A Juggernaut Frontcourt

[hpantazo]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

I disagree. Scal was a solid bench player who could play the 3 and the 4, play smart defense, set picks, and hit the outside jumper. We still need a 3rd string PF and I think Scal would be perfect for that role. Who else can you sign for the vet min that Doc would trust to throw out on the floor in times of need?

[kozlodoev]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor,

The idea that Cleveland was better without Shaq has become the conventional wisdom and there is evidence to support that view.  But if you go back just one more year to Shaq in Phoenix, he had the 3rd best +/- rating on the Suns and Shaq was part of three of the top four 5 man units with the best +/- for the team.

Going back to his last Phoenix season, we indeed find a better Shaq. He's improved from a general detriment (-6 net points per 100 possessions) to a non-entity (+1 net point per 100 possessions). For comparison, Steve Nash, who was allegedly "exposed" by the Shaq signing, is a net +8 per 100.

[Army_of_One_Nation]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor, and Mike Brown either didn't see it, or didn't have the cojones to bench Shaq. In the playoffs, if we have Perk back, the usual tendency is to shorten the rotation, which would mean J.O. and BBD as the first bigs off the bench, and Shaq playing the Shelden Williams role. If that's the case, I'm worried that Shaq is not going to be happy with that. It will be up to Doc to manage the egos and also to put the best team on the floor.

At the same time, you never know about players coming back from injury, and so I like the insurance aspect of the move. I see Shaq as a great move from November to January, a good move from February to April, and a could work/could backfire move from April to June.

I am really tired of hearing that when Shaq was off the floor, the Cavs were better. Maybe it wasnt Shaq but the combination of players. For example, when Varejau was ON the floor I thought the Cavs were the better team. It is difficult to tell unless you really break it down. I thought Shaq was very effective in that series when put in good positions. For example, he guarded KG for stretches very effectively when Mike Brown finally realized Jamison was awful.

What Shaq can bring.

-Big body on defense
-Rebounding
-Post presence on offense

Defenciencies:

-pick and roll defense (name 5 centers in the NBA who excell at P&R defense)
-running the floor
- Can clog the lane (and also create open space for shooters...which we have plenty of)

He will be coming off the bench for us and situationally can win us some games. I trust our coaching staff to recognize those situations and put him in positions to suceed.

I agree, I trust Doc in working Shaq into our rotation and situations...

Mike Brown is a bad coach, i mean come on, Shaq, Lebron, Mo, Antawn, Big Z, i mean Antawn and Big Z probably not that big of a deal, but he had somewhat of an OK piece to win the championship and he failed...

If Doc or Phil Jackson was coaching that team, it would've been a lot different

I agree. I was telling my son if Brown inserted James as a SG, the lineup will be like this: Jamison at SF, Verajao PF, Shaq at C, Mo running the point. That is a potent lineup. Good thing Brown and his assistants were not that good in realizing this.

[guava_wrench]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

The second sentence was clearly tongue in cheek. "Blew past people on the dribble"! Seem like sarcasm to me.

[ram]

The O'Neil brothers(sic) last year averaged a combined 26 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 2.8 APG and 2.6 blkspg in a combined 51 minutes per game and .544 FG%

Perk and Sheed, in just over a combined 50 minutes: 19.1/11.7/2.0/2.6

just sayin'

[manl_lui]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor, and Mike Brown either didn't see it, or didn't have the cojones to bench Shaq. In the playoffs, if we have Perk back, the usual tendency is to shorten the rotation, which would mean J.O. and BBD as the first bigs off the bench, and Shaq playing the Shelden Williams role. If that's the case, I'm worried that Shaq is not going to be happy with that. It will be up to Doc to manage the egos and also to put the best team on the floor.

At the same time, you never know about players coming back from injury, and so I like the insurance aspect of the move. I see Shaq as a great move from November to January, a good move from February to April, and a could work/could backfire move from April to June.

I am really tired of hearing that when Shaq was off the floor, the Cavs were better. Maybe it wasnt Shaq but the combination of players. For example, when Varejau was ON the floor I thought the Cavs were the better team. It is difficult to tell unless you really break it down. I thought Shaq was very effective in that series when put in good positions. For example, he guarded KG for stretches very effectively when Mike Brown finally realized Jamison was awful.

What Shaq can bring.

-Big body on defense
-Rebounding
-Post presence on offense

Defenciencies:

-pick and roll defense (name 5 centers in the NBA who excell at P&R defense)
-running the floor
- Can clog the lane (and also create open space for shooters...which we have plenty of)

He will be coming off the bench for us and situationally can win us some games. I trust our coaching staff to recognize those situations and put him in positions to suceed.

I agree, I trust Doc in working Shaq into our rotation and situations...

Mike Brown is a bad coach, i mean come on, Shaq, Lebron, Mo, Antawn, Big Z, i mean Antawn and Big Z probably not that big of a deal, but he had somewhat of an OK piece to win the championship and he failed...

