C's NOT a better rebounding team this year

[Arok325]

Ok, let's clear something up. The Celtics are NOT a better rebound team this year than last. All this talk about them improving on the boards has been short lived. Here's the proof:

Last year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2009

vs.

This year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2010

Last year the Celtics were the second worst rebounding team in the league with 38.6 boards per game. Rebounding continued to be an issue for them in the playoffs especially against the Lakers who happened to be the second best rebound team in the league.

And this year...not much is different. Celtics are 4th worst in the league! Just ahead of Cleveland, Detroit and Washington. All this talk about them being a better rebound team this year has been short lived. They're still the same group of guys as last year. The only guy who's made significant leaps has been KG and I'm concerned that at his age and after his past injuries he won't be able to keep this up for the 82 game season.

The problem is that the Lakers are once again the second best rebounding team in the league (Just behind the Twolves).

Now, I understand two arguments against my point. 1) the Twolves are the best rebounding team and they are one of the worst teams. Rebound must not matter much right? Wrong! Rebounding gets exposed in the playoffs. The good teams that rebound the ball well are going to give us fits. 2) We haven't had a healthy Shaq, Jermaine or Perk yet so we obviously will be better come April. I'm not so sure about this as I don't think any of these guys are going to be 100% come playoff time. Perk will just be working his way back into the rotation, Shaq will be useful in limited minutes and Jermaine...well who knows if hes going to require surgery or if he will be any better than he was in the playoffs last year.

I don't know guys but it seams to me that the only reason we're playing well right now is due to Rondo...and I think it's doubtful he's going to keep up this pace. I expect the C's to slowdown a lot come the second half of the season this year....

[Cman]

On the other hand, the Cs are making more of their shots (FG% is up, as is FT%), so there are fewer rebounds to get....

[Roy H.]

For what it's worth, the Celtics are 3rd in the NBA in terms of defensive rebound rate:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html

Their offensive rebound rate is terrible, though, at 29th in the NBA.

For comparison, the Celtics were 12th in defensive rebounding last year, and 28th in offensive rebounding rate.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html

In terms of overall rebounding rate, we're 15th this year, as opposed to 25th last year:

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/reboundRate

In other words, our overall rebounding isn't a huge strength, but the Celts have been a very good defensive rebounding team and have improved over last year.

(You need to look at rate stats, rather than at raw numbers, to account for things like pace, etc.)

[nba is the worst]

Three things:

Look at rebounding margin, the Celtics are 16th (falling from 10th after last night's WIN).

KG is averaging over 10 rpg - clearly the Celtics' rebounding can only be helped by that.

Of course, injuries have played a key role as well, with Perk out, and Shaq/JO splitting unavailability...

[pearljammer10]

Why do people continually post all these negative threads when the team is playing so well over the first ten games?

"All the negativity thats in the board sucks"

[Greenbean]

Roy is right. What matters is the percentage of rebounds they grab that are available. They will never lead the league in total rebounds because in the games they play, there are less shots put up than in Lakers games.

I will never mind if the team does not grab a bunch of offensive boards if that means they are getting back on D which I think they are. Last year they allowed too many offensive boards and that was what ended up getting exposed in game 7 of the playoffs last year. I think they have shored that up rather nicely.

[Greenbean]

It's interesting that the Lakers are close to last in DRB% so far (9th last year) so maybe they will be the ones exposed in this years playoffs!

[jdpapa3]

Roy is correct: raw rebounds per game should be an extinct statistic at this point. I also think that attempts at offensive rebounding may be detrimental to our particular team because of our age and ability to return to defense.

[Jon]

I think this is primarily the result of the fact that the Baby/KG lineup has far and away gotten the most minutes out of any of our big lineups.  Once JO (who might be the best rebounder on the team) and Perk are back, it should get better.  

And I'd argue that Shaq's presence inside (rebounds or not) could be the difference between the loss to the Lakers last year and a win this year.  

While Shaq doesn't provide the defense that Perk does, his finishing skills are absolutely phenomenal.  While I love Perk and can't wait for him to get back, the guy perpetually misses easy shots down low because he pump fakes and dribbles until the defense collapses on him.  Shaq, on the other hand, always finishes with authority.  And had we had that last year, banner #18 would already be hanging in the rafters.  

[snively]

Rondo, Pierce, KG, Shaq and Daniels have all been above average on the boards.  KG's rejuvenation on the boards is of special note.  He's at his highest rebound rate since his last season in Minny. 

Such sterling board work has been undermined a bit by JO's and, especially, Baby's struggles on the boards.  Baby's offensive rebounding rate is less than half of what it was last year and he's still weak on the defensive boards.  Ray Allen's weakness on the boards isn't helping much either.

