"We're the best 5-4 team in the league,"

[fairweatherfan]

Apparently that's where we are...the completely number-driven, non-subjective formula that hasn't changed in a couple years is somehow biased specifically toward this year's Heat to serve the network's agenda. 

Seriously, the rankings aren't very good with a small sample, but a quick glance at the formula explains why Miami's on top - the formula favors margin of victory and strength of schedule, and doesn't care about W-L.  Heat have a high margin of victory, and they've played a tough schedule (us twice, Orlando, New Orleans, Utah).  No conspiracy, they just have a profile that works very well with the criteria of the rankings.

Problem with this is formula is you even if you lose to the tough team (they only beat Orlando in that group) you are ranked high.

I agree - the formula works ok when teams have a decent number of games under their belts, but it leads to wacky results like this early in the year.  Same reason why they don't publish the BCS standings til Week 7 or so - the results have too much noise before then. 

ESPN shouldn't break out Hollinger's rankings until at least Thanksgiving, because the flaws of the formula are much larger when teams haven't played many games.  Publishing this early is undermining the rankings' credibility.

[housecall]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

[Roy H.]

Apparently that's where we are...the completely number-driven, non-subjective formula that hasn't changed in a couple years is somehow biased specifically toward this year's Heat to serve the network's agenda.  

Seriously, the rankings aren't very good with a small sample, but a quick glance at the formula explains why Miami's on top - the formula favors margin of victory and strength of schedule, and doesn't care about W-L.  Heat have a high margin of victory, and they've played a tough schedule (us twice, Orlando, New Orleans, Utah).  No conspiracy, they just have a profile that works very well with the criteria of the rankings.

Problem with this is formula is you even if you lose to the tough team (they only beat Orlando in that group) you are ranked high.

I agree - the formula works ok when teams have a decent number of games under their belts, but it leads to wacky results like this early in the year.  Same reason why they don't publish the BCS standings til Week 7 or so - the results have too much noise before then.  

ESPN shouldn't break out Hollinger's rankings until at least Thanksgiving, because the flaws of the formula are much larger when teams haven't played many games.  Publishing this early is undermining the rankings' credibility.

Speaking of whacky results, the 1-6 Rockets are 12th, and the 6-1 Spurs are 13th.  I agree, the rankings are pretty useless at this point.  

The problem I have is when Hollinger tries to apply his numbers and makes silly arguments.  For instance, last year he used his rankings to argue that the Nets were better than the Twolves, despite Minnesota having several more wins and beating the Nets head-to-head both time they played.  It's the insistence that his numbers are worth more than what common sense and our eyes tell us that frustrates Hollinger detractors.

[Fafnir]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

I watched the entire game. I saw a game that the Lakers played undiscplined ball late and it cost them. Apparently you saw it differently.

As an aside, one of the quickest ways to lose my respect and frankly set me off is to attack my argument with "Did you watch the game".

Its flip and doesn't address my argument. Instead its dangerously close to, "you're so wrong you obviously are ignorant and didn't watch the game".

Oh and dismiss Bobby Cox if you want, but he's right. A coach can make all of the right decisions, call up the right set, and put the players in position to win. That doesn't mean they'll make the big shots.

[housecall]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

I watched the entire game. I saw a game that the Lakers played undiscplined ball late and it cost them. Apparently you saw it differently.

As an aside, one of the quickest ways to lose my respect and frankly set me off is to attack my argument with "Did you watch the game".

Its flip and doesn't address my argument. Instead its dangerously close to, "you're so wrong you obviously are ignorant and didn't watch the game".

Oh and dismiss Bobby Cox if you want, but he's right. A coach can make all of the right decisions, call up the right set, and put the players in position to win. That doesn't mean they'll make the big shots.

Global Moderator you are  and calling me names...aren't you crossing the line of the rules of CB?

[Fafnir]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

I watched the entire game. I saw a game that the Lakers played undiscplined ball late and it cost them. Apparently you saw it differently.

As an aside, one of the quickest ways to lose my respect and frankly set me off is to attack my argument with "Did you watch the game".

Its flip and doesn't address my argument. Instead its dangerously close to, "you're so wrong you obviously are ignorant and didn't watch the game".

Oh and dismiss Bobby Cox if you want, but he's right. A coach can make all of the right decisions, call up the right set, and put the players in position to win. That doesn't mean they'll make the big shots.

Global Moderator you are  and calling me names...aren't you crossing the line of the rules of CB?

I didn't call you anything, I was stating how I read flip statements such as this:

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any

Instead of addressing what I've said you insinuate that I didn't watch the game. Those sort of cheap shots anger me.

