A Juggernaut Frontcourt

[MBunge]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor,

The idea that Cleveland was better without Shaq has become the conventional wisdom and there is evidence to support that view.  But if you go back just one more year to Shaq in Phoenix, he had the 3rd best +/- rating on the Suns and Shaq was part of three of the top four 5 man units with the best +/- for the team.

Going back to his last Phoenix season, we indeed find a better Shaq. He's improved from a general detriment (-6 net points per 100 possessions) to a non-entity (+1 net point per 100 possessions). For comparison, Steve Nash, who was allegedly "exposed" by the Shaq signing, is a net +8 per 100.

And the Cavs were 40 and 13 when Shaq played for them last season, 21 and 8 when he didn't.  That's a winning percentage of 75% vs 71%.  Wow, you're right.  The Cavs were better without Shaq.

Of these 53 games, the Cavs are a 14-3 when Shaq plays 20 minutes or less, and 26-10 in the remainder. Take this for what you will -- my take is that the Cavs won despite, not because of Shaq.

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

[manl_lui]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

defense is not a problem, rebound and offense is...Shaq can provide both

[MBunge]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

[RockinRyA]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

 ::)we get it you dont like shaq

[sk7326]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

Shaq also averaged 23 minutes a game ... for 40 minutes those are solid numbers - and we know he won't be playing 40

 ::)we get it you dont like shaq

[manl_lui]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

yeh, i agree, Shaq is a good signing in my opinion, every player have their flaws, its not like people don't get p---ed off when Rondo shot 50% against the Lakers, it was very frustrating, but i end up overlooking his flaws with his defense, assist and other ways of scoring

[kozlodoev]

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

Talk about stuff coming out of the left field. Do you watch your basketball games drinking beer, or wine? We're talking about Shaq here.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.

And we're addressing this by signing a guy who was held to 5 rebounds in 23 minutes versus our allegedly poor rebounding team? Forgive me if I think his rebounding prowess might be overrated at this stage of his career.

The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.

Should we address this by rewiring Ray Allen, or do you think signing Shaq helps?

Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

No, I don't. I just value defensive contribution more than offensive contribution.

But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.

Rondo is a first-team all-NBA defensive player. Notice a pattern there?
  
I clearly remember explaining all this to you before, so you either have selective memory, or were too busy pasting Shaq's 12 points and 6.7 rebounds.

[FallGuy]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

defense is not a problem, rebound and offense is...Shaq can provide both

Wing defense remains a huge problem.

[Celtics4ever]

It could be a problem, but we can dare teams to shoot over us, now.  If they are off it could be a long night for them.  PP and RA are not bad wing defenders either.  Some teams may think they can run against us but if we control the boards then they can't run.  One has to be able to rebound to start the fast break.   If a team does control the boards I could see us having issues with transition defense.

[BballTim]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

  In part because Rondo's flaws don't affect the team as much as you claim. In part because Rondo does enough good things on the offensive end to make up for his weakness. In part because if we play the Heat in the playoffs how well the center performs defensively will be significantly more important than what he does on the other end.

[BballTim]

It could be a problem, but we can dare teams to shoot over us, now.  If they are off it could be a long night for them.  PP and RA are not bad wing defenders either.  Some teams may think they can run against us but if we control the boards then they can't run.  One has to be able to rebound to start the fast break.   If a team does control the boards I could see us having issues with transition defense.

  You can only really dare teams to shoot over you if they can't get to the rim.

[manl_lui]

like Lebron, he's more potent driving to the basket than he is shooting, however his shooting is improving though...

Wade is not much of a 3 pt shooter, hes also a mid range and drives a lot, similar to Kobe, but Kobe is a lot better shooter

Make lebron into a shooter, Keep Wade on the 3 pt line, i like our chances with their % if that happens, Ray Ray's defense just keeps getting better...he wasnt much of a defender back in Seattle

I mean his defense on Kobe was great, though Kobe was still able to shoot over him =\

[MBunge]

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

Talk about stuff coming out of the left field. Do you watch your basketball games drinking beer, or wine? We're talking about Shaq here.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.

And we're addressing this by signing a guy who was held to 5 rebounds in 23 minutes versus our allegedly poor rebounding team? Forgive me if I think his rebounding prowess might be overrated at this stage of his career.

The fact you argued that Brian Freakin' Skinner would be a better pick up than Shaq proves that you're fundamentally irrational on this issue, no matter how desperately you pretend otherwise.  But let me deal with these two things.

1.  The point I'm obviously making with Rondo is that you can rip him apart if all you focus on is his weaknesses and ignore all of his strengths, much like you're doing to Shaq.

2.  Sheed averaged 2.3 rebounds against Cleveland in the Eastern Semis, 3 boards for the playoffs and 4.1 rebounds for the regular season.  Shaq averaged 5 boards against Boston, 5.5 for the playoffs and 6.7 for the regular season.  A back up center who's going to average nearly 3 more rebounds a game will improve a team's rebounding.

Again, stop embarrasing yourself.

Mike

[MBunge]

And that's the same level of penetrating, insightful analysis that led you to argue that Brian Freakin' Skinner, who averaged a stupendous 1.6 points and 1.7 boards a game last season, would be a better signing than Shaq.

Ok. Shaq averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last season. We'll give him the ball and DOMINATE the opposition. Yay!

I have a question.  Do you hate Rondo as Boston's starting PG?  I ask because Rondo's poor shooting is probably a much more serious problem for the team than the defensive weaknesses of a back up center.

The biggest problem for the Celts in the Finals was giving up too many offensive rebounds.  The second biggest problem was Ray Allen being unable to hit open shots.  But the third biggest problem was how incredibly hard the team had to work to compensate for Rondo's inability to take and make 15 jumpers or free throws.  Since you basically disregard everything positive about Shaq and magnifiy his flaws, why not do the same with Rondo?

Mike

  In part because Rondo's flaws don't affect the team as much as you claim. In part because Rondo does enough good things on the offensive end to make up for his weakness. In part because if we play the Heat in the playoffs how well the center performs defensively will be significantly more important than what he does on the other end.

Wrong.  How much scoring you can get out of the center position will be incredibly important against the Heat, because no one's going to outscore them on the wing and very few teams will be able to even equal their firepower at the 4.  Given that Miami's best low-post defender is probably the 6'7'' Udonis Haslem, attacking the Heat inside and forcing the defense to adjust and open things up on the permimeter is going to be essential.

Mike