The eventual/potential return of Perk and JO to health could elevate us to the best defensive rebounding team in the league.

[Fafnir]

Ok, let's clear something up. The Celtics are NOT a better rebound team this year than last. All this talk about them improving on the boards has been short lived. Here's the proof:

Last year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2009

vs.

This year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2010

Last year the Celtics were the second worst rebounding team in the league with 38.6 boards per game. Rebounding continued to be an issue for them in the playoffs especially against the Lakers who happened to be the second best rebound team in the league.

Roy covered the rate statistics pretty well. I like to look at rebound differential too.

Rebound Differential:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1#top

Last year the C's were 25th in rebound rate and had a differential of -1.5

This year the C's are 15th in rebound rate and have a differential of +.3

Frankly our rebounding problems are mostly tied to the limited minutes of the O'Neals. Glen Davis is not giving us enough rebounding out of the 30 or so minutes a game he gets at the PF/C.

If Shaq can give us 20 minutes a game and Jermaine can do the same our rebounding should be in the upper third of the league. Once we have Perkins back we should be even better.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Okay, here is my slant....attempts at offensive rebounds aren't EVER a bad idea....someone like BBD or MD SHOULD be all over them ( LASME )....with pp, ray and kg taking all those shots, there are plenty of nice rebounds there for the taking....lazy guys don't position them selves for rebounds....look at zach randolph last night...THAT is a rebounder....all offensive ones... ( Camby?)  i saw kg shoot 5 from the corner or 45 degree angle....any player knows, go to the long side when the shot is up...that is where it is going...bbd was on the floor..never moved to the spot once...that indicates, no desire, no knowledge, or out of shape.....

  I don't want our stars doing it....this is also why doc is weak...in this sector...he doesn't see the need for rebounds...and doesn't keep the guy who is willing to do it......powe, sheldon lasme....all had one thought..."rebounds is MY job!"...all gone.
 
    Wait till Atlanta and the Lekers come around....Milw already got us on the boards, Memp did too...don't give me stats...watch the game..a few good rebounds on the O end can change the momentum..and make a team feel tired and ineffective....younger teams thrive off of momentum.

 Sure we are doing decent..but beating avg teams in overtime is letting those types in..don't be fooled by 10 games.....You have to be HEALTHY come playoff time....it is a long season of gladiator fighting every night ( game)..see kg get floored last night, rondo get slammed every night.....injuries are already a problem..where is oneal...jo...?  play gody or dump him....get lasme if you aren't going to play gody..lasme was nba ready to rebound, which will get the other team tired and in foul trouble....none of the O rebounds are ever contested here..1/3 of the other teams are.....better think about it.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Ok, let's clear something up. The Celtics are NOT a better rebound team this year than last. All this talk about them improving on the boards has been short lived. Here's the proof:

Last year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2009

vs.

This year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=team&sort=233&conference=NBA&year=season_2010

Last year the Celtics were the second worst rebounding team in the league with 38.6 boards per game. Rebounding continued to be an issue for them in the playoffs especially against the Lakers who happened to be the second best rebound team in the league.

Roy covered the rate statistics pretty well. I like to look at rebound differential too.

Rebound Differential:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1#top

Last year the C's were 25th in rebound rate and had a differential of -1.5

This year the C's are 15th in rebound rate and have a differential of +.3

Frankly our rebounding problems are mostly tied to the limited minutes of the O'Neals. Glen Davis is not giving us enough rebounding out of the 30 or so minutes a game he gets at the PF/C.

If Shaq can give us 20 minutes a game and Jermaine can do the same our rebounding should be in the upper third of the league. Once we have Perkins back we should be even better.

i agree with bbd not doing it like he should, JO...if he was in could..perk......i don't think he will do anything this year....knee......banging and rebounding...think kg and TA...folks are rightly cautious when they come back...the knee will say  "hey dude...better be careful....!"  The body only warns you once....some learn to listen.

[greenpride32]

If you look at rebounding differential, the C's are in the middle of the pack in the league.  And are actually slightly on the positive side.  Last year their differential was negative and they were 25th overall. 

So I'd have to say they are better with the additions of SON and JON.  Just imagine if they were both healthy through the first 10 games.  Assuming they do get healthly the numbers are going to only get better.  The C's grab 38 boards a game and the oppenent grabs 37, not a big deal.

 

[Steve Weinman]

The presentation of team rebounds per game as an indicator as anything except for perhaps missed FGAs and pace confuses me.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't actually support it in those instances either, but I guess those two perspectives are at least conceivable to me (even if simply looking at missed FGAs and pace would also provide you with data on missed FGAs and pace).

-sw