Pistons Still Shopping Prince, Hamilton

[Rashi]

Pistons have been shopping Rip and Tayshaun for ages, so logjam at SG and SF might not continue to be logjam if deal ever materializes 

http://twitter.com/stein_line_hq



So if Sheed decides to come back, is there any way we can get one of these guys? Maybe Baby + a pick?

[Bankshot]

Pistons have been shopping Rip and Tayshaun for ages, so logjam at SG and SF might not continue to be logjam if deal ever materializes 

http://twitter.com/stein_line_hq



So if Sheed decides to come back, is there any way we can get one of these guys? Maybe Baby + a pick?

I wouldn't give up Baby for either of those, even if Sheed comes back.  People seem to forget that our bigs are OLD and won't be here after next season most likely.  We need to hold onto our good young players.  We need to get someone who we don't need to trade a good rotation player for, like Battier, Corey Brewer, etc.

[Jon]

Pistons have been shopping Rip and Tayshaun for ages, so logjam at SG and SF might not continue to be logjam if deal ever materializes 

http://twitter.com/stein_line_hq



So if Sheed decides to come back, is there any way we can get one of these guys? Maybe Baby + a pick?

I wouldn't give up Baby for either of those, even if Sheed comes back.  People seem to forget that our bigs are OLD and won't be here after next season most likely.  We need to hold onto our good young players.  We need to get someone who we don't need to trade a good rotation player for, like Battier, Corey Brewer, etc.

I don't agree.  The only reason in my book to hold onto Baby is if we think we absolutely need him THIS season.  I couldn't care less about his future with this team.  Assuming that this team is even able to rebuild another championship contender around Rondo, BBD won't be a big part of that. 

And given what we may have to pay to retain him after this season, I don't think it's worth eating up potential cap space. 

I also think we're being unrealistic about what we can get for Rasheed's deal.  Battier is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.  I don't see Houston giving him to us. 

[hpantazo]

Pistons have been shopping Rip and Tayshaun for ages, so logjam at SG and SF might not continue to be logjam if deal ever materializes 

http://twitter.com/stein_line_hq



So if Sheed decides to come back, is there any way we can get one of these guys? Maybe Baby + a pick?

I wouldn't give up Baby for either of those, even if Sheed comes back.  People seem to forget that our bigs are OLD and won't be here after next season most likely.  We need to hold onto our good young players.  We need to get someone who we don't need to trade a good rotation player for, like Battier, Corey Brewer, etc.

I don't agree.  The only reason in my book to hold onto Baby is if we think we absolutely need him THIS season.  I couldn't care less about his future with this team.  Assuming that this team is even able to rebuild another championship contender around Rondo, BBD won't be a big part of that. 

And given what we may have to pay to retain him after this season, I don't think it's worth eating up potential cap space. 

I also think we're being unrealistic about what we can get for Rasheed's deal.  Battier is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.  I don't see Houston giving him to us. 

TP, well said. There is no reason to keep Davis for the future, I would never pay to build around him as one of our key big men, he is too limited. If he can't beat out Sheed, the Oneal's, and KG for playing time this year, then get rid of him.

[zerophase]

i would trade a combination of bbd and sheed for either of those two in a heartbeat. celtics fans need to stop overvaluing their players.

[snively]

Dumars has done so much damage to that team.  The Darko pick, the Hamilton extension, the Billups trade, and the Gordon/Villanueva contracts: too many huge mistakes to be entrusted with the future.  He should be fired.

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox might be something that mildly appeals to Detroit, and it would definitely improve our team.  Prince is a heckuvva player to bring off the bench.

Still, I'd prefer Diaw to Prince at this point.  He's likely to be cheaper than Prince in a trade (he's a hired gun at a stacked position in Charlotte with a rep for an iffy work ethic, whereas Prince is a high-profile fan favorite in Detroit with a great reputation), he's signed for 2 years, he's younger, he's developed into a comparable shooter, and offers similar if not superior offensive/defensive versatility at a lower usage.

[Asijs]

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox

This don't work - http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28jgfew . But this work: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23xw5o8

[zerophase]

Dumars has done so much damage to that team.  The Darko pick, the Hamilton extension, the Billups trade, and the Gordon/Villanueva contracts: too many huge mistakes to be entrusted with the future.  He should be fired.

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox might be something that mildly appeals to Detroit, and it would definitely improve our team.  Prince is a heckuvva player to bring off the bench.

Still, I'd prefer Diaw to Prince at this point.  He's likely to be cheaper than Prince in a trade (he's a hired gun at a stacked position in Charlotte with a rep for an iffy work ethic, whereas Prince is a high-profile fan favorite in Detroit with a great reputation), he's signed for 2 years, he's younger, he's developed into a comparable shooter, and offers similar if not superior offensive/defensive versatility at a lower usage.

you forget that dumars also built the '04 championship team too though. the same criticisms can be said of danny another 3-4 years down the road if we don't win another championship and we have to rebuild again.

[snively]

Dumars has done so much damage to that team.  The Darko pick, the Hamilton extension, the Billups trade, and the Gordon/Villanueva contracts: too many huge mistakes to be entrusted with the future.  He should be fired.

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox might be something that mildly appeals to Detroit, and it would definitely improve our team.  Prince is a heckuvva player to bring off the bench.

Still, I'd prefer Diaw to Prince at this point.  He's likely to be cheaper than Prince in a trade (he's a hired gun at a stacked position in Charlotte with a rep for an iffy work ethic, whereas Prince is a high-profile fan favorite in Detroit with a great reputation), he's signed for 2 years, he's younger, he's developed into a comparable shooter, and offers similar if not superior offensive/defensive versatility at a lower usage.

you forget that dumars also built the '04 championship team too though. the same criticisms can be said of danny another 3-4 years down the road if we don't win another championship and we have to rebuild again.

