A Juggernaut Frontcourt

[manl_lui]

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

Talk about stuff coming out of the left field. Do you watch your basketball games drinking beer, or wine? We're talking about Shaq here.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.

And we're addressing this by signing a guy who was held to 5 rebounds in 23 minutes versus our allegedly poor rebounding team? Forgive me if I think his rebounding prowess might be overrated at this stage of his career.

The fact you argued that Brian Freakin' Skinner would be a better pick up than Shaq proves that you're fundamentally irrational on this issue, no matter how desperately you pretend otherwise.  But let me deal with these two things.

1.  The point I'm obviously making with Rondo is that you can rip him apart if all you focus on is his weaknesses and ignore all of his strengths, much like you're doing to Shaq.

2.  Sheed averaged 2.3 rebounds against Cleveland in the Eastern Semis, 3 boards for the playoffs and 4.1 rebounds for the regular season.  Shaq averaged 5 boards against Boston, 5.5 for the playoffs and 6.7 for the regular season.  A back up center who's going to average nearly 3 more rebounds a game will improve a team's rebounding.

Again, stop embarrasing yourself.

Mike

With KG returning into form, JO (supposedly injured during Miami-Boston series), should be healing, Shaq, and BBD, our rebounding might be 3-5 rebounds higher than last years...

2008-2009 season was horrible in rebounding and TO, 2009-2010 season was also a bad rebounding season in my opinion...

hopefully this solves our rebounding issues

[Arok325]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

[manl_lui]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

[GreenFaith1819]

Yes we will be a Huge and Smart frontcourt.

The funny thing here is that after chatting with LA fans, they are saying stuff like:

"Kobe and Gasol will pick and roll us to death."

"LA will run us into the ground. We just got slower with Shaq."

(Funny thing with the last comment is that we forced them to play our brand of ball last June - we just came within Kendrick Perkins being available of pulling out a win. I don't see them running us out of the gym now, even with Shaq.)

And Finally - "Their Big Combo of Gasol, Bynum, Theo Ratliff, and O'Dom will overcome our Big Combo."

For the previous comment - I think if the Refs let us play - even a little, then they will be a bruised group of Bigs. Even in the event that they start calling ticky-tac fouls, we now have enough Bigs to overcome that.

They seem to be overlooking the fact that Shaq and J.O both had decent games VS LA last year, with Shaq pretty much shutting Gasol and Bynum down both games.

Of course some are upset over there at Silver Screen and Roll - And I Absolutely Love It . Glad to see that Shaq signing with their Mortal Enemies is raining on their victory parade.

And Somewhere - David Stern is grinning from ear to ear at the possibilities for the 2010-11 season.

[MBunge]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

Let's not get ridiculous.  When healthy, Perk is a better rebounder and much better all-around defender than Shaq.  Perk has also worked hard to turn himself into a perfectly useful regular season scorer.  Shaq's only advantages are being a better finisher at the rim and that his size and skill allow him to score in the post against the toughest defenses, while Perk's offense is much easier to shut down.

Mike

[BballTim]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

  In part because Rondo's flaws don't affect the team as much as you claim. In part because Rondo does enough good things on the offensive end to make up for his weakness. In part because if we play the Heat in the playoffs how well the center performs defensively will be significantly more important than what he does on the other end.

Wrong.  How much scoring you can get out of the center position will be incredibly important against the Heat, because no one's going to outscore them on the wing and very few teams will be able to even equal their firepower at the 4.  Given that Miami's best low-post defender is probably the 6'7'' Udonis Haslem, attacking the Heat inside and forcing the defense to adjust and open things up on the permimeter is going to be essential.

Mike

  If your plan is to let LeBron and Wade have a layup whenever  they get past PP or RA and counter that by outscoring them at the center spot you won't get far.

[BballTim]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

  So you didn't notice any difference between them on defense last year? Wow.

[BballTim]

Yes we will be a Huge and Smart frontcourt.

The funny thing here is that after chatting with LA fans, they are saying stuff like:

"Kobe and Gasol will pick and roll us to death."

"LA will run us into the ground. We just got slower with Shaq."

(Funny thing with the last comment is that we forced them to play our brand of ball last June - we just came within Kendrick Perkins being available of pulling out a win. I don't see them running us out of the gym now, even with Shaq.)

And Finally - "Their Big Combo of Gasol, Bynum, Theo Ratliff, and O'Dom will overcome our Big Combo."

