Rondo will always be our point guard...

[GreenFaith1819]

I agree with the top3 PG in the NBA right now comment, and also the comment about wanting him to stay a Celtics.

I dont agree that he can carry this team when need be.  Rondo has carried this team before, but there are a ton of nba players that can carry an NBA team when they get into a groove and theyre hot.  But like someone has already said in this thread, there is a difference between having the ability to carry a team, and being able to step up and carry the team when they need it.  Rondo hasnt proven he can do that, if he could, he'd be a two time NBA champ now.

Well, didn't Rondo step up and carry us in the CLE series? Lord knows we needed his production.

All odds were against us....Ray wasn't hitting...Lebron was all over Pierce...

But Rondo was making CLE pay.

Then, CLE tried putting Lebron on Rondo. Rondo then proceeded to get Pierce involved (Game 5), which lead to Pierces' 21 pt, 11 reb, 7 assist game.

He averaged nearly 21 pts, almost 12 assists, over 6 rebs, and 1.6 steals that series.

IMO, Rondo and KG put Boston on their backs that series. Rondo was the main engine, though.

I know that we needed Rondo in the LA series. Yes - a "J" would've helped in the Finals, but Rondo wasn't the only reason we lost to LA.

For all of his flaws, I bet most NBA teams (including LA) would love to have our PG.

[greg683x]

I agree with the top3 PG in the NBA right now comment, and also the comment about wanting him to stay a Celtics.

I dont agree that he can carry this team when need be.  Rondo has carried this team before, but there are a ton of nba players that can carry an NBA team when they get into a groove and theyre hot.  But like someone has already said in this thread, there is a difference between having the ability to carry a team, and being able to step up and carry the team when they need it.  Rondo hasnt proven he can do that, if he could, he'd be a two time NBA champ now.

Well, didn't Rondo step up and carry us in the CLE series? Lord knows we needed his production.

All odds were against us....Ray wasn't hitting...Lebron was all over Pierce...

But Rondo was making CLE pay.

Then, CLE tried putting Lebron on Rondo. Rondo then proceeded to get Pierce involved (Game 5), which lead to Pierces' 21 pt, 11 reb, 7 assist game.

He averaged nearly 21 pts, almost 12 assists, over 6 rebs, and 1.6 steals that series.

IMO, Rondo and KG put Boston on their backs that series. Rondo was the main engine, though.

I know that we needed Rondo in the LA series. Yes - a "J" would've helped in the Finals, but Rondo wasn't the only reason we lost to LA.

For all of his flaws, I bet most NBA teams (including LA) would love to have our PG.

Did I not say in my previous post that Rondo is capable of carrying his team??  I did, didnt I?  All you did was reinforce that he's capable of doing it.

What you left out, was in the NBA Finals against the Lakers, the Rondo vs. Fisher matchup was a big mismatch in our favor, a matchup we greatly needed to exploit to give us a good chance to win.  Rondo needed to create problems for LA, he needed to make Derek Fisher pay for not being able to keep up with his speed, and when Kobe would guard Rondo, Rajon needed to make Kobe pay for trying to roam away from him.  While Rondo did have some good moments in the Finals, I think most would agree that he failed to take advantage of this, and definitely didnt carry the team.

This is the 2nd postseason in a row where Rondo will dominate one series and then disappear in another.  Last year he looked like Oscar Robertson against the Bulls, but then failed to dominate Rafer Alston against the Magic.

No one disagreed that Rondo isnt capable of taking over a game, but can he be relied upon to do it consistently, or when his team needs him too??  I'd say No.

[GreenFaith1819]

Greg - I may have mis-read your post.

Am I correct in reading your post to mean that you did not believe that Rondo could step up and carry a team? When you said that Rondo could not step up and do That? That - meaning carry a team? Or step up and carry a team? 

[GreenFaith1819]

And are you talking about carrying a team as far as scoring? Or other ways (rebounding, assists, defensively etc).

With LA and ORL last season, he was just not as effective with either team's frontlines, especially LA. Gasol and Bynum gave us trouble in that they did not allow Rondo a clear path to the basket.

From what I saw, even CP3 in Green wouldn't have been enough to save us in LA. Yes, CP3 would've hit a few J's, but we just couldn't keep LA off the boards.

I didn't see the series as Rondo unable to take advantage of Fish.

[greg683x]

Greg - I may have mis-read your post.

Am I correct in reading your post to mean that you did not believe that Rondo could step up and carry a team? When you said that Rondo could not step up and do That? That - meaning carry a team? Or step up and carry a team? 

I said there are many players in the NBA that is capable of carrying a team if they get hot and are in the right groove. Rondo is one of those players.  Then there are players that you can always depend on to show up when it comes to the crucial moments, crucials games, and crucial series.  Paul Pierce back in his prime, I feel was one of these players.  Was there times he was unable to succeed?  Of course, but I think more often than not, in his prime, Paul showed up for us.

You gave a great example of how Rajon took over the Cleveland series, and he did.  Rondo was the star of that series.  Like I said, Rajon is capable of carrying this team, and he did against Cleveland.

