Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 230692 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1320 on: April 17, 2019, 11:50:43 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 850
  • Tommy Points: 61
My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.
No, Jon is also Azor Ahai. He will thrust his sword (edit: or some sword since he has longclaw) into Melisandre's heart and turn it into "Lightbringer". He is , after all, the prince that was promised.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:50:15 PM by GreenShooter »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1321 on: April 17, 2019, 12:06:25 PM »

Offline GreenShooter

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 850
  • Tommy Points: 61
I think Arya will kill the Mountain, not the Hound.
I think Cersei will kill Dany and Jon will go nuts and burn down, using the dragons, the red keep and all inside it. Maybe even re-melt the Iron Throne.
What I'm most curious about is Bran. He will play a huge role in this whole thing. I'm completely lost on any guesses with him.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1322 on: April 17, 2019, 12:17:01 PM »

Offline footey

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9807
  • Tommy Points: 1206


Which “themes” are you referring to when you say this?  I think most people misunderstand what George RR Martin was actually doing.

If you think the show/book is all about twists and shocking moments that defy expectations, you’re misinterpreting what makes this creative endeavor unique.


Subverting the trope of good intentions and ideals winning out; the noble hero triumphing; good vs evil; etc etc.


Generally the story of GoT so far has favored shrewd schemers who are willing to sacrifice their ideals in favor of recognizing reality. 

The last couple of seasons it's kind of gone away from that.  But early on the show was notable for how people who believed that right was on their side, who in an ordinary fantasy story would find a way to prevail in the end, met an unexpected and undignified death.  Whereas people willing to sacrifice their principles in favor of practicalities have managed to survive.


The dragon queen and the noble heir to the throne ending up on top at the end would seem much more in line with a traditional fantasy story, as opposed to a story that likes to subvert those kinds of expectations.

Indeed, Jon is now the classic fantasy protagonist.  He thought he was an illegitimate by-blow but actually he's a prince!  He came back from the dead!  He's literally the resurrected savior.

I would be surprised if he ended up making it to the end.  Seems more likely that he was brought back from the dead so that he could die again, later, in a more meaningful sacrifice.

I think that's a standard interpretation of Game of Thrones... and perhaps it's right, but I've never felt it was accurate.

To me, this series has always been about telling a conventional "heroes journey" fantasy story, but using a unique style of storytelling
from multiple perspectives that magnifies secondary characters and masks the conventional arc.

The best way I can explain this is to imagine telling the original Star Wars trilogy over the course of 8 Game of Thrones style seasons.

Both stories are essentially a "heroes journey" about an unknown adopted nobody (Luke and Jon Snow).  The difference is that instead of purely focusing on Luke/Jon the entire time, Game of Thrones heightens the roles of everyone else.   

So imagine if Season 1 of "Star Wars" opens with the Organa family on Alderaan.  You assume Bail Organa, the patriarch of the family, is the main character of the series.  Maybe the show casts some big-name actor to play him. We meet him, his wife, his daughter Leia, various characters in his life, etc. 

Meanwhile, we shift focus to a young Imperial Academy recruit named Biggs Darklighter.  We meet his family.  Maybe he has a girl he leaves behind.  He's got an envious buddy named Luke from back home who we briefly meet. 

There's other characters we focus on like Admiral Ackbar and his crew.  The mysterious hermit named Ben.  We spend a lot of time seeing the big baddie of the series, Wilhuff Tarkin do all sorts of terrible things to make us hate him.  They'd all be given the same storytelling weight.  They'd all be "main characters".   

In classic "Game of Thrones" style storytelling, we'd assume Biggs Darklighter was one of the heroes of the story.  Him defecting to the Rebel Alliance would be a massive plot point as we watched him rise up the ranks.  Meanwhile, we'd assume Bail Organa was the star of the show.  His storyline would heat up when his daughter Leia is kidnapped.  We'd spend a lot of time dealing with the political intrigue of Alderaan and the fallout of his daughter's kidnap.

