The real reason why the Celtics need to not sign contracts past 2012. (opinion)

[Chris]

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard.  

It worked perfectly well for Miami.

It is all about how good a package you can put together and the Celtics can put one heck of an offer on the table with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and their recent history of competing for NBA Titles.

If the Celtics had a weak offer, it'd be a waste of time ... just like it was a waste of time for New Jersey to be getting their hopes up ... but that isn't the case.

As things currently stand, Boston has the best offer on the market for Dwight Howard. That should be strongly pursued.

The recent history of winning titles will mean nothing to him, since two of the most crucial parts (including the guy I would imagine he would most like to play with in KG) will be gone to make room for him.

I agree that it should be strongly pursued, and there is no way Danny should take on long term contracts beyond the end of KG's deal unless they are for for true building block players.  But I just think some of you are getting carried away thinking Howard coming here is anywhere near likely. 

[Fafnir]

I think having the cap space to build around Rondo is the important thing. Not getting Howard, who would be the best FA, would be a blow.

But then Danny can proceed from there to rebuild around Rondo. If we're capped out with Perkins/Davis/Pierce/Rondo, *shrug*.

[KungPoweChicken]

It is an interesting thought. At the start of 2012, Rondo would be 26 years old and Howard 27. That would give them a solid six year window. However, it is my contention, given the severe offensive deficiencies of the aforementioned players, that the Celtics would need a premiere wing scorer. Rondo and Howard would not be a viable championship contender if surrounded only by role players: a dominant wing scorer would be needed.

Also, it would not surprise me if Ray and Garnett would be interested in re-signing on the cheap if the C's could land Howard. It would be a one last go around sort of thing.

[Who]

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard. 

It worked perfectly well for Miami.

It is all about how good a package you can put together and the Celtics can put one heck of an offer on the table with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and their recent history of competing for NBA Titles.

If the Celtics had a weak offer, it'd be a waste of time ... just like it was a waste of time for New Jersey to be getting their hopes up ... but that isn't the case.

As things currently stand, Boston has the best offer on the market for Dwight Howard. That should be strongly pursued.

The recent history of winning titles will mean nothing to him, since two of the most crucial parts (including the guy I would imagine he would most like to play with in KG) will be gone to make room for him.

I agree that it should be strongly pursued, and there is no way Danny should take on long term contracts beyond the end of KG's deal unless they are for for true building block players.  But I just think some of you are getting carried away thinking Howard coming here is anywhere near likely. 

I strongly disagree.

When the other possibilities are lottery teams who have never even played in a playoff series and have little history of winning ... versus a front office, ownership and possibly a coaching staff who have led a team to an NBA Title ... that is a huge difference and a major selling point.

[wdleehi]

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard.  

It worked perfectly well for Miami.

It is all about how good a package you can put together and the Celtics can put one heck of an offer on the table with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and their recent history of competing for NBA Titles.

If the Celtics had a weak offer, it'd be a waste of time ... just like it was a waste of time for New Jersey to be getting their hopes up ... but that isn't the case.

As things currently stand, Boston has the best offer on the market for Dwight Howard. That should be strongly pursued.

The recent history of winning titles will mean nothing to him, since two of the most crucial parts (including the guy I would imagine he would most like to play with in KG) will be gone to make room for him.

I agree that it should be strongly pursued, and there is no way Danny should take on long term contracts beyond the end of KG's deal unless they are for for true building block players.  But I just think some of you are getting carried away thinking Howard coming here is anywhere near likely. 

Howard is likely the big fish that year.  How can the Celtics not take a stab at him?  


And I am not saying it is likely.  Who really knows at this point?


What I am saying that is one of the main reasons that guys like Davis or Perk will not be making a big long term contract with the Celtics.

[Chris]

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard.  

It worked perfectly well for Miami.

It is all about how good a package you can put together and the Celtics can put one heck of an offer on the table with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and their recent history of competing for NBA Titles.

If the Celtics had a weak offer, it'd be a waste of time ... just like it was a waste of time for New Jersey to be getting their hopes up ... but that isn't the case.