My point is, do you think Rajon was just as effective against the Heat, Magic, and Lakers?  Because you didnt mention those series, or post any stats from them.  For every series that you can name to me that you feel Rondo carried the team and took over, I can show you at least one, possibly two where he didnt.

14.8 and 10.2 Miami

14.3 and 8  Orlando

13.5 and 7.5 LA Lakers

Those are his averages against those 3 teams, points and assists.  Those arent bad numbers, but theyre certainly not numbers of a player thats carrying his team either.  I also neglected to include his free throw percentage.  In the Finals, which again was a series we badly needed Rajon to step up and carry the team, he put up his worst numbers in the playoffs, and his free throw shooting was so bad it had Jeff Van Gundy saying that if he was Phil Jackson, he would consider the "Hack-a-Rondo" strategy during key moments of the game.

Rondo, in my opinion, just isnt a guy that has deserved that billing yet.  You cant count on him to make shots and score points when you need him too.

[greg683x]

And are you talking about carrying a team as far as scoring? Or other ways (rebounding, assists, defensively etc).

With LA and ORL last season, he was just not as effective with either team's frontlines, especially LA. Gasol and Bynum gave us trouble in that they did not allow Rondo a clear path to the basket.

From what I saw, even CP3 in Green wouldn't have been enough to save us in LA. Yes, CP3 would've hit a few J's, but we just couldn't keep LA off the boards.

I didn't see the series as Rondo unable to take advantage of Fish.

CP3 can keep a defense honest with his jumpshot.  His game isnt soley reliant on being able to drive to the basket for easy buckets.  Thats the difference.  If we had Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant or whoever is guarding him will not be able to roam and be a help defender.

Are you telling me that the fact Kobe Bryant was able to roam off of Rondo and help double team other Ray, Paul, KG, Sheed wasnt a factor??  I certainly remember a series where we were having a lot of problems scoring at times because the lane and paths to the basket were clogged.  Im not saying it was the only problem, but it was one of the big ones.

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

[GreenFaith1819]

Greg - you are correct, I did not mention the series that you listed. Rondo was not as effective in those games (MIA, ORL or LA).

Rondo is a Wildcard - no, he doesn't have a mid-range J (Yet), but he is great in everything else.

Do you believe that with the way our team is set up, Rondo even has to carry us (offensively)? That is why I'm not even sure if DWill or CP3 could do better than Rondo (in his place).

[GreenFaith1819]

And are you talking about carrying a team as far as scoring? Or other ways (rebounding, assists, defensively etc).

With LA and ORL last season, he was just not as effective with either team's frontlines, especially LA. Gasol and Bynum gave us trouble in that they did not allow Rondo a clear path to the basket.

From what I saw, even CP3 in Green wouldn't have been enough to save us in LA. Yes, CP3 would've hit a few J's, but we just couldn't keep LA off the boards.

I didn't see the series as Rondo unable to take advantage of Fish.

CP3 can keep a defense honest with his jumpshot.  His game isnt soley reliant on being able to drive to the basket for easy buckets.  Thats the difference.  If we had Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant or whoever is guarding him will not be able to roam and be a help defender.

Are you telling me that the fact Kobe Bryant was able to roam off of Rondo and help double team other Ray, Paul, KG, Sheed wasnt a factor??  I certainly remember a series where we were having a lot of problems scoring at times because the lane and paths to the basket were clogged.  Im not saying it was the only problem, but it was one of the big ones.

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

Good Points. Fish did make an impact, especially in that game 3. And Kobe did in fact seemed to guard Rondo for stretches - and was able to cheat off of him sometimes.

That was definitely a series where Rondo's J would've helped. But I'm not sure if that alone would've put us over the top.

I'm believing that he'll get better, though.

[greg683x]

Greg - you are correct, I did not mention the series that you listed. Rondo was not as effective in those games (MIA, ORL or LA).

Rondo is a Wildcard - no, he doesn't have a mid-range J (Yet), but he is great in everything else.

Do you believe that with the way our team is set up, Rondo even has to carry us (offensively)? That is why I'm not even sure if DWill or CP3 could do better than Rondo (in his place).

Based on last year.  Yes, I do.  This team is constructed to have the offense spread around all over the place, but we need to have a guy that we can count to step up and get us points when we need them, whether it's by jumpshot and creating easy baskets for others.  That guy has got be Rondo.  It doesnt mean he has to average 30 points a game, but yes he HAS to be a factor.  If people leave him open, he HAS to make them pay, whether it's hitting a jumpshot or taking a clear path to the basket.

Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett are past their prime now and can't put a team on their back ALL the time, like they use to.  Rondo is the one now that needs to be able to do that, someway.

[GreenFaith1819]

Greg - you are correct, I did not mention the series that you listed. Rondo was not as effective in those games (MIA, ORL or LA).

Rondo is a Wildcard - no, he doesn't have a mid-range J (Yet), but he is great in everything else.

