Author Topic: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors  (Read 8616 times)

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Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 09:19:52 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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This game happen'd earlier enough in the season to give them a wakeup call...a game aganist the Toronto Raptors should never have been that close in the fourth.
Should it have been that close, no.

But to say never ignores that throughout NBA history historically great teams have lost to pretty bad ones with some frequency. Meanwhile while the C's look to be a top contending team this year, we're not a historically great team.

I said this before, I don't see all that much difference between the last two losses and the OT games we pulled out.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2010, 10:50:17 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Answer:

Keep Delonte West in.
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2010, 12:17:16 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Hey sweet. Another blame the refs thread, exactly what we needed on this board.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2010, 12:20:25 PM »

Offline incoherent

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Hey sweet. Another blame the refs thread, exactly what we needed on this board.

It's not like I'm blaming the refs for screwing up some random play or plays.

This is a very specific type of play that happens nightly in the NBA.  For it to be botched is far greater a mistake then most other calls.  

And I didn't see any other threads pointing out this play, so dont bother posting on this thread again if it upsets you so much.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2010, 01:41:26 PM »

Offline MetroGlobe

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Hey sweet. Another blame the refs thread, exactly what we needed on this board.

It's not like I'm blaming the refs for screwing up some random play or plays.

This is a very specific type of play that happens nightly in the NBA.  For it to be botched is far greater a mistake then most other calls.  

And I didn't see any other threads pointing out this play, so dont bother posting on this thread again if it upsets you so much.


I agree 100%.  It was very clear to me that Calderon was trying to intentionally foul Ray.  I rewound it on the DVR too.  He absolutely hacked him, and the refs missed it.  Whoever said they weren't trying to foul him, and would wait til he crossed half court is nuts.  That could waste another 8 seconds.  No team would do that.  They always foul immediately, which is was Calderon did here.

The refs blew it, plain and simple.  It's just as bad as when they fouled out Shaq when he only had 5 fouls against Atlanta last year.  They ended up replaying the final minutes of that game to rectify it.  That's what should happen here, too.  Of course it never will, but it absolutely should.  These refs will be demoted for their horrendous calls yesterday.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 01:51:20 PM »

Offline celtics2

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Who cares how the game played, the refs literally handed them the game with this non call.

I'm pretty much exactly on the other side of this perspective.

Who cares how the game is played?  I care because 9 times out of 10 we'll get that call, but if we don't play better than we've been playing then we put ourselves in the position to leave the game in the hands of the officials.

I definitely see this point of view.

The problem is that so far this season we have had what... 3 OTs.. multiple other very close games.

Chances are we are going to be in many many more down to the wire games. 

Regardless of whos court you are on or how the game is played, when the team who is winning by 1 has the ball and the other team fouls you, it needs to be called 10 out of 10 times.  9 out of 10 times on that particular play means the refs are blowing 1 out of 10 games.. that is not acceptable.



the nba is a 5 minute game, the last 5. We miss Rondo. I'm a little tired of the old dude stuff now. The big 3 worked the first and third year but now we are pushing our luck. Lots of pressure on Rondo keeping these guys interested.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 01:54:59 PM »

Offline Chris

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Who cares how the game played, the refs literally handed them the game with this non call.

I'm pretty much exactly on the other side of this perspective.

Who cares how the game is played?  I care because 9 times out of 10 we'll get that call, but if we don't play better than we've been playing then we put ourselves in the position to leave the game in the hands of the officials.

Agree completely.  While it is tough for fans to admit, the ref's incompetence almost always evens out.  Sometimes you are going to have a bad call going your way at a crucial time, other times it will be the other way around.  But championship teams should not be worrying about that sort of thing.  Particularly against a team significantly less talented like the Raptors, they need to be focused in so if the coin comes up tails at the wrong time, it won't matter because they won the game with their play.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2010, 02:45:15 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Who cares how the game played, the refs literally handed them the game with this non call.

I'm pretty much exactly on the other side of this perspective.

Who cares how the game is played?  I care because 9 times out of 10 we'll get that call, but if we don't play better than we've been playing then we put ourselves in the position to leave the game in the hands of the officials.

Agree completely.  While it is tough for fans to admit, the ref's incompetence almost always evens out.  Sometimes you are going to have a bad call going your way at a crucial time, other times it will be the other way around.  But championship teams should not be worrying about that sort of thing.  Particularly against a team significantly less talented like the Raptors, they need to be focused in so if the coin comes up tails at the wrong time, it won't matter because they won the game with their play.

Sometimes the truth hurts Chris! ;)

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2010, 05:39:56 PM »

Offline Megatron

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Who cares about the Ray Allen turnover.

With 13 seconds left in the game, the Celtics allowed Weems to get to the hoop for an uncontested layup.

I repeat. with 13 seconds left, the celtics allowed an uncontested layup.

