Players Union plans legal action over new technical foul rules

[The Walker Wiggle]

The NBA players association is planning legal action over the league's decision to issue more technical fouls for complaining.

Billy Hunter, the executive director of the union, said in a statement Thursday that the players weren't consulted about the rules changes, which he called "an unnecessary and unwarranted overreaction" by the league.

"We intend to file an appropriate legal challenge," Hunter said.

*Exaggerated claps, followed by a whistle.*

It's the second time the players have responded to the league's plans to call more techs by threatening legal action. They filed an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board early in the 2006-07 season, when the league's crackdown on griping was referred to as a "zero tolerance policy."

[JSD]

The NBA players association is planning legal action over the league's decision to issue more technical fouls for complaining.

Billy Hunter, the executive director of the union, said in a statement Thursday that the players weren't consulted about the rules changes, which he called "an unnecessary and unwarranted overreaction" by the league.

"We intend to file an appropriate legal challenge," Hunter said.

*Exaggerated claps, followed by a whistle.*

It's the second time the players have responded to the league's plans to call more techs by threatening legal action. They filed an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board early in the 2006-07 season, when the league's crackdown on griping was referred to as a "zero tolerance policy."

I love it. I'd love to see player reaction to fouls similar to the NCAA.

[Q_FBE]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I love it. I'd love to see player reaction to fouls similar to the NCAA.

What's the NCAA's method?

[More Banners]

I'm no lawyer, but it makes sense.  Those T's result in fines, and after 10 or whatever result in suspensions, which are unpaid.  That's an employment contract issue, and consequently a union issue.

"The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains...Working men of all countries, unite!"

[guava_wrench]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

[crownsy]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

Right, but it's arguable that a rule that includes penalties for Clapping in a sarcastic manner might not meet the reasonableness standard.

Seriously, the new rules actually lay out laughing and sarcastic clapping as T'able offense.

What is this, 8th grade study hall?

The NBA also seems to fail to realize that by eliminating all power to the players to police the game themselves through physical play or any kind post palace incident, they have set up a environment where the people making the very subjective calls (refs) are seen as unfair by the players on almost any call.

Less interaction will not eliminate that frustration.

[Tai]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

What is this, 8th grade study hall?

Shh, no talking. Students are trying to study...I mean play ball...I mean...QUIET ALREADY! 

[guava_wrench]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

Right, but it's arguable that a rule that includes penalties for Clapping in a sarcastic manner might not meet the reasonableness standard.

Seriously, the new rules actually lay out laughing and sarcastic clapping as T'able offense.

What is this, 8th grade study hall?

The NBA also seems to fail to realize that by eliminating all power to the players to police the game themselves through physical play or any kind post palace incident, they have set up a environment where the people making the very subjective calls (refs) are seen as unfair by the players on almost any call.

Less interaction will not eliminate that frustration.

More interaction isn't doing anything to help either. Players are accustomed to complaining about everything. Do you think they were all doing that in high school when the refs were far worse?

Players disagree with so many calls because they are playing basketball. When you play basketball, you have a huge bias were you understand the action the way you want to. So we have two problem: (1) refs that will unavoidably never be close to perfect and (2) players who argue not because calls are bad, but because calls are against them. The calls on #2 are the ones many here are so quick to notice when it is a player they don't like, but conveniently don't notice when it is their team.

Complaining about calls has become so regular that it barely matters whether or not a call was good -- the complaining is coming.

There are plenty of useful things that need to be communicated to refs by players and coaches, such as alerting the refs to look out for defenders holding players who are running around picks. I would agree with any critiques that criticize the league for banning such communications. But what we regularly have is the pointless 'are you kidding me' or mocking clap which goes nowhere.

We have players like Perk who complain automatically, only to find out that the call wasn't even against him, or to see in replay the call against him was actually good. Of course there are some bad calls against him, but he has lost the ability to keep himself composed and it has become a bit bizarre. I mean, really, jump up and down complaining when the ref didn't actually even call anything against you?

I do not agree with fans who say that players should get the benefit of the doubt from refs because the players are so intense when they play, but the refs shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt despite being mocked and yelled at by players (and their fans) all game whenever fouls or other violations are called.

Fans all over the world like blaming refs when their teams lose or when their team is having a tough time in a game. People who want to replace the refs remind me of populists who want to switch everyone in Washington, only to find that 4 years later, they also want to get rid of all the replacements. I am fine with the league telling the players to not feed the hysteria.

That is the core problem. A non-problem is becoming a hysteria, and the players are helping to fan the flames through their behavior. Then look at interviews with Perk. Perk seems quite fine with the refs in interviews. He just no longer has discipline on the court, though he once did.

[gift]

it finally struck me yesterday (and maybe i'm late to the party on this one), that maybe the league set this up to be the first domino to fall in the new cba negotiations.

it seems absurd otherwise, but maybe this move allows them to give up something they really weren't expecting in the first place to start the concessions on the other side?

[wiley]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

Right, but it's arguable that a rule that includes penalties for Clapping in a sarcastic manner might not meet the reasonableness standard.

