HAVE TO live the next 15 years of his life in Canada? I'm not dissing Canada, but I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving either.

Heck, I get bored with my work, I've moved 3 times in the past 3 years. I like seeing other places and cities. I think more people should explore the country/world more. Not just visiting no vacation, but living there. It's a whole different experience than simply passing through. And I know I can probably only do this while I'm young and have the freedom and lack of responsibilities. Lebron only has so many years in the NBA and if he doesn't want to spend every single one of them in Ohio, I understand completely.

And Lebron hasn't been excused for anything. I would say the complete opposite. He has taken an absurd amount of negative backlash for this. I would argue much more than he deserves.

I see what you're saying.  Your scenario is just as good as mine.  We can go around all day. 

... except yours doesn't accurately reflect what actually happened at all.

You act like he was just picking the best college for himself or the best street to live on.  I totally totally disagree. It was more like when you're out on the play ground and the "best" kids want to win so they somehow manage to team up so they can play with their "friends" and then they turn around and are like "What? What did we do? Why does anyone have a problem with this? What should we have done"?   

Again, your analogy is just completely wrong and has no relevance to the situation. At least you abandoned your attempt at the CEO analogy because...wow. 

He was picking the best situation for him and his family to be happy. Hate him for it.

I don't hate him.  I agree with you. He couldn't be happy unable to lead a team to a ring and getting paid more to lead his home town team.   So he took less to create a superteam somewhere else and run from his problems. Presumably because he couldn't be happy with $120 million in Cleveland.
He didn't break any laws.  He just totally quit on his team and then was like "Well what was I supposed to do?"  Excuse him for it.