Shaq Signs with the Celts (Official per Celtics.com; Report: 2 years, $2.8 mil)

[MBunge]

Players with a worst TS% than Shaq include Sheed, Glen Davis, Big Z and Andrew Bogut.  And while Perk has a higher TS% than Shaq, do you really think that's because Perk is a better or more effective low-post scorer than Shaq?

And his TS% did edge up from the number I quoted to .565% by the end of the season (also a smidge better than Jermaine O'Neal's .563%...). But the fact remains, that whether or not he has a much stronger post game than Perkins, he's a ball stopper who wasted far more possessions. So, by the numbers, no, not more effective, right? Stats are evidence?

The Cavs also regularly lost when O'Neal took 10 or more shots. And how about this interesting tid bit from the WSJ:

Across the board, James has been worse when playing alongside O’Neal. The most noticeable difference is Free Throw Rate. When Shaq is in the game, only 22 percent of LeBron’s possessions end in free throw attempts. When Shaq is out, that number almost doubles. The concern about Shaq clogging the lane certainly appears to have some validity.

It’s not just free throws, though. James is worse in every shooting percentage, assists, turnovers, and rebounding when Shaq is playing. Although the declines in rebounding are expected (Shaq is a great rebounder, so it’s no surprise he steals some boards from his teammates), the rest are not.

The difference between Shaq and Perk is that, even at this stage, Shaq is better able to score on his own while Perk relies more on others getting him open shots.  You can call it ball stopping OR you can say one guy can get you a basket when you really need it and the other guy can't.

And the stuff about LeBron and Shaq is perfectly valid, which is one of the reasons I didn't want Shaq as a starter for Boston.

Mike

[kenmaine]

I don't follow the NBA as closely as many here on CB, but IMO Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq are not good signings.
O'Neal has never really impressed me- well actually he impresses me as overrated, soft, lazy, and always hurt.
And Shaq has done nothing for the last three teams he's been on, except take up a lot of space and slow things down.
But Danny is far from stupid, and it's safe to say that he knows talent slightly better than I do:), so we'll see how it plays out.
I really hope I'm wrong, because I actually like Shaq- at least he has a sense of humor.

[MBunge]

Stats are evidence, even if you don't like what they have to say.

Stats are evidence when interpreted correctly and in context. Otherwise, they're just a number.

The problem is that the ONLY context you have is that all of Shaq's weaknesses are massively important and none of his strengths are to be considered, while with other players it is all of their strengths that are to be emphasized and none of their weaknessnes mentioned.

Mike

[hpantazo]

what's with the boston herald reporting that talks between Shaq and the celtics are still up in the air and that he's balking at taking the min, he wants more. Is this just not updated or is it true?

[kozlodoev]

Shaq's weaknesses are massively important and none of his strengths are to be considered

This is precisely how I feel about the issue, given that Shaq's weakness is his dubious ability to fit into any sophisticated defensive schemes, and his strength is whatever remains from his ability to score inside.

Some skills are just more important than others for the position of a backup center.

[misha]

[The Walker Wiggle]

The difference between Shaq and Perk is that, even at this stage, Shaq is better able to score on his own while Perk relies more on others getting him open shots.  You can call it ball stopping OR you can say one guy can get you a basket when you really need it and the other guy can't.

Provided he doesn't turn the ball over or get sent to the free throw line first.

[MBunge]

Shaq's weaknesses are massively important and none of his strengths are to be considered

This is precisely how I feel about the issue, given that Shaq's weakness is his dubious ability to fit into any sophisticated defensive schemes, and his strength is whatever remains from his ability to score inside.

Some skills are just more important than others for the position of a backup center.

A guy who thinks Brian Skinner would be a better pick up than Shaq clearly doesn't know anything about what basketball skills are or how they're important.

Mike

[Jack_Frost]

Contrary to recent reports, negotiations between the Celtics and Shaquille O’Neal are still far from resolution.

According to a league source, the NBA legend still appears to be balking at what the Celtics are willing to give - a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum of $1.39 million.