As things currently stand, Boston has the best offer on the market for Dwight Howard. That should be strongly pursued.

The recent history of winning titles will mean nothing to him, since two of the most crucial parts (including the guy I would imagine he would most like to play with in KG) will be gone to make room for him.

I agree that it should be strongly pursued, and there is no way Danny should take on long term contracts beyond the end of KG's deal unless they are for for true building block players.  But I just think some of you are getting carried away thinking Howard coming here is anywhere near likely. 

Howard is likely the big fish that year.  How can the Celtics not take a stab at him?  


And I am not saying it is likely.  Who really knows at this point?


What I am saying that is one of the main reasons that guys like Davis or Perk will not be making a big long term contract with the Celtics.

You're not saying it's likely.  But Who (who I was responding to there) is.  He is saying the C's have the best chance at signing him.  And I just don't think it is a reasonable thing to discuss at this point. 

[Fafnir]

It is an interesting thought. At the start of 2012, Rondo would be 26 years old and Howard 27. That would give them a solid six year window. However, it is my contention, given the severe offensive deficiencies of the aforementioned players, that the Celtics would need a premiere wing scorer. Rondo and Howard would not be a viable championship contender if surrounded only by role players: a dominant wing scorer would be needed.

Also, it would not surprise me if Ray and Garnett would be interested in re-signing on the cheap if the C's could land Howard. It would be a one last go around sort of thing.

I think Rondo/Howard pairing would make a lot of wings look very good. You always need more than two pieces, but Rondo + a player of Howard's caliber would be the core of an elite team.

The rest is the easy part.

[Chris]

And here is my problem.  If this team falls apart next season, and Danny has a shot to get some real good building-blocks midseason using KG and/or Ray's expiring contracts, should he not do it, simply because of the slight chance that Howard might decide to come to Boston?

I am not talking about role players, or overpaid guys, but legit star quality players.  Should he be that hell bent on Howard?

[RebusRankin]

Howard and Rondo with Pierce and say Allen, KG on cheaper deals would be quite interesting.

[Who]

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard.  

It worked perfectly well for Miami.

It is all about how good a package you can put together and the Celtics can put one heck of an offer on the table with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and their recent history of competing for NBA Titles.

If the Celtics had a weak offer, it'd be a waste of time ... just like it was a waste of time for New Jersey to be getting their hopes up ... but that isn't the case.

As things currently stand, Boston has the best offer on the market for Dwight Howard. That should be strongly pursued.

The recent history of winning titles will mean nothing to him, since two of the most crucial parts (including the guy I would imagine he would most like to play with in KG) will be gone to make room for him.

I agree that it should be strongly pursued, and there is no way Danny should take on long term contracts beyond the end of KG's deal unless they are for for true building block players.  But I just think some of you are getting carried away thinking Howard coming here is anywhere near likely. 

Howard is likely the big fish that year.  How can the Celtics not take a stab at him?  


And I am not saying it is likely.  Who really knows at this point?


What I am saying that is one of the main reasons that guys like Davis or Perk will not be making a big long term contract with the Celtics.

You're not saying it's likely.  But Who (who I was responding to there) is.  He is saying the C's have the best chance at signing him.  And I just don't think it is a reasonable thing to discuss at this point. 

I think it has about the same likelihood as a team who has the worst record in the league winning the draft lottery. Somewhere around 20-25%.

I think at 20-25%, the Celtics have the best shot at landing Howard.

I think Orlando are second on the list somewhere a bit below that with several lottery teams (LAC, SAC, WAS, GSW) re-positioning themselves over the next 18 months.

That likelihood rating will change over time and with every 6 month period that passes ... the Celtics will have a clearer idea of whether their chance at landing Dwight Howard is increasing or decreasing.

[Sizzlack]

It is an interesting thought. At the start of 2012, Rondo would be 26 years old and Howard 27. That would give them a solid six year window. However, it is my contention, given the severe offensive deficiencies of the aforementioned players, that the Celtics would need a premiere wing scorer. Rondo and Howard would not be a viable championship contender if surrounded only by role players: a dominant wing scorer would be needed.

