A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[footey]

The thing about the prophecy of R'hllor's religion is, as much as some people want to hang everything on those prophecies, the prophecies always seemed to be wrong.

Stannis was not the Prince Who was Promised. Neither was Jon, it turns out. The weapon of the Prince Who Was Promised that would kill the Night King didn't need to be bathed in the blood of a king.

Heck, even Melisandre's attempts to help in the Battle of Winterfell were useless. The Dothraki fire swords did nothing and neither did lighting the fire in the trenches.

About the only thing the God of Fire did was keep Dondarrion and Jon alive so that the Battle of Winterfell would be won.

Hate to say it but, all those in depth followers that based their idea on what would happen based on the God of Fire prophecies were swerved. Turns out the God of Fire was wrong about a ton of stuff.

Well, at least she correctly prophesized that Arya would kill the Night King, right?

[Moranis]

The thing about the prophecy of R'hllor's religion is, as much as some people want to hang everything on those prophecies, the prophecies always seemed to be wrong.

Stannis was not the Prince Who was Promised. Neither was Jon, it turns out. The weapon of the Prince Who Was Promised that would kill the Night King didn't need to be bathed in the blood of a king.

Heck, even Melisandre's attempts to help in the Battle of Winterfell were useless. The Dothraki fire swords did nothing and neither did lighting the fire in the trenches.

About the only thing the God of Fire did was keep Dondarrion and Jon alive so that the Battle of Winterfell would be won.

Hate to say it but, all those in depth followers that based their idea on what would happen based on the God of Fire prophecies were swerved. Turns out the God of Fire was wrong about a ton of stuff.

I think the show just crapped on the prophecy and didn't bother to follow it, not that the prophecy was wrong. 

[fairweatherfan]

Maybe I'm the only one, but honestly I was a little disappointed that it wasn't Jon that killed the Night King. I understand the idea that the show wanted to buck conventions by not making it the conventional hero who did it but not doing something just because its conventional doesn't actually make it a good decision. Jon was the one who confronted the white walkers first, he'd fought white walkers before, he had that stare down with the night king after Hard Home. It felt like that final confrontation was the end to his narrative ark, and then he didn't get it. Meanwhile Arya had almost no connection to that particular plot thread, I just didn't like that decision.

Its would be like all of star wars laying out the way it did, but then Luke gets lost in the death star on the way to confront Vader and Leia jumps out of a shadow to stab him last minute. That would also buck convention, it just wouldn't make any sense given the plot of the story.

I mostly agree, I don't mind that he didn't kill him just that his efforts were mostly useless. a more coherent way to do it would've been Jon, with some help, barely taking out the dragon then the Night King sending most of his subordinates to kill them, leaving an opening for Arya to sneak in close.

[Roy H.]

Wow, what lazy writing for the climax of this episode.  It's basically lifted straight from The Avengers (2012) when the Chitauri start to overwhelm them in the final battle.

The Hulk gets swarmed by hundreds of Chitauri laser blasts and it looks like he's overwhelmed.  Cap, Black Widow, and Hawkeye look like they're about to get overrun.  The Chitauri keep pouring out of the wormhole in infinite numbers.  All seems lost in several individual heroes situations until Iron Man guides a missile through the wormhole, destroying the Chitauri ship which then disables their thousands of fighters. 

Exactly how GOT ended last night.  About a dozen scenes of all the heroes starting to get overwhelmed.  You think it's impossible for them to fight off the wights any more, and then Arya kills the Night King.

Come on GOT.  Be original.

The Avengers didn't invent that either, the "kill the main guy/power source/mothership and the whole overwhelming threat immediately collapses" has been around forever. I agree it's generally a cheap out and an easy way of making a huge confrontation boil down to a single interaction.  Would've at least liked to see it set up by some strategic killing of other White Walkers that destroyed pockets of the army.

Yeah that is classic hive mentality.  It has existed in nature for thousands of years.  Ender's Game and countless other books, movies, tv shows, and video games (for example Starcraft) use that same trope when describing certain species.

