Sam Smith: Taj Gibson for Rudy Fernandez offered (It's in Portland's hands)

[CoachBo]

I think the Wafer signing probably meant the end of Rudy to Boston. Daniels is a 2 guard that can play some SF but is probably better suited at the 2. Wafer is a pure shooting guard. Bradley, at least for now, is a combo guard, Nate is a PG who with the right partner in the back court could play the 2 if absolutely necessary.

Rudy Fernandez is a shooting guard as well.

The Celtics need a defensive oriented role playing SF or finesse PF that can guard SFs. Rasheed's contract, I believe will eventually fulfill that spot.

Rudy, I think should be scratched from people's radar.

I think you are over-estimating Danny's confidence in Wafer.  He's signed to a partially guaranteed minimum deal and was told he was gone if he screwed up.  I think you are also underestimating the Celtics willingness to go small if the talent is better that way.  This is a team that has played Eddie House as a 2 guard and Ray as a 3 for extended periods in big games.

I don't think Danny's going to turn down any talent upgrades at this point.  Fernandez is a surer bet than Wafer and Daniels to play the whole season and contribute.  He's also a good candidate to replace Ray in the near future.

 

I think you are seriously over-estimating the talent level of Rudy Fernandez if you see him as a long term starting solution after Ray Allen is gone. He is a good rotational type bench player at best.

Rudy's an excellent shooter, solid secondary playmaker, excellent transition player coming off of a terrible year.  He showed in his career in Europe and his rookie year with Portland that he can be a starting caliber shooting guard.  

Very similar player to latter-day Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, IMHO.  

Now you are just being silly.

Ray and Reggie are two of the best pure shooting shooting guards in the history of the league.

He is poor at going to the basket with the ball and finishing. Is defense is very much a major work in progress. He is prone to attempting(forcing) off balance ill advised shots. His mid range shooting is bad for a good outside shooter.

About the only thing he does at the same level as Ray and Reggie is move well without the ball and catch and shoot. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were 20 PPG, 4 APG, 4 RPG accomplished All-Stars that were team leaders and first offensive weapons types because of their all around games when they were 25 years old going on 26. Rudy is far, far, far from that.

Rudy Fernandez in the same breath as Ray Allen and Reggie Miller?

 

In honor of this board's penchant for wildly exaggerating the skills of its favorite players, in honor of Tony Allen, whose skills were exaggerated on this board at a level that will be hard to top, and in honor of this deteriorating discussion:

Rudy Fernandez is the first of what I'm sure will be many winners of Coach Bo's Tony Allen Memorial Internet Legend award.

In a tight vote, Rudy edged out Luke Harangody, whose summer league performance has many of you dusting off a spot in Springfield for him. Rudy wins a free three-day weekend in Natick with Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, two Celtics Internet legends whose scrubness left them just short of becoming the namesake of this coveted honor.

Congrats, Rudy.

[nickagneta]

Rudy Fernandez in the same breath as Ray Allen and Reggie Miller?

 

In honor of this board's penchant for wildly exaggerating the skills of its favorite players, in honor of Tony Allen, whose skills were exaggerated on this board at a level that will be hard to top, and in honor of this deteriorating discussion:

Rudy Fernandez is the first of what I'm sure will be many winners of Coach Bo's Tony Allen Memorial Internet Legend award.

In a tight vote, Rudy edged out Luke Harangody, whose summer league performance has many of you dusting off a spot in Springfield for him. Rudy wins a free three-day weekend in Natick with Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, two Celtics Internet legends whose scrubness left them just short of becoming the namesake of this coveted honor.

Congrats, Rudy.

TP...this deserves so much more than the 1 measly TP I can give you now, but rest assured, more will be forthcoming.

[snively]

I think the Wafer signing probably meant the end of Rudy to Boston. Daniels is a 2 guard that can play some SF but is probably better suited at the 2. Wafer is a pure shooting guard. Bradley, at least for now, is a combo guard, Nate is a PG who with the right partner in the back court could play the 2 if absolutely necessary.

Rudy Fernandez is a shooting guard as well.

The Celtics need a defensive oriented role playing SF or finesse PF that can guard SFs. Rasheed's contract, I believe will eventually fulfill that spot.

Rudy, I think should be scratched from people's radar.

I think you are over-estimating Danny's confidence in Wafer.  He's signed to a partially guaranteed minimum deal and was told he was gone if he screwed up.  I think you are also underestimating the Celtics willingness to go small if the talent is better that way.  This is a team that has played Eddie House as a 2 guard and Ray as a 3 for extended periods in big games.

I don't think Danny's going to turn down any talent upgrades at this point.  Fernandez is a surer bet than Wafer and Daniels to play the whole season and contribute.  He's also a good candidate to replace Ray in the near future.