Also, it would not surprise me if Ray and Garnett would be interested in re-signing on the cheap if the C's could land Howard. It would be a one last go around sort of thing.

I think Rondo/Howard pairing would make a lot of wings look very good. You always need more than two pieces, but Rondo + a player of Howard's caliber would be the core of an elite team.

The rest is the easy part.

Clearly those are two VERY strong building blocks to start your foundation. Greater perimeter defender, Elite interior defender.

Sign Davis, start him at the 4, and he gives you the ability to spread the floor when need be, with his ability to his from 15-18 ft. Paul still starts at the 3, and you have money to sign a SG (maybe even Delonte, who would still probably come pretty cheap, and has shown the ability to start, and I'm sure would love to stay in Boston.)

The rest is speculation. But yes, clearly Rondo + Howard is everything a team needs to build on and gives you a great foundation offensively, and defensively.

There's no question, if he is available in 2013 and doesn't pick up his option, the Celtics (like every team) will make a run at him. And playing with Rondo, and the history of the organization can't hurt. Long as he can deal with the cold weather...

[Who]

And here is my problem.  If this team falls apart next season, and Danny has a shot to get some real good building-blocks midseason using KG and/or Ray's expiring contracts, should he not do it, simply because of the slight chance that Howard might decide to come to Boston?

I am not talking about role players, or overpaid guys, but legit star quality players.  Should he be that hell bent on Howard?

Depends on the quality of the players involved.

Borderline All-Star, perennial All-Star, All-NBA level or MVP level player.

---------------------------------------------------

Personally, I am not optimistic about the Celtics chances in the trade market just prior to 2012. They'll be offering up expiring contracts but little in the way of young talent which will likely price them out of the market for the top talents and leave them with a field of secondary talents.

Similar to how things played out last off-season.

So I'd consider it extremely doubtful than any opportunity would arise in that trade market at that point that would make me turn down an opportunity to land Dwight Howard the following summer.

[Sizzlack]

And here is my problem.  If this team falls apart next season, and Danny has a shot to get some real good building-blocks midseason using KG and/or Ray's expiring contracts, should he not do it, simply because of the slight chance that Howard might decide to come to Boston?

I am not talking about role players, or overpaid guys, but legit star quality players.  Should he be that hell bent on Howard?

Absolutely not. And IF that does happen, and those deals materialize and they make sense for the team, then no question about it, he'll go for it.

Danny's not an idiot, he knows he can't put all his eggs in one basket.

On the other hand, if the team doesn't collapse next year (or ya know, we don't have an NBA season) or any deals that make sense materialize for the expiring deals of KG and Allen, and Howard is available in 2013; he'd be crazy not to make a run at it.

[MBunge]

But neither Davis nor Perk is talented enough to give up to much future cap space when Howard could be available. 

Obviously, you'd rather have Howard than Perk and Davis, even though Howard's offensive limitations are still troubling.  But Perk and Davis are a very good combination and not something you just let walk away because you "might" have a shot at Howard.

Mike

Yes.  Without a doubt.  Top 2 player in the NBA.  He took a team with the next two best playing players being Lewis and Hedo to the Finals.  A team that beat the starting big man lineup of Davis and Perk.  He is the reason the Celtics need so much size in the East.  


A team built around Howard, Rondo and a star offensive player is the foundation of a multi-title team.  

Uh, I like Rondo and all, but Howard, Rondo and a star offensive player wouldn't be all that much better a combination than what Orlando had with Howard before, and they only made a trip to the Finals because KG was hurt.

Can people stop throwing the phrase "multi-title" around concerning Howard and LeBron until they actually win at least one?

Mike

[MBunge]

And just for some perspective on how good Howard is...

Dwight at 25 years old - 21.7 points, 12.5 boards, 2.3 blocks and 1 assist per game.

Shaq and 25 years old - 28.3 points, 11.4 boards, 2.4 blocks and 2.4 assists per game.

Dwight is awesome, but he's clearly a step down from Shaq simply because of his offensive limitations.  So, let's not get carried away with the idea that Dwight = multiple titles.

Mike