It’s been around in literature since at least Dracula, although I think that the vampires he created had the chance of returning as living humans if they weren’t too far gone.

[CptZoogs]

Maybe I'm the only one, but honestly I was a little disappointed that it wasn't Jon that killed the Night King. I understand the idea that the show wanted to buck conventions by not making it the conventional hero who did it but not doing something just because its conventional doesn't actually make it a good decision. Jon was the one who confronted the white walkers first, he'd fought white walkers before, he had that stare down with the night king after Hard Home. It felt like that final confrontation was the end to his narrative ark, and then he didn't get it. Meanwhile Arya had almost no connection to that particular plot thread, I just didn't like that decision.

Its would be like all of star wars laying out the way it did, but then Luke gets lost in the death star on the way to confront Vader and Leia jumps out of a shadow to stab him last minute. That would also buck convention, it just wouldn't make any sense given the plot of the story.

I mostly agree, I don't mind that he didn't kill him just that his efforts were mostly useless. a more coherent way to do it would've been Jon, with some help, barely taking out the dragon then the Night King sending most of his subordinates to kill them, leaving an opening for Arya to sneak in close.

While he was not a total B.A. in the battle, I think it is worth noting the role he played in making sure they were ready.  He was the one that convinced Danny and her forces to join the fight.  He brought everyone else together before that.  In that sense, he was instrumental in the victory.

[green_bballers13]

what does droppin Endgame spoilers..*havent seen it yet* got to do with game of thrones first of all..smh




the way he defended her..epic..

stop choppin and screwin this ep..i loved it..snow was the hero and could not save the day..loved it

Totally agree. Great entertainment.

I do think some people get too far into this story (and other stories). Theories and opinions become more important than what actually happens in the show. I can't think of another show that has been overanalyzed more than this one.

Was it the best show in the series? No.
Was it garbage or trash? No.

[CptZoogs]

what does droppin Endgame spoilers..*havent seen it yet* got to do with game of thrones first of all..smh




the way he defended her..epic..

stop choppin and screwin this ep..i loved it..snow was the hero and could not save the day..loved it

Totally agree. Great entertainment.

I do think some people get too far into this story (and other stories). Theories and opinions become more important than what actually happens in the show. I can't think of another show that has been overanalyzed more than this one.

Was it the best show in the series? No.
Was it garbage or trash? No.

Even though people gripe, it IS part of the fun.  They wouldn't do it if they weren't fully invested.

[fairweatherfan]

Maybe I'm the only one, but honestly I was a little disappointed that it wasn't Jon that killed the Night King. I understand the idea that the show wanted to buck conventions by not making it the conventional hero who did it but not doing something just because its conventional doesn't actually make it a good decision. Jon was the one who confronted the white walkers first, he'd fought white walkers before, he had that stare down with the night king after Hard Home. It felt like that final confrontation was the end to his narrative ark, and then he didn't get it. Meanwhile Arya had almost no connection to that particular plot thread, I just didn't like that decision.

Its would be like all of star wars laying out the way it did, but then Luke gets lost in the death star on the way to confront Vader and Leia jumps out of a shadow to stab him last minute. That would also buck convention, it just wouldn't make any sense given the plot of the story.

I mostly agree, I don't mind that he didn't kill him just that his efforts were mostly useless. a more coherent way to do it would've been Jon, with some help, barely taking out the dragon then the Night King sending most of his subordinates to kill them, leaving an opening for Arya to sneak in close.

While he was not a total B.A. in the battle, I think it is worth noting the role he played in making sure they were ready.  He was the one that convinced Danny and her forces to join the fight.  He brought everyone else together before that.  In that sense, he was instrumental in the victory.

Yeah that's fair but he has quite the track record of blowing battles then getting bailed out at the last minute - Stannis, Sansa/the Vale and now Arya. To be fair the only one that was really bad was the fight against Ramsay, the other two he faced overwhelming odds. It's just weird in a show that was all about brutally punishing missteps that he keeps failing upward.

I do think some people get too far into this story (and other stories). Theories and opinions become more important than what actually happens in the show. I can't think of another show that has been overanalyzed more than this one.

