Shaq vs. Perk

[celtics2]

As long as Shaq is healthy he will start and Perk will have to learn to play 2nd fiddle. This is a business not a Social Club where one wonders about anothers feelings. Besides he ain't going to be running around like Peter Pan this season. For such a tough dude he's breaking down now with serious injuries. Shoulder and now a knee.

[ducksawce]

Shaq should definitely start.  His chemistry with the starters is beyond fantastic...and importantly, I don't think this is merely because Rondo is playing alongside him.  Shaq improves the starters' offensive efficiency so much because...

1) He's a reliable low post threat...something the starting unit has lacked for so long.
2)Shaq carves out such a massive space underneath (unlike Perk), that KG now has room to operate within 10 feet of the basket without having to post up every time.  KG is now scoring very efficiently and easily near the rim...and not so coincidentally he's grabbing an obscene amount of rebounds in the process.  This team is hard to beat when KG plays like this...courtesy of Shaq in part!
3)Shaq sets better picks than anyone, including Perk.  This benefits Ray more than anyone else.  Ray rarely has to shoot heavily contested jumpers now.  He's also not getting double-teamed like he did last year.  Much of this can be attributed to Shaq's offensive presence and pick-setting.

On the other side of things, I think Perk would help the bench out greatly. What the bench needs more of is not necessarily more offense...it badly needs rebounding and defense...two things Perk provides in spades.  In addition, his flaws on offense will be lessened against bench defenses.  Of course however, he'll likely be the starter against Orlando, so there ya go.

Finally, though Rondo does often play big minutes with the bench, I don't think his presence alongside the bench would ensure that Shaq would play well on the offensive end.  It is the ENTIRE starting unit that contributes towards Shaq's scoring efficiency and easy looks right now.  Even with Rondo playing on the second unit, Shaq's abilities would be wasted somewhat, as he would not have the benefit of the big 3 drawing so much attention themselves...and the Big 3 themselves wouldn't get the benefit of Shaq on offense.

[snively]

I didn't think this at the onset of the season, but I've come to the realization that Shaq isn't at his best as a post-up guy anymore.  He's best as a finisher, and nowhere is that skill more useful than alongside the big 4.  They also are the best cover for his defensive limitations.

I think Shaq is ideally suited to the role he's currently in.  Win the opening tip (has he lost a jump ball yet), act as wrecking ball for the big 4 and then cheer from the bench in the 4th.

Perk can offer a dramatic upgrade to Semih Erden off the bench, while playing essentially the same role.  Throw in 10 of those minutes that Baby currently plays with KG, usually to close out games, and he's up to 22 minutes a night. 

[GreenFaith1819]

My thing is - what is most important here? Team or player?

With that being said - if Shaq is still playing well with the starters when Perk is ready to come back, then out of fairness to the team I believe Shaq should stay with the starters.

Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well.

The main thing? Team flow. I hope it's not upset. Whatever is working well at that point of Perk's return should remain so.

Egos are ok - to a certain point. But Team is most important. From now until Mid-June 2011 everyone will get their shot at Stardom.

And hopefully it will be at the expense of The Lakers.

[BballTim]

With that being said - if Shaq is still playing well with the starters when Perk is ready to come back, then out of fairness to the team I believe Shaq should stay with the starters.

Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well.

  So then if Perk ends up starting a few games due to injuries then the job's his as long as he's able to play?

[GreenFaith1819]

With that being said - if Shaq is still playing well with the starters when Perk is ready to come back, then out of fairness to the team I believe Shaq should stay with the starters.

Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well.

  So then if Perk ends up starting a few games due to injuries then the job's his as long as he's able to play?

Why not? As long as he is fully healthy. The key is team flow.

[BballTim]

With that being said - if Shaq is still playing well with the starters when Perk is ready to come back, then out of fairness to the team I believe Shaq should stay with the starters.

Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well.

  So then if Perk ends up starting a few games due to injuries then the job's his as long as he's able to play?

Why not? As long as he is fully healthy. The key is team flow.

  So if it doesn't bother you that they make changes to who starts and you don't mind Perk starting, what was the point of posting that when Perk comes back he shouldn't start?

[GreenFaith1819]

Did you read my entire initial post, bball?

I answered it right there - and by the PM I sent you.

Did you read your PM?

[BballTim]

Did you read my entire initial post, bball?

I answered it right there - and by the PM I sent you.

Did you read your PM?

  Your PM (which I just read) didn't answer anything, and I don't think your post really answered the question either.

[GreenFaith1819]

Bball - Please allow me to elaborate:

In a previous Shaq - Perk thread, I stated that Perk should start. That debate was based out of loyalty to Perk and what he has done for us, and what he would've done if he had not went down in June.

Since then? We've acquired Shaq and JO. Shaq has played the most out of the two, and so far, from my own eyes, I must say that Shaq flows quite nicely with our starters.

IMO, I have not seen our Offense flow like this in a few years - even prior to 07-08. With Shaq we have 5 legitimate offensive options on the floor at one time.

Shaq is 38 years old, granted. But the man can still get the ball to the hoop, and he's not that bad defensively as I've read or heard.

Maybe a healthy KG is making things easier for Shaq on offense and defense? That could very well be.

But from what I've seen with Shaq? The same opportunities that Perk would've had down low, Shaq converts them a little more than Perk does. While Perk is a strong fellow in his own right, not many players are going to strip the ball from Shaq if he is under or near the basket. He is just too strong and clears out way more space than Perk.

There was a pic on the Blog main page a few weeks ago of Shaq holding the ball with both hands. You can barely see the ball with that pic. With those hands of his, Shaq can and has converted many alley-oop attempts from Rondo, Ray Paul, etc.