[housecall]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

I watched the entire game. I saw a game that the Lakers played undiscplined ball late and it cost them. Apparently you saw it differently.

As an aside, one of the quickest ways to lose my respect and frankly set me off is to attack my argument with "Did you watch the game".

Its flip and doesn't address my argument. Instead its dangerously close to, "you're so wrong you obviously are ignorant and didn't watch the game".

Oh and dismiss Bobby Cox if you want, but he's right. A coach can make all of the right decisions, call up the right set, and put the players in position to win. That doesn't mean they'll make the big shots.

Global Moderator you are  and calling me names...aren't you crossing the line of the rules of CB?

I didn't call you anything, I was stating how I read flip statements such as this:

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any

Instead of addressing what I've said you insinuate that I didn't watch the game. Those sort of cheap shots anger me.

First off i gave you plenty of time to bring some real facts about that particular game,and you never addressed it.I asked if you watched the game and said IF you didn't then the conversation was wasting time.How is that saying something bad enough to be called names.I do expect you get punished or penalized for it by whomever takes care of those things.If it isn't done then i will know as a CB member just how the system works.  

[Celtics4ever]

Why does anyone with any brain cells place anything ESPN does or rates have actual intellectual merit?   They are:

ENTERTAINMENT
SPORTS
PROGANDA
NETWORK

Not real sports news, those days are gone, these days they feed the stories and don't report the news.  I don't think they are credible.  WWE is more factual at times than ESPN.

[housecall]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any...Bobby Cox,get real lol

I watched the entire game. I saw a game that the Lakers played undiscplined ball late and it cost them. Apparently you saw it differently.

As an aside, one of the quickest ways to lose my respect and frankly set me off is to attack my argument with "Did you watch the game".

Its flip and doesn't address my argument. Instead its dangerously close to, "you're so wrong you obviously are ignorant and didn't watch the game".

Oh and dismiss Bobby Cox if you want, but he's right. A coach can make all of the right decisions, call up the right set, and put the players in position to win. That doesn't mean they'll make the big shots.

Global Moderator you are  and calling me names...aren't you crossing the line of the rules of CB?

I didn't call you anything, I was stating how I read flip statements such as this:

Did you watch the entire Nugget vs Lakers game last night?If not,then this conversation was wasting time.It doesn't sound like you even watched the game by the statements made.Usually when you comment on a subject more facts about the game is important and you don't seem to have any

Instead of addressing what I've said you insinuate that I didn't watch the game. Those sort of cheap shots anger me.

I could easily say things back that will insult you but i don't play those games."Two wrongs never made a right"quote,my mother.

[Roy H.]

Everyone get back on track, please.  At the very least, take it to PMs.

[thirstyboots18]

Beating the NBA champs by 1pt.is worth more than beating anyother team by any amount...what has Orlando won lately?Are you sure they are even real contenders any longer?

I disagree with this, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs only wins matter in the end.

But for the regular season what is more impressive: dominating a contending team (they did make the Finals and ECF the last two years) by a 10 + possession margin, or beating a better team by a two posession margin?

In close games like the Lakers/Nuggets luck plays a huge factor. Does the ball bounce off the rim to Gasol or Melo? Does J.R. Smith hit that deep three or miss it? Fundamentally those are matters of percentages and luck.

Meanwhile all the luck in the world wouldn't have kept Orlando from losing the game in Miami. No random noise effected that outcome.

I like what Bobby Cox said: "Don't confuse favorable outcomes with good decisionms."

On the other hand, intensity and focus by a less talented team trumps a lackluster effort by a more talented team.  In the end, a win is a win.  Is it more important for the Nets to beat the Celtics or for the Celtics to beat Miami?  All depends on which team you are behind, and what they use that win, or loss, for.  Evidently Miami didn't learn much from their loss to Utah, or their loss to the Celtics opening night, for that matter.  Intensity and team spirit do not seem to be on their radar yet.  I would say yes, Denver's win is a better sign than Miami's losses, despite the individual talent on the team.  Quitting is easy but never pretty.

[celticsmaniac18]

so much for 82-0...****

[ACF]

so much for 82-0...****

Hey man, what a cool avatar. I especially love the subtle "18". TP.

[Celtics4ever]

They have talent, deeply flawed, but the drive and will to win is not there.   Its never been there for LeBron either.  Regular season warrior but chump in the playoffs and swept in the finals.  All he cares about is him looking good and being the man, he has not learned what it takes to win.

[JSD]

so much for 82-0...****

Hey man, what a cool avatar. I especially love the subtle "18". TP.

I like the random youtube plug