For the previous comment - I think if the Refs let us play - even a little, then they will be a bruised group of Bigs. Even in the event that they start calling ticky-tac fouls, we now have enough Bigs to overcome that.

They seem to be overlooking the fact that Shaq and J.O both had decent games VS LA last year, with Shaq pretty much shutting Gasol and Bynum down both games.

Of course some are upset over there at Silver Screen and Roll - And I Absolutely Love It . Glad to see that Shaq signing with their Mortal Enemies is raining on their victory parade.

And Somewhere - David Stern is grinning from ear to ear at the possibilities for the 2010-11 season.

  I can practically guarantee that if LA tries to run the Celts into the ground Rondo will be finals mvp.

[Snakehead]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

Let's not get ridiculous.  When healthy, Perk is a better rebounder and much better all-around defender than Shaq.  Perk has also worked hard to turn himself into a perfectly useful regular season scorer.  Shaq's only advantages are being a better finisher at the rim and that his size and skill allow him to score in the post against the toughest defenses, while Perk's offense is much easier to shut down.

Mike

Well those are pretty good "only" advantages.  I think you're right mostly to clarify, but those will really help our our half court offense.  He is a much better finisher at the rim, and he can score against anyone in the post AND demand double teams, which no one on our team does in the post. Shaq is a better offensive rebounder than Perkins.  He also is a very good post passer, so imagine the type of cuts we've seen Rondo and KG run for each other run similarly for Shaq and also the three of them working as a unit out of the post.  Very nice.


Also, Perk has no real "above the rim" presence despite his size.  Shaq brings the offensive boards and both of the O'Neals will be new found alley-oop targets for Rondo, who has been great throwing alleys to KG, but KG has been  his only real option for that pass.  That is an undertated element of todays post game.  You can see how guys like Chris Paul have utilized it when they have reliable options to throw to there.

[BballTim]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

Let's not get ridiculous.  When healthy, Perk is a better rebounder and much better all-around defender than Shaq.  Perk has also worked hard to turn himself into a perfectly useful regular season scorer.  Shaq's only advantages are being a better finisher at the rim and that his size and skill allow him to score in the post against the toughest defenses, while Perk's offense is much easier to shut down.

Mike

Well those are pretty good "only" advantages.  I think you're right mostly to clarify, but those will really help our our half court offense.  He is a much better finisher at the rim, and he can score against anyone in the post AND demand double teams, which no one on our team does in the post. Shaq is a better offensive rebounder than Perkins.  He also is a very good post passer, so imagine the type of plays we've seen Rondo and KG run for eachother run similarly for Shaq and also the three of them working as a unit out of the post.  Very nice.


Also, Perk has no real "above the rim" presence despite his size.  Shaq brings the offensive boards and both of the O'Neals will be new found alley-oop targets for Rondo, who has been great throwing alleys to KG, but KG has been  his only real option for that pass.  That is an undertated element of todays post game.  You can see how guys like Chris Paul have utilized it when they have reliable options to throw to there.

  When you talk about offensive boards you have to keep in mind that Perk doesn't contest for a lot of them because Doc has them run back on defense instead. Even still Shaq is no better at offensive rebounding than Perk and he's getting worse with age.

[Snakehead]

Obviously some people are going to hate the Shaq signing no matter what.  But I think people are getting ahead of themselves.  We're not talking about Shaq playing a key role on this team.  As of right now he's a band-aid.  He patches up the system while Perk is injured.  If he plays himself into a key role by the time of the playoffs great.  If not no big loss.  He's a body.  A banger.  He's going to make the other team work simply because of his size.  

Really hating this move is asinine.  Yes you can hark back to the numbers game but numbers don't tell everything.  We'll see this season.  No big deal.  Either way you slice it he has a role on this team and is going to be an asset.  

i think Shaq can help a lot more than people expect, come on, like Perk is any better? Perk is like a smaller Shaq except Shaq can finish

Let's not get ridiculous.  When healthy, Perk is a better rebounder and much better all-around defender than Shaq.  Perk has also worked hard to turn himself into a perfectly useful regular season scorer.  Shaq's only advantages are being a better finisher at the rim and that his size and skill allow him to score in the post against the toughest defenses, while Perk's offense is much easier to shut down.

Mike

Well those are pretty good "only" advantages.  I think you're right mostly to clarify, but those will really help our our half court offense.  He is a much better finisher at the rim, and he can score against anyone in the post AND demand double teams, which no one on our team does in the post. Shaq is a better offensive rebounder than Perkins.  He also is a very good post passer, so imagine the type of plays we've seen Rondo and KG run for eachother run similarly for Shaq and also the three of them working as a unit out of the post.  Very nice.