"We hang our hats on defense"

What a joke. They deserved to lose this game.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2010, 07:02:10 PM »

Offline 2short

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In watching more than just the celtics this year (nba tv) I do believe without a doubt that the refs in the nba are HORRIBLE.  There are so many bad, and blantant bad calls that the whole thing should be invistigated.  I can't tell if its because I'm a life long c's fan that I think the refs are worse for our games.  I believe they are but who knows.
If Stern or ref head doesn't replay bad calls to the refs than that is something that should be looked at.  Again being a former soccer player, this sort of stuff just wouldn't work.  A bad ref is demoted to a lower league.

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 07:07:17 PM »

Offline Weird Facts

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I hate the excuse of - well if we played better if never would have gotten to that point.  QUIET - stop making this argument.  We played bad sure- but we should have won the game (literally)

This wasn't a close 50/50 call one way or the other.

It was pretty obvious BARBOSA hit Ray Allen on the elbow.
Everyone saw it on the live play - then the replay proved it further.

If the referee can't get an obvious call like that correct when it ultimately determined the outcome of the game.  Then they should not be an NBA REFEREE.  End of story.

Regardless of how bad we played - it doesn't matter.  In the end we lost the game because of the wrong call.  

If this were the NFL & they called an incomplete pass a touchdown people would be irrate at the officials - REGARDLESS of whether or not the losing team played bad good or anything in between.

In the end - if the officials screw up on that level.  Its absolute garbage.  THEY TURNED A W into an L.

Thats the bottom line in the end.
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Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2010, 10:16:01 PM »

Offline LilRip

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why didn't the Celtics call timeout? didn't they have 2 timeouts?? just get the clock under 8 seconds so we don't have to worry about the Raptors going for the steal. Timeout should've been called.

but yeah, that was a foul on barbosa. ray allen should've gone to the line. but a timeout should've been called after allowing that layup.
- LilRip

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 06:59:39 PM »

Offline FLCeltsFan

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Not sure if you saw this in the links but it is hilarious.  It was on Forum Blue and Gold and that's why it has a slight Laker slant.  It explains all about technical fouls and why refs make some of the terrible calls. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBcA__h_tYE&feature=player_embedded

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 07:38:24 PM »

Offline incoherent

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Not sure if you saw this in the links but it is hilarious.  It was on Forum Blue and Gold and that's why it has a slight Laker slant.  It explains all about technical fouls and why refs make some of the terrible calls. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBcA__h_tYE&feature=player_embedded

great post FLCelts... hilarious video

Re: The final couple plays in the loss to the raptors
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 08:01:30 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I hate the excuse of - well if we played better if never would have gotten to that point.  QUIET - stop making this argument.  We played bad sure- but we should have won the game (literally)

This wasn't a close 50/50 call one way or the other.

It was pretty obvious BARBOSA hit Ray Allen on the elbow.
Everyone saw it on the live play - then the replay proved it further.

If the referee can't get an obvious call like that correct when it ultimately determined the outcome of the game.  Then they should not be an NBA REFEREE.  End of story.

Regardless of how bad we played - it doesn't matter.  In the end we lost the game because of the wrong call.  

If this were the NFL & they called an incomplete pass a touchdown people would be irrate at the officials - REGARDLESS of whether or not the losing team played bad good or anything in between.

In the end - if the officials screw up on that level.  Its absolute garbage.  THEY TURNED A W into an L.

Thats the bottom line in the end.
It obviously isn't an obvious call in real time because calls like that are missed all the time at all levels. The human brain only focuses on a narrow area of our field of vision. This is why as a player, it is often worth it to risk the foul call since the ref might not get a clear look at the play. Especially on a quick swipe like that.

Of course, these things are obvious to a fan who knows in their heart what must have happened, even before getting a good look.

The incomplete pass/touchdown example is no good because that is a play that can be reviewed due to the regular stoppage of play in football. More importantly, it is also a bad example because there aren't many touchdowns actually scored in a football game. People are dribbling the ball for half of the 48 minutes in a game.

I love Mike Gorman, but one of the dumbest Mike Gorman moments I've seen was when he was complaining about the delay due to the review of a play. You either define a call reviewable or you don't. You can't contextualize your opinion of the review based on a replay you already saw but the refs haven't. But the incident points out why basketball can only limited play reviews. There is just too much going on and the game isn't punctuated with 40 second huddles like football is. But not using replay at certain moments means accepting the limitations of human perception.

(The other nonsensical thing Gorman repeatedly complains about is concerning stopping play on 24 second violations. Hello? They have to call it unless it is clear that the defending team got possession. What if they don't secure the rebound, but instead lose the ball out of bounds? The team that should have had the 24 second violation would get the ball with a fresh clock. Or what happens if it looks like the defense might get the board, but then the offense gets it after the 24 second call was ignored?

The refs have to decide when the buzzer goes off whether or not the defense got possession of the ball such that the shot clock can be reset. If the clock is reset, the team that was defending they will face the repercussions of never actually gaining possession, which would be ridiculous. Someone needs to explain this to him. Still, Gorman is one of the best.)