Rondo will always be our point guard...

[BballTim]

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

  Rondo made more big plays in the 4th quarter of game 2 than Fisher did the entire series. The main reason Derek wasn't an enormous liability was Artest kneeing Ray in the thigh early in game 3.

I think Fisher had a bigger impact too, because they won and they probably wouldn't have won if Fisher didn't take over that one game.

  By that logic Sam Cassell had a bigger impact on that 2008 playoff series vs the Cavs than Lebron because we probably wouldn't have won game 1 if he hadn't played well, and probably would have lost the series. And didn't Eddie House help us win a game in that series?

[Snakehead]

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

  Rondo made more big plays in the 4th quarter of game 2 than Fisher did the entire series. The main reason Derek wasn't an enormous liability was Artest kneeing Ray in the thigh early in game 3.

I think Fisher had a bigger impact too, because they won and they probably wouldn't have won if Fisher didn't take over that one game.

  By that logic Sam Cassell had a bigger impact on that 2008 playoff series vs the Cavs than Lebron because we probably wouldn't have won game 1 if he hadn't played well, and probably would have lost the series. And didn't Eddie House help us win a game in that series?

Some people I just can't for the life of me understand.  Derrick Fisher had more impact on the games than Rajon Rondo?  Seriously?

Like Tim points out, making big plays in one game is not a bigger impact.  Rondo made major plays every game... It's like some of you forget that and give a guy more credit who made less plays because you remember his fewer plays in greater clarity. 

[Celtics4ever]

Fischer had his moment but overall the rest of the games he sucked eggs.   But how can you like the guy he is a dirty cheapshot artist.  If he cared about his kid for real would he be playing basketball or spending time with the kid?

[Assassin70]

Greg - you are correct, I did not mention the series that you listed. Rondo was not as effective in those games (MIA, ORL or LA).

Rondo is a Wildcard - no, he doesn't have a mid-range J (Yet), but he is great in everything else.

Do you believe that with the way our team is set up, Rondo even has to carry us (offensively)? That is why I'm not even sure if DWill or CP3 could do better than Rondo (in his place).

Based on last year.  Yes, I do.  This team is constructed to have the offense spread around all over the place, but we need to have a guy that we can count to step up and get us points when we need them, whether it's by jumpshot and creating easy baskets for others.  That guy has got be Rondo.  It doesnt mean he has to average 30 points a game, but yes he HAS to be a factor.  If people leave him open, he HAS to make them pay, whether it's hitting a jumpshot or taking a clear path to the basket.

Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett are past their prime now and can't put a team on their back ALL the time, like they use to.  Rondo is the one now that needs to be able to do that, someway.

Good points, again...Rondo has the keys to the car, now - I hope he is allowed to drive it.

I believe he will, and drive it well. He'll develop that J.

I agree will all above.  But you cant keep giving your son keys to the car if he keeps crashing it.

I think the FT thing is more mental then anything else.  He worked on it last summer and there were glimpses of improvement.

Hopefully he will spend all the rest of his summer putting up that mid range J.  He really only needs that PP ft area jumper.  If Paul can give Rondo that from his game...look out.

[celts55]

There are 3 things I believe Rondo must improve on if he's going to be a top 3 point guard.

1) devolop at least a desent outside shot. Doesn't have to be great when when he's wide open from 18 feet, he should hit it more than miss.

2) Hit his free throws. I don't really get it except it must be in hie head. He shot them very well agains't Miami than went totally south again. He sould be taking like 200-300 a day. It's a real problem when other teams are playing hack-a-Rondo in the 4th quarter.

3) he has to play with a more consistant effort. One game he had Wilt like numbers than the next game he seems totally disinterested. One game he's playing super man on mad defense and the next he's back to the "reach around try to slap the ball from behing lazy D". I try to give him the benefit of the doubt that he played a ton of minutes so perhaps he was tired sometimes, but hopefully Doc will cut back his minutes and he'll play with recluse abandon all the time.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Fafnir]

Top 5 PG of all time???

That's a little early?

Uh yeah.

Magic
Stockton
Payton
Nash
CP3
Williams

are all ahead of him. That's just recent names!

[celts55]

Top 5 PG of all time???

That's a little early?

Uh yeah.

Magic
Stockton
Payton
Nash
CP3
Williams

are all ahead of him. That's just recent names!

Cosey
Oscar Robinson
Isiah
Walt Frazier

Shall we go on?

[Fafnir]

Top 5 PG of all time???

That's a little early?

Uh yeah.

Magic
Stockton
Payton
Nash
CP3
Williams

are all ahead of him. That's just recent names!

Cosey
Oscar Robinson
Isiah
Walt Frazier

Shall we go on?

I think he'll pass Frazier pretty easily.