Also, Perk has no real "above the rim" presence despite his size.  Shaq brings the offensive boards and both of the O'Neals will be new found alley-oop targets for Rondo, who has been great throwing alleys to KG, but KG has been  his only real option for that pass.  That is an undertated element of todays post game.  You can see how guys like Chris Paul have utilized it when they have reliable options to throw to there.

  When you talk about offensive boards you have to keep in mind that Perk doesn't contest for a lot of them because Doc has them run back on defense instead. Even still Shaq is no better at offensive rebounding than Perk and he's getting worse with age.

That's a valid point, and I'm not saying Shaq is a lot better but I think Shaq has the upper hand on the offensive boards still and especially when you take into consideration his ability to grab an offensive board and convert it into a basket or grab them around the rim, which is valuable against bigger teams like the Lakers.  When Shaq grabs an offensive board he will also recieve double team like attention, so even if he can't convert it he can pass out to a shooter and he is a very good passer.

[Celtics4ever]

Bballtim,

Shotblockers keep people from attacking the rim.  I think a lot of the so called scorers in the NBA like say LeBron are woeful shooters.  They get a lot of inflated Fg% from dunks and layups.  Bigs should help versus that significantly and if not they can always put him on his back a few times to make him think once or twice about taking it to the rack.

Good shotblockers will even have their wings channel the peeps to them.   Hands up on shots ,  try to stay in front of the ball/man is all we are going to need.  We collapse on any penetration.  Its not that hard to do , its effective and we have adequate personel to execute that.

BTW, I don't recall any of these super wings beating us in the playoffs.  James went down, Wade went down.  I recall the refs beating us.

[MBunge]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

  In part because Rondo's flaws don't affect the team as much as you claim. In part because Rondo does enough good things on the offensive end to make up for his weakness. In part because if we play the Heat in the playoffs how well the center performs defensively will be significantly more important than what he does on the other end.

Wrong.  How much scoring you can get out of the center position will be incredibly important against the Heat, because no one's going to outscore them on the wing and very few teams will be able to even equal their firepower at the 4.  Given that Miami's best low-post defender is probably the 6'7'' Udonis Haslem, attacking the Heat inside and forcing the defense to adjust and open things up on the permimeter is going to be essential.

Mike

  If your plan is to let LeBron and Wade have a layup whenever  they get past PP or RA and counter that by outscoring them at the center spot you won't get far.

You can play the greatest team defense in the history of the NBA, defense so intense it makes the Celtics in these past playoffs look like Loyola-Marymount in the late 1980s, but if you don't decisively win the PG and C matchups with the Heat, it will be almost impossible to beat them.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

2.  Sheed averaged 2.3 rebounds against Cleveland in the Eastern Semis, 3 boards for the playoffs and 4.1 rebounds for the regular season.  Shaq averaged 5 boards against Boston, 5.5 for the playoffs and 6.7 for the regular season.  A back up center who's going to average nearly 3 more rebounds a game will improve a team's rebounding.

The difference becomes much less significant if you acknowledge the fact that Wallace averaged 5 less minutes in the playoffs than Shaq did.

Also, you are conveniently disregarding the fact that he averaged 4.6 rebounds in 20 minutes in the NBA finals -- a series you claim we lost because we couldn't rebound. Having Shaq instead of Rasheed for those 20 minutes would have given us about 0.4 extra rebounds. Yes, Shaq seems to be the solution to our problems.

Again, stop embarrasing yourself.

Sure. As soon as you stop throwing out clearly biased data to support your shaky arguments.

[celticsclay]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

The second sentence was clearly tongue in cheek. "Blew past people on the dribble"! Seem like sarcasm to me.

LoL, nice catch!  I didn't even notice that line.  The problem with Scalabrine was never effort, it was talent.  That's why when Scalabrine got into the game you knew it was officially garbage time.  I think that Harangody has much more talent than the redhead did and he will cost only a fraction of the salary.  Addition by subtraction.

i don't think Scal is bad at all, he has good basketball IQ and ok Defense, but definitely not worth the money he is having right now...could knock down 3s

too bad he has the IQ of Michael Jordan but the body of Peter Griffin =P

i prefer having him back as a mascot though  

Ahh yea that was a very tongue in cheek post, glad you guys caught that. However, I will miss him in his mascot towel waving roll. I don't think Gaffney or Layfayette will be on roster at beginning of season so we do have the roster spots.