O’Neal, frustrated by a dwindling field of suiters that may only include the Celtics and possibly the Hawks at this point, is still attempting to get more money out of the Cs.

His only possibilities on that front would either be a second year - something Shaq openly covets - or a more lucrative sign-and-trade arrangement between the Celtics and Cleveland that would send the retiring Rasheed Wallace’s $6 million salary slot to the Cavs.

As of now, that conversation reportedly hasn’t taken place between the two teams.

BOSTON HERALD

[Q_FBE]

I happen to think Shaq will benefit a lot more on pick and rolls with Rondo, KG, Ray Allen, and he can also get offensive rebounds and he still has a reliable post up game (better than Perkins).

I don't expect more than 24 minutes out of him on a nightly basis. I think his efficiency rating will go up with a team like the Celtics. He seemed to do OK in Phoenix with Nash.

[Birdbrain]

Shaq's weaknesses are massively important and none of his strengths are to be considered

This is precisely how I feel about the issue, given that Shaq's weakness is his dubious ability to fit into any sophisticated defensive schemes, and his strength is whatever remains from his ability to score inside.

Some skills are just more important than others for the position of a backup center.

A guy who thinks Brian Skinner would be a better pick up than Shaq clearly doesn't know anything about what basketball skills are or how they're important.

Mike

I know people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to complain about the shaq signing but, is Brian Skinner even in the league anymore?  I suspect the next name thrown around as better fit will be Patty O' Bryant.  Although I guess he you could argue that his Irish heritage might be a plus.

[nickagneta]

Shaq's weaknesses are massively important and none of his strengths are to be considered

This is precisely how I feel about the issue, given that Shaq's weakness is his dubious ability to fit into any sophisticated defensive schemes, and his strength is whatever remains from his ability to score inside.

Some skills are just more important than others for the position of a backup center.

A guy who thinks Brian Skinner would be a better pick up than Shaq clearly doesn't know anything about what basketball skills are or how they're important.

Mike

Oh come on Mike. Stop insulting koz's basketball knowledge.

Go back instead to comparing his hate of Shaq to sexual fetishes....that's way more entertaining.

[kozlodoev]

I know people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to complain about the shaq signing but, is Brian Skinner even in the league anymore?  I suspect the next name thrown around as better fit will be Patty O' Bryant.  Although I guess he you could argue that his Irish heritage might be a plus.

Right, and I know people who have us pegged as a lock for the 2011 championship already. I have no stake in this argument other than exposing unrealistic expectation. In my opinion, Shaq's offensive contribution is being overstated, and his how poorly he fits defensively is being overlooked (possibly because his offensive contribution is being overstated). Marginally speaking, the difference in team wins between having him and Brown as a backup big is likely to be minimal.

[LooseCannon]

I don't follow the NBA as closely as many here on CB, but IMO Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq are not good signings.

What's your criteria for a good signing?  Jermaine O'Neal has flaws (injury-prone is the one that worries me most), but despite those flaws, a case can be made that he was the best center who could be signed for the MLE.  Other centers in that price range are Channing Frye, Brad Miller, and Darko Milicic.  JO is still an above-average starting center who is a lengthy defender.

Shaq is a more difficult case.  I don't think anyone can reasonably deny that he is the most talented center available, but he is the lesser O'Neal at this point.  The questions are more about his attitude and ability to accept a bench role than his playing ability.  Shaq is worth more than the minimum, but less than the MLE (not that the Celtics have that option, but that is roughly what Sheed's contract is).  If Boston had the LLE available, Shaq would probably be in green.  The alternative is replacing Sheed's minutes with a combination of Semih Erden and a vet min pickup who might end up being a Francisco Elson level of player. 

It's silly to insist only on sure things.  Boston has to take risks.  Are the Celtics better off gambling on Shaq or gambling on Semih Erden?

[MBunge]

I have no stake in this argument other than exposing unrealistic expectation.

Arguing that Brian Skinner would be a better back up center than Shaq is about as unrealistic as it gets.

Mike