Seriously, the new rules actually lay out laughing and sarcastic clapping as T'able offense.

What is this, 8th grade study hall?

The NBA also seems to fail to realize that by eliminating all power to the players to police the game themselves through physical play or any kind post palace incident, they have set up a environment where the people making the very subjective calls (refs) are seen as unfair by the players on almost any call.

Less interaction will not eliminate that frustration.

More interaction isn't doing anything to help either. Players are accustomed to complaining about everything. Do you think they were all doing that in high school when the refs were far worse?

Players disagree with so many calls because they are playing basketball. When you play basketball, you have a huge bias were you understand the action the way you want to. So we have two problem: (1) refs that will unavoidably never be close to perfect and (2) players who argue not because calls are bad, but because calls are against them. The calls on #2 are the ones many here are so quick to notice when it is a player they don't like, but conveniently don't notice when it is their team.

Complaining about calls has become so regular that it barely matters whether or not a call was good -- the complaining is coming.

There are plenty of useful things that need to be communicated to refs by players and coaches, such as alerting the refs to look out for defenders holding players who are running around picks. I would agree with any critiques that criticize the league for banning such communications. But what we regularly have is the pointless 'are you kidding me' or mocking clap which goes nowhere.

We have players like Perk who complain automatically, only to find out that the call wasn't even against him, or to see in replay the call against him was actually good. Of course there are some bad calls against him, but he has lost the ability to keep himself composed and it has become a bit bizarre. I mean, really, jump up and down complaining when the ref didn't actually even call anything against you?

I do not agree with fans who say that players should get the benefit of the doubt from refs because the players are so intense when they play, but the refs shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt despite being mocked and yelled at by players (and their fans) all game whenever fouls or other violations are called.

Fans all over the world like blaming refs when their teams lose or when their team is having a tough time in a game. People who want to replace the refs remind me of populists who want to switch everyone in Washington, only to find that 4 years later, they also want to get rid of all the replacements. I am fine with the league telling the players to not feed the hysteria.

That is the core problem. A non-problem is becoming a hysteria, and the players are helping to fan the flames through their behavior. Then look at interviews with Perk. Perk seems quite fine with the refs in interviews. He just no longer has discipline on the court, though he once did.

Guava, I agree the complaining is excessive and makes the game less enjoyable, right along with the too-high number of whistles/stoppages.  Both are a problem.

But any new rule needs to be intelligent, clear, and easy to enforce.  This rule is the opposite.

Regarding the trend towards more complaining.  I look at our society in general.  It is trending towards excessive on so many levels.  I've heard of university professors leaving their jobs because students these days have become so incredibly entitled.  Lines of respect are being broken on all levels of society.  And I personally have a problem with the entertainment industry. I have to choose movies very carefully these days.  The volume is too high and the sound and visuals so high-tech, a guy has a heart attack in a movie and you can hear the [dang] thing inside your brain.  That's just me though.  I understand that a lot of people want to hear and feel everything--the race towards virtuality.  And cable t.v.'s sole mission is to push the limit in terms of foul language.  It's all about shock.  Shock is a value in this culture.  A VALUE!  I hate it.  Let's not even go into politics.

I look at player complaining in this light.  Everyone wants their own show, and complaining is a part of that.  Unfortunately, the refs want their own show too.  And the show just got bigger and louder.

[Hila]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

True, an employer can expect reasonable behavior from its employees.

What an employer can't do is make a unilateral change as to what constitutes "reasonable" when its employees are unionized and covered by a collective-bargaining agreement.  Terms and conditions of employment are a mandatory subject of bargaining... and since techs affect employees' wages and hours, the major change in what it takes to get a tech qualifies as terms and conditions.

I don't know what kind of legal action the players' association is thinking of taking, but it definitely seems like they have grounds to allege a violation of 8(a)(5) of the National Labor Relations Act, at least. 

[Junkyard Dawg]

I look at player complaining in this light.  Everyone wants their own show, and complaining is a part of that.  Unfortunately, the refs want their own show too.  And the show just got bigger and louder.

I see it more as the refs want their own show.  They're the ones making the calls!  And I disagree that it's gotten out of hand with basketball players protesting every call against them, it's really only a few players who do this... and yeah they don't help themselves (perk) by protesting every call, but once they get that reputation as a protester it's like they're condemned for life!  Refs can call anything and everything and people will just shrug it off because of the reputation that player has...

refereeing in the nba is a mess, admittedly it's a tough job but I can't believe the answer is to call more T's as they're doing now.  players were getting ridiculous T's last year (most of them by a small handful of refs!) now they're going to make EVERY ref do this?

[ACF]

I look at player complaining in this light.  Everyone wants their own show, and complaining is a part of that.  Unfortunately, the refs want their own show too.  And the show just got bigger and louder.

I see it more as the refs want their own show.  They're the ones making the calls! 

Well, again we can blame Stern. He's the one that is putting so much power in their hands. I am truly looking forward to the day he won't be the boss anymore. That "It's what the fanbase wants" talk is some of the dumbest (expletive) Stern's ever muttered. Jeesh.