Perk - through no fault of his own - cannot do that.

Shaq - even at 38 - has an offensive nose for the ball. Perk doesn't have that, quite yet. He is certainly progressing towards that end, and at 26 years old I still hope Perk is in Green for the future of this team.

Perkins proved to me that he CAN score - to the tune of 12-13 pts (plus 11-12 rebs, 3 blocks) during the CHI/ORL series of 08-09 playoffs. He stepped up when we had no one else due to Powe and KG going down.

Can Perk provide the same output once he returns? I know that Perk will provide more Blocks than Shaq. But offensively Shaq fits well with our starters.

As for Shaq's Defense? I have not seen many ocassions this season where Shaq's rumored Pick and Roll deficiencies have hurt us. Like I stated earlier - maybe A Hungrier, madder, healthier KG is covering up for Shaq?

Maybe Lawrence Frank is giving us better options on how to use Shaq? I don't know. Maybe Rondo is making Shaq look good? He does that quite well for The Green, doesn't he?

Poster drza44 gives good insight into this Shaq - KG dynamic.

But all I know is - from what I am seeing of Shaq - he plays well with our starting 5 - so well it is ridiculous. It is like they've played together for years. And at 38 years of age the man still has some fire left in the tank.

I just want to use that fire in the best way. And IMO? It should be with the starters - even once Perk returns.

And even with Shaq starting, he is playing no more than 20-25 minutes. His body just can't take anymore. This will still leave a decent amount of minutes for Perk or JO - and I see JO even subbing for KG some.

Yes - I am reversing a position that I held from a previous thread about Perk/Shaq.

In the end - Doc will make the final call. With that I know it will work out for the best, because the goal is Banner 18. Might as well ride Shaq while he's here.

[BballTim]

Bball - Please allow me to elaborate:

  Long post, with quite a bit of elaboration. But it seems to be a different stance than:

  "Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well."

  or, in response to a question about if Perk should keep the starting job if he ends up with it due to any injuries:

  "Why not? As long as he is fully healthy. The key is team flow."

  Based on your statements, I've been able to narrow down your stance to one of: Shaq should start whenever he's healthy, either of JO or Shaq should start over Perk when he's healthy, or you don't have a problem with any of them starting.

[GreenFaith1819]

Bball - Please allow me to elaborate:

  Long post, with quite a bit of elaboration. But it seems to be a different stance than:

  "Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well."

  or, in response to a question about if Perk should keep the starting job if he ends up with it due to any injuries:

  "Why not? As long as he is fully healthy. The key is team flow."

  Based on your statements, I've been able to narrow down your stance to one of: Shaq should start whenever he's healthy, either of JO or Shaq should start over Perk when he's healthy, or you don't have a problem with any of them starting.

Yes - it is a different stance, like I stated. I cannot deny what other posters here have already stated before me - Shaquille O'Neal needs to be with the starters - OR:

Have Rondo glued to his hip on the second unit. Rondo has a knack for using Shaq and getting him the ball.

Just wanted to be clear with you. Not seeming to have this issue with other posters here.

[BballTim]

Bball - Please allow me to elaborate:

  Long post, with quite a bit of elaboration. But it seems to be a different stance than:

  "Same with JO - if for some reason JO is starting and Shaq is injured/resting once Perk gets ready to return, then JO should remain the starter, especially if the team is playing well."

  or, in response to a question about if Perk should keep the starting job if he ends up with it due to any injuries:

  "Why not? As long as he is fully healthy. The key is team flow."

  Based on your statements, I've been able to narrow down your stance to one of: Shaq should start whenever he's healthy, either of JO or Shaq should start over Perk when he's healthy, or you don't have a problem with any of them starting.

Yes - it is a different stance, like I stated. I cannot deny what other posters here have already stated before me - Shaquille O'Neal needs to be with the starters - OR:

Have Rondo glued to his hip on the second unit. Rondo has a knack for using Shaq and getting him the ball.

Just wanted to be clear with you. Not seeming to have this issue with other posters here.

  No, I mean a different stance than your posts from this morning. You said Shaq should start. You then said (in the same post) that if Shaq's out of the lineup for some reason and JO's starting when Perk returns then JO should remain the starter. You then responded to my post by saying that if Perk ends up starting due to injuries/rest that he should keep the starting spot. You seem to be saying that Shaq should be our starter, but you also seem to be saying that whoever ends up starting should keep starting.

[thirstyboots18]

You guys have lost me, but to go back to the beginning, I agree with Greenfaith.  I don't care who starts as long as the team timing and flow are not disrupted...who ever is playing within the "team" structure, which, of course, also depends on matchups, should get the minutes.  I also agree with the point of view that it doesn't matter who starts...it is who finishes in close games who makes the difference. 

When Perk gets back, I don't see it as winning his job back...they are not going to trade him or cut him...I see it as Perk getting his timing and spacing back with the team play, fitting in with new team mates.  This  team is not the same team Perk played with last year (except for the starters) and he has Never played with some of them...takes time actual game time to learn tendencies.

[BballTim]

You guys have lost me, but to go back to the beginning, I agree with Greenfaith.  I don't care who starts as long as the team timing and flow are not disrupted...who ever is playing within the "team" structure, which, of course, also depends on matchups, should get the minutes.  I also agree with the point of view that it doesn't matter who starts...it is who finishes in close games who makes the difference. 

When Perk gets back, I don't see it as winning his job back...they are not going to trade him or cut him...I see it as Perk getting his timing and spacing back with the team play, fitting in with new team mates.  This  team is not the same team Perk played with last year (except for the starters) and he has Never played with some of them...takes time actual game time to learn tendencies.

  The only players he hasn't played with are JO and Wafer, right?