[Andy Jick]

jason kidd

tiny archibald - i believe he's the only player to EVER lead the NBA in BOTH scoring and assists in the SAME season.

[guava_wrench]

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

  Rondo made more big plays in the 4th quarter of game 2 than Fisher did the entire series. The main reason Derek wasn't an enormous liability was Artest kneeing Ray in the thigh early in game 3.

I think Fisher had a bigger impact too, because they won and they probably wouldn't have won if Fisher didn't take over that one game.

  By that logic Sam Cassell had a bigger impact on that 2008 playoff series vs the Cavs than Lebron because we probably wouldn't have won game 1 if he hadn't played well, and probably would have lost the series. And didn't Eddie House help us win a game in that series?

I never get why people come up with arguments like that. Isn't it obvious that they are opening the door for Adam Morrison being better than Paul Pierce.

It is tough to evaluate players based on a series when every player usually has some bad games. Look at all the bad games Kobe had. Are we expecting too much when we see Rondo disappear for a few games against such a strong team?

[BballTim]

There are 3 things I believe Rondo must improve on if he's going to be a top 3 point guard.

1) devolop at least a desent outside shot. Doesn't have to be great when when he's wide open from 18 feet, he should hit it more than miss.

2) Hit his free throws. I don't really get it except it must be in hie head. He shot them very well agains't Miami than went totally south again. He sould be taking like 200-300 a day. It's a real problem when other teams are playing hack-a-Rondo in the 4th quarter.

3) he has to play with a more consistant effort. One game he had Wilt like numbers than the next game he seems totally disinterested. One game he's playing super man on mad defense and the next he's back to the "reach around try to slap the ball from behing lazy D". I try to give him the benefit of the doubt that he played a ton of minutes so perhaps he was tired sometimes, but hopefully Doc will cut back his minutes and he'll play with recluse abandon all the time.

That's all I have to say about that.

  2-3 years ago Rondo needed to correct those things before he'd ever be considered an above average point guard. That migrated to him needing to fix those flaws before he'd ever be an all-star, and then to things that prevented him from being considered an elite pg. Now it's top 3. He just keeps proving people wrong.

  But, while I disagree with you about his consistency, I'd like to see him improve in his shooting/free throws.

[BballTim]

Top 5 PG of all time???

That's a little early?

Uh yeah.

Magic
Stockton
Payton
Nash
CP3
Williams

are all ahead of him. That's just recent names!

Cosey
Oscar Robinson
Isiah
Walt Frazier

Shall we go on?

  I think it's highly unlikely that Rondo will ever be considered top 5 overall. But I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. In the 09 playoffs he averaged something like 17/9/7/9.8. The only players that have averaged better than 15/9/9 in the playoffs in any year that they played more than 4-5 games besides Rondo are like Kidd, Oscar, Magic  and maybe Wilt.

  He had one of the great all-around playoff games of the last 30 years this year, in a fairly close pivotal game against a title contender. He did something in that game that's never been done in the history of the league, regular season or playoffs. And I think there are only 5-6 players in the history of the league with more playoff triple doubles in their careers than Rondo's had in the last 2 seasons. I think he'll finish higher on the ladder than many here imagine.

[2short]

He is still young and developing.  Will he continue to improve?  That will be the big question on hall of fame or how high he ranks.  MR Richardson looked like Magic for the knicks a bit ago and what did he do?
If rondo continues to improve and plays with dedication he could be a mix of stockton, magic and kidd (topside)
and who's cosey? 
isn't that a blanket / robe sort of thing

[BballTim]

jason kidd

tiny archibald - i believe he's the only player to EVER lead the NBA in BOTH scoring and assists in the SAME season.

  Food for thought, but compare Rondo's early career to some of the greats listed in this thread:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=kiddja01&y1=1998&p2=rondora01&y2=2010&p3=paytoga01&y3=1994&p4=nashst01&y4=2001

  I took the first 4 years for Rondo, Kidd and Payton and the first 5 years for Nash to help even out the minutes. Kidd and Payton both came into the league more polished than Rondo. Both were top 2 picks, both came into the league 1 year older than Rondo and both were immediate starters. Nash was also picked higher. And, since he came into the league older as well, about 2/3 of his minutes listed came when he was older than Rondo at the end of Rondo's 4th year.

  Three of the players listed show up in most top 10 point guards of all time lists. None of them have stats clearly better than Rondo's and all are arguably worse. Rondo has leads in PER and win share per 48 in both the regular season and the playoffs over all of them.

[BballTim]

He is still young and developing.  Will he continue to improve?  That will be the big question on hall of fame or how high he ranks.  MR Richardson looked like Magic for the knicks a bit ago and what did he do?

  Funny, using Richardson and "how high" in the same post. Let's just hope Rondo does a better job of staying clear of the coke than MRR, who was an incredible talent.