I think Dumars did a fine job building the championship team, but it's hard for a GM to fix his own mistakes, especially so many at once.  His judgment gets compromised and he oftens ends up compounding his earlier mistakes.  Seriously, who signs Gordon to that deal with Hamilton already on the roster with a nigh untradeable deal?  Better to get a new guy with a new vision and no baggage with the current roster.

[FallGuy]

Dumars has done so much damage to that team.  The Darko pick, the Hamilton extension, the Billups trade, and the Gordon/Villanueva contracts: too many huge mistakes to be entrusted with the future.  He should be fired.

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox might be something that mildly appeals to Detroit, and it would definitely improve our team.  Prince is a heckuvva player to bring off the bench.

Still, I'd prefer Diaw to Prince at this point.  He's likely to be cheaper than Prince in a trade (he's a hired gun at a stacked position in Charlotte with a rep for an iffy work ethic, whereas Prince is a high-profile fan favorite in Detroit with a great reputation), he's signed for 2 years, he's younger, he's developed into a comparable shooter, and offers similar if not superior offensive/defensive versatility at a lower usage.

you forget that dumars also built the '04 championship team too though. the same criticisms can be said of danny another 3-4 years down the road if we don't win another championship and we have to rebuild again.

Ainge is outperforming Dumars right now. Boston's unwieldy contracts, save for Paul, all expire in a single year. Whereas Dumars has locked down a mediocre Pistons team for the next four years by blowing his cap room on long, expensive contracts to supporting players. I think his recent body of work puts him in the bottom third of NBA GMs.

[the_Bird]

Dumars has done so much damage to that team.  The Darko pick, the Hamilton extension, the Billups trade, and the Gordon/Villanueva contracts: too many huge mistakes to be entrusted with the future.  He should be fired.

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox might be something that mildly appeals to Detroit, and it would definitely improve our team.  Prince is a heckuvva player to bring off the bench.

Still, I'd prefer Diaw to Prince at this point.  He's likely to be cheaper than Prince in a trade (he's a hired gun at a stacked position in Charlotte with a rep for an iffy work ethic, whereas Prince is a high-profile fan favorite in Detroit with a great reputation), he's signed for 2 years, he's younger, he's developed into a comparable shooter, and offers similar if not superior offensive/defensive versatility at a lower usage.

you forget that dumars also built the '04 championship team too though. the same criticisms can be said of danny another 3-4 years down the road if we don't win another championship and we have to rebuild again.

I think Dumars did a fine job building the championship team, but it's hard for a GM to fix his own mistakes, especially so many at once.  His judgment gets compromised and he oftens ends up compounding his earlier mistakes.  Seriously, who signs Gordon to that deal with Hamilton already on the roster with a nigh untradeable deal?  Better to get a new guy with a new vision and no baggage with the current roster.

Exactly.  Go back in the archives twelve months, you'll find lots of us saying that the Ben Gordon (and even worse, Charlie V) signings were dumb, dumb, dumb.  I like Ben Gordon as a player, but he was completely redundant with the squad that they already had (and were pretty much stuck with).  No real PG.  No real C.  Charlie V's a 3/4 tweener. 

Pretty much since giving up on Chauncey, Dumars has been making big mistake after big mistake.  At least if Danny's moves this year turn out crap - if Shaq's a disaster, if JO's play is more like the last few games and less like last year's regular season, if Wafer and Quis are busts - there's no one on the books past 2012.

C's are in a position to compete, then completely rebuild.  Pistons are stuck, the talent they have and how it's spread out (and how limited they are in ways to improve) pretty much [dang] them to being a #7 or #8 seed at best.

[KobeGotRondoD]

Baby/Sheed/Bradley for Prince/Wilcox

This don't work - http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28jgfew . But this work: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23xw5o8

I wouldn't give up Avery Bradley in this trade for Prince/Wilcox.. I think in a couple years people will realize he was a huge steal in this draft. Instead I'd throw in Marquis Daniels with Sheed's contract b/c we won't be needing him if we're getting Prince in return

[the_Bird]

Don't think we can trade Quis until December, since we just signed him as a free agent. 

I'm cautiously optimistic about Bradley.  Like that they say he can play NBA D already, which makes me think that he may get a little court time fairly early on.  He'll probably be competing mostly with Von Wafer for a few minutes here and there.  I think he'll get a shot; when young guys DON'T play early on, it's usually because of their D. 

[JSD]

An idea that makes sense for both teams would have Cleveland sending  Jamison and Gibson for Detroit's Rip and Prince.

Cleveland

- Replace James with two playoff tested, savvy veterans.
- Make way for Hickson to start at PF

Detroit

- Instant and long run money savings.
- Free's up the logjam at the 2/3.

[the_Bird]

Trade doesn't quite work.  Jamison and Boobie are about $17.4M in combined salary; Prince and Rip are $23.7M.  Not quite within the 25% thresehold. 

Not a bad thought, though.  Detroit could use a real PF, let Charlie V come off the bench as a 3/4-type.  Cleveland would probably be a playoff squad - not a great team, but probably a #6 or #7 seed.

Starters would be:
Mo Williams
Rip
Prince
Hickson
Varejao

Detroit would still be looking for a point guard and a center, but so's half the league.

Incidentally, did Hoopshype just fix some data recently?  They're showing the last years of Boobie's and Moon's deals as being team options, when I distinctly remember them just showing up as regular guaranteed years a  few weeks ago.