[guava_wrench]

And who has time to listen to the players union arguing over the overbearing officials who call the techical fouls?

I agree that this is ludicrous and the referrees will not keep up the technical foul charades. That will make the game unwatchable not knowing who will be playing due to league suspensions.

The players are a lot more overbearing than the refs.

Smart move by the union due to the fines, though it is well within the rights of an employer to expect reasonable behavior by employees.

Right, but it's arguable that a rule that includes penalties for Clapping in a sarcastic manner might not meet the reasonableness standard.

Seriously, the new rules actually lay out laughing and sarcastic clapping as T'able offense.

What is this, 8th grade study hall?

The NBA also seems to fail to realize that by eliminating all power to the players to police the game themselves through physical play or any kind post palace incident, they have set up a environment where the people making the very subjective calls (refs) are seen as unfair by the players on almost any call.

Less interaction will not eliminate that frustration.

More interaction isn't doing anything to help either. Players are accustomed to complaining about everything. Do you think they were all doing that in high school when the refs were far worse?

Players disagree with so many calls because they are playing basketball. When you play basketball, you have a huge bias were you understand the action the way you want to. So we have two problem: (1) refs that will unavoidably never be close to perfect and (2) players who argue not because calls are bad, but because calls are against them. The calls on #2 are the ones many here are so quick to notice when it is a player they don't like, but conveniently don't notice when it is their team.

Complaining about calls has become so regular that it barely matters whether or not a call was good -- the complaining is coming.

There are plenty of useful things that need to be communicated to refs by players and coaches, such as alerting the refs to look out for defenders holding players who are running around picks. I would agree with any critiques that criticize the league for banning such communications. But what we regularly have is the pointless 'are you kidding me' or mocking clap which goes nowhere.

We have players like Perk who complain automatically, only to find out that the call wasn't even against him, or to see in replay the call against him was actually good. Of course there are some bad calls against him, but he has lost the ability to keep himself composed and it has become a bit bizarre. I mean, really, jump up and down complaining when the ref didn't actually even call anything against you?

I do not agree with fans who say that players should get the benefit of the doubt from refs because the players are so intense when they play, but the refs shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt despite being mocked and yelled at by players (and their fans) all game whenever fouls or other violations are called.

Fans all over the world like blaming refs when their teams lose or when their team is having a tough time in a game. People who want to replace the refs remind me of populists who want to switch everyone in Washington, only to find that 4 years later, they also want to get rid of all the replacements. I am fine with the league telling the players to not feed the hysteria.

That is the core problem. A non-problem is becoming a hysteria, and the players are helping to fan the flames through their behavior. Then look at interviews with Perk. Perk seems quite fine with the refs in interviews. He just no longer has discipline on the court, though he once did.

Guava, I agree the complaining is excessive and makes the game less enjoyable, right along with the too-high number of whistles/stoppages.  Both are a problem.

But any new rule needs to be intelligent, clear, and easy to enforce.  This rule is the opposite.

Regarding the trend towards more complaining.  I look at our society in general.  It is trending towards excessive on so many levels.  I've heard of university professors leaving their jobs because students these days have become so incredibly entitled.  Lines of respect are being broken on all levels of society.  And I personally have a problem with the entertainment industry. I have to choose movies very carefully these days.  The volume is too high and the sound and visuals so high-tech, a guy has a heart attack in a movie and you can hear the [dang] thing inside your brain.  That's just me though.  I understand that a lot of people want to hear and feel everything--the race towards virtuality.  And cable t.v.'s sole mission is to push the limit in terms of foul language.  It's all about shock.  Shock is a value in this culture.  A VALUE!  I hate it.  Let's not even go into politics.

I look at player complaining in this light.  Everyone wants their own show, and complaining is a part of that.  Unfortunately, the refs want their own show too.  And the show just got bigger and louder.

I feel the same way. This is another example of a culture trend where authority is not only not respected -- it is openly mocked.

I personally don't view it as either side grandstanding. I'm not sure I see evidence of it being much more than a lack of discipline. I see no evidence of refs trying to be seen as they are completely invisible when off the court. They are guys trying to do a difficult job in a very difficult setting.

I have played in leagues where any complaining is an immediate tech and sometimes even an ejection. I view this as reasonable since everyone should already know coming in that refs will never be perfect and that their own personal perceptions are flawed. It is still OK to talk to refs in such a league, but no complaining or insults are tolerated.

One cultural problem we have is so many people being not only overconfident in the reliability of their perceptions, but an absolutist mentality that doesn't allow many to appreciate the complexity of problems and the often inherent subjectivity in decision making.

The refs are there so that a neutral party can enforce the rules. They are not there to be punching bags. People are not ejected after a single tech because it is understood that players and coaches will get emotional and act beyond the rules at times.

It is funny how many fans react negatively when they see Kobe chewing out a teammate. They consider it in bad taste when players publicly mock one another. Yet they are fine with the same lack of professionalism towards refs.