Do you believe that with the way our team is set up, Rondo even has to carry us (offensively)? That is why I'm not even sure if DWill or CP3 could do better than Rondo (in his place).

Based on last year.  Yes, I do.  This team is constructed to have the offense spread around all over the place, but we need to have a guy that we can count to step up and get us points when we need them, whether it's by jumpshot and creating easy baskets for others.  That guy has got be Rondo.  It doesnt mean he has to average 30 points a game, but yes he HAS to be a factor.  If people leave him open, he HAS to make them pay, whether it's hitting a jumpshot or taking a clear path to the basket.

Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett are past their prime now and can't put a team on their back ALL the time, like they use to.  Rondo is the one now that needs to be able to do that, someway.

Good points, again...Rondo has the keys to the car, now - I hope he is allowed to drive it.

I believe he will, and drive it well. He'll develop that J.

[BballTim]

I agree with the top3 PG in the NBA right now comment, and also the comment about wanting him to stay a Celtics.

I dont agree that he can carry this team when need be.  Rondo has carried this team before, but there are a ton of nba players that can carry an NBA team when they get into a groove and theyre hot.  But like someone has already said in this thread, there is a difference between having the ability to carry a team, and being able to step up and carry the team when they need it.  Rondo hasnt proven he can do that, if he could, he'd be a two time NBA champ now.

Well, didn't Rondo step up and carry us in the CLE series? Lord knows we needed his production.

All odds were against us....Ray wasn't hitting...Lebron was all over Pierce...

But Rondo was making CLE pay.

Then, CLE tried putting Lebron on Rondo. Rondo then proceeded to get Pierce involved (Game 5), which lead to Pierces' 21 pt, 11 reb, 7 assist game.

He averaged nearly 21 pts, almost 12 assists, over 6 rebs, and 1.6 steals that series.

IMO, Rondo and KG put Boston on their backs that series. Rondo was the main engine, though.

I know that we needed Rondo in the LA series. Yes - a "J" would've helped in the Finals, but Rondo wasn't the only reason we lost to LA.

For all of his flaws, I bet most NBA teams (including LA) would love to have our PG.

Did I not say in my previous post that Rondo is capable of carrying his team??  I did, didnt I?  All you did was reinforce that he's capable of doing it.

What you left out, was in the NBA Finals against the Lakers, the Rondo vs. Fisher matchup was a big mismatch in our favor, a matchup we greatly needed to exploit to give us a good chance to win.  Rondo needed to create problems for LA, he needed to make Derek Fisher pay for not being able to keep up with his speed, and when Kobe would guard Rondo, Rajon needed to make Kobe pay for trying to roam away from him.  While Rondo did have some good moments in the Finals, I think most would agree that he failed to take advantage of this, and definitely didnt carry the team.

This is the 2nd postseason in a row where Rondo will dominate one series and then disappear in another.  Last year he looked like Oscar Robertson against the Bulls, but then failed to dominate Rafer Alston against the Magic.

No one disagreed that Rondo isnt capable of taking over a game, but can he be relied upon to do it consistently, or when his team needs him too??  I'd say No.

  It's worth pointing out that it's to the Celts advantage when Rondo having Kobe guard him leaves Fisher on Ray. It created such a mismatch that Ray was able to tie (or break) the record for three pointers in a game in one half. The problem for the Celts was that Ray went 4-28 on threes the last 5 games.

[BballTim]

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

  Rondo made more big plays in the 4th quarter of game 2 than Fisher did the entire series. The main reason Derek wasn't an enormous liability was Artest kneeing Ray in the thigh early in game 3.

[Bankshot]

If you didnt see the series as Rondo being able to take advantage of Fisher then thats fine, bc most of the time Fisher didnt guard Rondo, he was guarding Ray.  But I do think Fisher had a bigger impact on the series than Rondo did.

  Rondo made more big plays in the 4th quarter of game 2 than Fisher did the entire series. The main reason Derek wasn't an enormous liability was Artest kneeing Ray in the thigh early in game 3.

I think Fisher had a bigger impact too, because they won and they probably wouldn't have won if Fisher didn't take over that one game.

[Chelm]

  It's worth pointing out that it's to the Celts advantage when Rondo having Kobe guard him leaves Fisher on Ray. It created such a mismatch that Ray was able to tie (or break) the record for three pointers in a game in one half. The problem for the Celts was that Ray went 4-28 on threes the last 5 games.

You could also note it a problem that we were relying on one man to hit 3s to win it for us.  Live by the 3...

[BballTim]

  It's worth pointing out that it's to the Celts advantage when Rondo having Kobe guard him leaves Fisher on Ray. It created such a mismatch that Ray was able to tie (or break) the record for three pointers in a game in one half. The problem for the Celts was that Ray went 4-28 on threes the last 5 games.

You could also note it a problem that we were relying on one man to hit 3s to win it for us.  Live by the 3...

  It's not that we were solely relying on Ray to win it for us with threes, it's that we weren't so much better than the Lakers that we could beat them 3 out of 5 with ont of our main scorers playing so poorly.