If Doc or Phil Jackson was coaching that team, it would've been a lot different

I agree. I was telling my son if Brown inserted James as a SG, the lineup will be like this: Jamison at SF, Verajao PF, Shaq at C, Mo running the point. That is a potent lineup. Good thing Brown and his assistants were not that good in realizing this.

Lebron is a very good defender and jump shooter now, however like Wade and Vince, i do not think he wants to fight through screens just to chase Ray down, if he does get inserted into SG, we would've just taken the game in 5 instead...

Rondo > Mo
Ray will outrun James and James will still score his 30
Paul will actually score more compare to Lebron guarding him, leaving that our ppg might be higher

[BballTim]

And all this doesn't change the fact that championships are won on defense.

Boston held LA to 89 and 83 points the last two games of the Finals and still lost.  There's a point where you simply have to be able to score.

Mike

  Sure, you have to score, but how much does it help if it's at the expense of your defense? Phoenix broke 100 in all 6 of their playoff games vs LA. How'd that work out?

[manl_lui]

our defense did indeed hold LA back below 90, we couldve held them under 85 too if we had Perk in there, those 20+ offensive boards is a big reason why they crawled back from 14 down and won,

that and a lot of BS calls

[BballTim]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

  We can only replace him with a vet min player unless we sign/trade him.

[vjcsmoke]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

The second sentence was clearly tongue in cheek. "Blew past people on the dribble"! Seem like sarcasm to me.

LoL, nice catch!  I didn't even notice that line.  The problem with Scalabrine was never effort, it was talent.  That's why when Scalabrine got into the game you knew it was officially garbage time.  I think that Harangody has much more talent than the redhead did and he will cost only a fraction of the salary.  Addition by subtraction.

[MBunge]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor,

The idea that Cleveland was better without Shaq has become the conventional wisdom and there is evidence to support that view.  But if you go back just one more year to Shaq in Phoenix, he had the 3rd best +/- rating on the Suns and Shaq was part of three of the top four 5 man units with the best +/- for the team.

Going back to his last Phoenix season, we indeed find a better Shaq. He's improved from a general detriment (-6 net points per 100 possessions) to a non-entity (+1 net point per 100 possessions). For comparison, Steve Nash, who was allegedly "exposed" by the Shaq signing, is a net +8 per 100.

And the Cavs were 40 and 13 when Shaq played for them last season, 21 and 8 when he didn't.  That's a winning percentage of 75% vs 71%.  Wow, you're right.  The Cavs were better without Shaq.

Mike

Mike

[manl_lui]

I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.

The second sentence was clearly tongue in cheek. "Blew past people on the dribble"! Seem like sarcasm to me.

LoL, nice catch!  I didn't even notice that line.  The problem with Scalabrine was never effort, it was talent.  That's why when Scalabrine got into the game you knew it was officially garbage time.  I think that Harangody has much more talent than the redhead did and he will cost only a fraction of the salary.  Addition by subtraction.

i don't think Scal is bad at all, he has good basketball IQ and ok Defense, but definitely not worth the money he is having right now...could knock down 3s

too bad he has the IQ of Michael Jordan but the body of Peter Griffin =P

i prefer having him back as a mascot though  

[MBunge]

edit

[kozlodoev]

I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor,

The idea that Cleveland was better without Shaq has become the conventional wisdom and there is evidence to support that view.  But if you go back just one more year to Shaq in Phoenix, he had the 3rd best +/- rating on the Suns and Shaq was part of three of the top four 5 man units with the best +/- for the team.

Going back to his last Phoenix season, we indeed find a better Shaq. He's improved from a general detriment (-6 net points per 100 possessions) to a non-entity (+1 net point per 100 possessions). For comparison, Steve Nash, who was allegedly "exposed" by the Shaq signing, is a net +8 per 100.

And the Cavs were 40 and 13 when Shaq played for them last season, 21 and 8 when he didn't.  That's a winning percentage of 75% vs 71%.  Wow, you're right.  The Cavs were better without Shaq.

Of these 53 games, the Cavs are a 14-3 when Shaq plays 20 minutes or less, and 26-10 in the remainder. Take this for what you will -- my take is that the Cavs won despite, not because of Shaq.

[JHTruth]

I live in Phoenix and I can tell you to forget about Shaq's tenure here. The Suns will never win a championship with Steve Nash, but he has all the power on the team. Steve Kerr tried to change the character of the team to one that could actually win big in the playoffs and failed. Phoenix players and fans love the 6 seconds or less style and Kerr and Shaq were never going to be successful there even if Shaq was in 2000 form.

If Cleveland was in fact more proficient on offense sans Shaq, then it would have to be due to the fact that LeBron simply handled the ball more. Because there is not a single other player on that team that could create a shot. I believe Miami's chemistry will struggle for that reason. Wade and LeBron both need to handle the ball ALOT.

Shaq can be accomodated into the system if the other players buy in. That was lacking in Phx and Cle. I think we're doing exactly what we need to do. Getting huge and deep in the frontcourt is the only way we're going to beat Orlando, Miami, and LA..