Of course, this would all culminate in the very shocking moment in which the entire planet of Alderaan - Bail Organa included, gets completely blown up by a Death Star.  Think of the Red Wedding, but magnify it by millions of voices crying out in terror.  Imagine how people would freak out as not only is the main star of the show eviscerated, but everyone near and dear to him that we've grown to love are also blasted into star dust.   

It would come as a great shock when the pretty boy star of the show Biggs Darklighter is killed in combat by the shadowy figure who is second in command to Tarkin (Vader).   

As the show progressed, we'd learn more about the "magic" and mysticism underlying the political drama.  We'd learn that there's more to this shadowy Vader character than we believed.

Meanwhile, we follow the young farmboy Luke as he begins his journey.

Other key characters would be introduced along the way. 

Following the Game of Thrones model, Luke probably doesn't even find out that he's the son of Darth Vader until Season 8 Episode 1.   By then, we'd have seen so much death and destruction that people would assume the show-runners were sadists that had no intention of having a happy ending.

To me, this story has always been about Jon Snow's arc in the same way the original Star Wars is about Luke Skywalker. 

Everything in this story feels like it adds context to Jon Snow's story. 

- The Starks:  Gives context to Jon's moral upbringing and crucial half of his family story

- Kings Landing:  Gives context to the throne that belongs to Jon

- The Wall:  Gives context to Jon's growth as a leader

- Dany:  Her entire arc serves the purpose of giving us context to Jon's Targaryen background while subsequently introducing dragons

I feel like "Game of Thrones" is subversive, but not in the way people think.  It's not about defying basic storytelling principles when it comes to the large arc.  It's about how much depth and importance is given to the peripheral.  Standard storytelling, you tell a story about Alexander the Great completely focused on Alexander the Great from start to finish.  In this style, you tell a story about 330s BC Macedon told through the real-time perspective of multiple main characters - and don't even realize this is a story about Alexander the Great until the home stretch. 

Problem is that fans have spent several years hyper-analyzing every aspect of the books/show so they expect more grand surprises.  It almost undermines how pivotal it was to find out that Jon is indeed the true King.  We have 5 episodes left.  If this thing doesn't land on the conclusion of his arc, it would be really bizarre storytelling that would feel random and "twisty" for the sake of being twisty.

Well done.

I binge watched GOT two years ago, and must say my thoughts are not nearly as informed. I know nothing about the books.

Conventionally, I think you are correct; that Jon is the ultimate protagonist of the story.  Yet I am not so certain that Jon will both win out and survive in the end.  Certainly that would be the most satisfying end in the conventional sense of story telling. The writers, however, do  seem to relish doing the unexpected. And it is not at odds for the protagonist to die in the end and still get what he wants, sort of.  Good example is Walter White in Breaking Bad, which had a very satisfying ending in the view of many including mine.

I am also somewhat cynical about the influence the "Me Too" movement (which occurred during the filming of the last season, I think) may have on how the writers decide to conclude the story.  I would be very surprised if the ultimate ruler in GOT is not a woman.  Jon is not the only character with an arc, although he clearly is the spine of the story, as you have pointed out.  Several of the leading women, other than Cersei, have experienced significant growth or arc through the episodes, so it would not look completely out of left field were this to happen. 

So somehow, I see Jon's quest being satisfied (defeat of the white walkers, night king, the Lannisters and restoration of order), but through sacrifice where he probably dies, and a powerful woman ends up in charge.  I could see the Kingdom being split into two parts, with Sansa ruling one part, and Dani the other.  Maybe also introduce the concept of a democratic republic where citizens can elect a representative body of government.  This whole concept of family rule seems destined for extinction.

And I would be fine with that.




Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1323 on: April 17, 2019, 12:42:51 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Supposedly George R R Martin has said the show is going to end very closely to what he intended the books to end with ... so I doubt there’s going to be some pandering Me Too movement element.  If Dany ends up the ultimate victor, we can assume that was always the plan.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1324 on: April 17, 2019, 12:50:29 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38772
  • Tommy Points: -27376
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1325 on: April 17, 2019, 01:05:14 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6318
  • Tommy Points: 111
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.
Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1326 on: April 17, 2019, 01:25:28 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21845
  • Tommy Points: 1041
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.
Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.
Any number of things, but the most obvious and easiest would be Cersei not killing Robert.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1327 on: April 17, 2019, 02:00:20 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19799
  • Tommy Points: 2205
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1328 on: April 17, 2019, 02:06:19 PM »

Offline GreenShooter

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 850
  • Tommy Points: 61
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1329 on: April 17, 2019, 02:08:11 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38772
  • Tommy Points: -27376
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Your politics may suck, but your knack for storytelling is legendary. ;)


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1330 on: April 17, 2019, 02:25:03 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19799
  • Tommy Points: 2205
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Quote
In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.

Ooh hadn't thought of that. The motivations don't quite add up but not too hard to write around. I always just figured the show added the bit about the black-haired baby who died young to give an extra hint to the audience about who fathered the rest. Very possible they were also building in a loophole to use at the end.


Quote
The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Your politics may suck, but your knack for storytelling is legendary. ;)

I will never apologize for supporting the Greenseer New Deal.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1331 on: April 17, 2019, 03:16:16 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21845
  • Tommy Points: 1041
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.
she never gave birth to Robert's child in the books.  She had it aborted.  Which also makes the prophecy true that she would only have 3 children.

Gendry is Robert's son, but Cersei is not his mother.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1332 on: April 17, 2019, 03:56:45 PM »

Offline bopna

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1832
  • Tommy Points: 100
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.
she never gave birth to Robert's child in the books.  She had it aborted.  Which also makes the prophecy true that she would only have 3 children.

Gendry is Robert's son, but Cersei is not his mother.

Cersie also was aware of his existence, that's why he was wanted to be executed as well...no way Cersei execute's her lovechild with Robert if that were true.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1333 on: April 17, 2019, 04:12:47 PM »

Offline GreenShooter

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 850
  • Tommy Points: 61
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.
she never gave birth to Robert's child in the books.  She had it aborted.  Which also makes the prophecy true that she would only have 3 children.

Gendry is Robert's son, but Cersei is not his mother.

Cersie also was aware of his existence, that's why he was wanted to be executed as well...no way Cersei execute's her lovechild with Robert if that were true.
I have an explanation but too long to type out. It's why I said long story short. Just a mention, she did say in the show that she doesn't know what happened to the child ("they took him away and didn't tell me what they did with him. And I never even visited him after he was buried">). Unless she lied about it it's possible Robert knew her intentions to murder Robert's child so he hid him. And she ordered to have ALL his basterdd children killed, not just Gendry. Just sayin.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1334 on: April 17, 2019, 05:04:20 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19799
  • Tommy Points: 2205
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Bran is going to go back in time, stop the execution of Ned Stark, and put him on the Iron Throne. 

Best ending ever.

The best ending ever would be the Night King getting held off at Winterfell, playing his trump card by raising all the dead Starks in the vaults, they open the gate to let him in and say, "the North kneels to no one" and cut him to shreds while heavy metal music plays. Ghost helps.

Wonder how that would work? What is the best domino to save Ned? I'd guess the Hound not saving Loras.

In the show, probably saving the life of the one Cersei child that was Robert's.  In the book just telling Robert and Jon Arryn before he dies. Of course, winter still comes anyway and Robert's still a massive screwup but the defenses are a lot better.
Long story short, that child could be Gendry.
she never gave birth to Robert's child in the books.  She had it aborted.  Which also makes the prophecy true that she would only have 3 children.

Gendry is Robert's son, but Cersei is not his mother.

And in the show she did. My belief is the same as yours - he's not Cersei's kid - but GreenShooter's right that it could be something they'd use to make Gendry more of a "real Baratheon". Not likely, but plausible.  If they start calling back to that in the next couple of episodes it'd be a bit of a tell.

Cersie also was aware of his existence, that's why he was wanted to be executed as well...no way Cersei execute's her lovechild with Robert if that were true.

Joffrey gave the order if I remember right, not Cersei.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required