Lost for sure.

Also not quite the same kind of show but we have far more posts about Celtics-related theories, opinions, counterfactuals etc than what actually happens on the court. It's what tends to happen when interest gets much bigger than content.

[ManUp]

So Bran became the 3 eyed Raven to be bait... The Night King is scared of Jon Snow... Arya kills the most feared and ancient character in the world Hy stabbing him in the back, despite him being surrounded by allies...

So so disappointing, all that foreshadowing and prophecy for nothing. I'll have to read the books for a real payoff.

[RPGenerate]

Just watched the episode, and wow, what a garbage ending that made no sense whatsoever, and basically just threw away 7 season worth of build-up. Rather would have let the Night King win than what actually happened.

[Sophomore]

Just watched the episode, and wow, what a garbage ending that made no sense whatsoever, and basically just threw away 7 season worth of build-up. Rather would have let the Night King win than what actually happened.

Kind of crazy, in retrospect, to remember how long this threat was built up, only to come crashing down so fast and in such an arbitrary way. The first five minutes of season 1 ep. 1 gave us the threat of the walkers!

[Casperian]

It was an entertaining episode, but none of it made any sense. Then again, the whole show felt a bit like glorified fan fiction since they passed the books, anyway.

I'm pretty sure this is not how things will play out in the books, not even close.

[nickagneta]

It was an entertaining episode, but none of it made any sense. Then again, the whole show felt a bit like glorified fan fiction since they passed the books, anyway.

I'm pretty sure this is not how things will play out in the books, not even close.

I think it will be close to this ending but Martin will tell the story with more detail and lay out the reasonings for some of what many are complaining about.

Like for instance, once they went past the books, a proper timeline of events went out the window. One of the reasons for the delay in releasing future books is that at one point Martin realized the timeline was way off, so had to rewrite like 500-1000 pages he had already written. The last two seasons the timeline has been stupid. People have seemingly transported thousands of miles almost instantly. That's terrible storytelling.

[Sophomore]

Loved the beginning of the battle when the lighted swords go dark. I think the darkness created a sense of mystery and dread. I actually preferred this vs. a day battle scene. This let us imagine terrible things before they actually came.

That was effective as theater, but as strategy it was baffling. They knew, more or less, that there was an enormous army of the dead out there, but they couldn't actually see it. How big was it? Nobody knew. Why would they send a small fraction of their army - and their only cavalry - off into the darkness to be cut down like that? As a military strategy, "split up so the enemy can fight you piecemeal" is a little unusual. Why not have them on the flanks, so that when the army of the dead engages the spearmen the cavalry rolls up from the sides?

If there are any dothraki left in Essos they should be p---ed at how their brothers were used up that way.

Yeah I don't know anything about military strategy but I thought it was kind of dumb to send the Dothraki out into the darkness.

After all, the night is dark and full of terror.

I joked with my wife that they were probably worried about running low on provisions.  Feeding a Dothraki hoard is no small task...

I thought the idea was to ride through cutting and trampling a good part of the undead horde as they don't have pikes or trenches. There was just too many and they had Giants which was a massive stopper. A few got smart and turned back.

Sending them off without any idea what was out there, and without any support from dragons, ground troops, or ranged weapons was pretty hard to figure. And that wasn’t even the worst of it.

Here’s a rundown.
https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/?fbclid=IwAR0CsqUo6FMY0FW54QQzqnN9qKzHk6Kj0_qkmyeV66voA0tpLHrY0uKtwyY

[tazzmaniac]

So Bran became the 3 eyed Raven to be bait... The Night King is scared of Jon Snow... Arya kills the most feared and ancient character in the world Hy stabbing him in the back, despite him being surrounded by allies...

So so disappointing, all that foreshadowing and prophecy for nothing. I'll have to read the books for a real payoff.

Arya didn't stab the Night King in the back.  The dead were frozen in place by the Night King.  One of the White Walkers did spot her which alerted the Night King so he was able to turn and catch her.  Then she did her trick of dropping the blade to her other hand and stabbed him in the chest. 

Correction: Chest not belly.