 

I think you are seriously over-estimating the talent level of Rudy Fernandez if you see him as a long term starting solution after Ray Allen is gone. He is a good rotational type bench player at best.

Rudy's an excellent shooter, solid secondary playmaker, excellent transition player coming off of a terrible year.  He showed in his career in Europe and his rookie year with Portland that he can be a starting caliber shooting guard. 

Very similar player to latter-day Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, IMHO. 

Now you are just being silly.

Ray and Reggie are two of the best pure shooting shooting guards in the history of the league.

He is poor at going to the basket with the ball and finishing. Is defense is very much a major work in progress. He is prone to attempting(forcing) off balance ill advised shots. His mid range shooting is bad for a good outside shooter.

About the only thing he does at the same level as Ray and Reggie is move well without the ball and catch and shoot. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were 20 PPG, 4 APG, 4 RPG accomplished All-Stars that were team leaders and first offensive weapons types because of their all around games when they were 25 years old going on 26. Rudy is far, far, far from that.

You're just jumping at the obvious put-down here.  You did notice I said latter-day right?

I'm not comparing him to Reggie and Ray in their primes.  I'm comparing to him at the end of their careers.  I agree that in their primes, Reggie and Ray especially were far better players.

But what is Ray now?  An excellent shooter, a decent secondary playmaker and a decent defender who now depends heavily on Rondo to generate good looks for him.  Sure he's still got a few edges on Rudy (better in-between game) but the difference isn't that great anymore.  Reggie was a similar player for his last couple years.

Why is it preposterous to suggest that Rudy could play the role that the current version of Ray is filling?

[CoachBo]

Because Rudy's skills right now aren't remotely close to Ray Allen's current skillset, as Nick has already quite correctly pointed out.

Silly is a generous way to characterize this discussion. Rudy isn't close to Ray Allen. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

[Who]

I think the Wafer signing probably meant the end of Rudy to Boston. Daniels is a 2 guard that can play some SF but is probably better suited at the 2. Wafer is a pure shooting guard. Bradley, at least for now, is a combo guard, Nate is a PG who with the right partner in the back court could play the 2 if absolutely necessary.

Rudy Fernandez is a shooting guard as well.

The Celtics need a defensive oriented role playing SF or finesse PF that can guard SFs. Rasheed's contract, I believe will eventually fulfill that spot.

Rudy, I think should be scratched from people's radar.

I think you are over-estimating Danny's confidence in Wafer.  He's signed to a partially guaranteed minimum deal and was told he was gone if he screwed up.  I think you are also underestimating the Celtics willingness to go small if the talent is better that way.  This is a team that has played Eddie House as a 2 guard and Ray as a 3 for extended periods in big games.

I don't think Danny's going to turn down any talent upgrades at this point.  Fernandez is a surer bet than Wafer and Daniels to play the whole season and contribute.  He's also a good candidate to replace Ray in the near future.

 

I think you are seriously over-estimating the talent level of Rudy Fernandez if you see him as a long term starting solution after Ray Allen is gone. He is a good rotational type bench player at best.

Rudy's an excellent shooter, solid secondary playmaker, excellent transition player coming off of a terrible year.  He showed in his career in Europe and his rookie year with Portland that he can be a starting caliber shooting guard. 

Very similar player to latter-day Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, IMHO. 

Now you are just being silly.

Ray and Reggie are two of the best pure shooting shooting guards in the history of the league.

He is poor at going to the basket with the ball and finishing. Is defense is very much a major work in progress. He is prone to attempting(forcing) off balance ill advised shots. His mid range shooting is bad for a good outside shooter.

About the only thing he does at the same level as Ray and Reggie is move well without the ball and catch and shoot. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were 20 PPG, 4 APG, 4 RPG accomplished All-Stars that were team leaders and first offensive weapons types because of their all around games when they were 25 years old going on 26. Rudy is far, far, far from that.

You're just jumping at the obvious put-down here.  You did notice I said latter-day right?

I'm not comparing him to Reggie and Ray in their primes.  I'm comparing to him at the end of their careers.  I agree that in their primes, Reggie and Ray especially were far better players.

But what is Ray now?  An excellent shooter, a decent secondary playmaker and a decent defender who now depends heavily on Rondo to generate good looks for him.  Sure he's still got a few edges on Rudy (better in-between game) but the difference isn't that great anymore.  Reggie was a similar player for his last couple years.

Why is it preposterous to suggest that Rudy could play the role that the current version of Ray is filling?

Agreed -- Rudy is comparable to current day Ray Allen and is a very good option as a long term starter at the two alongside Rajon Rondo.

[snively]

I think the Wafer signing probably meant the end of Rudy to Boston. Daniels is a 2 guard that can play some SF but is probably better suited at the 2. Wafer is a pure shooting guard. Bradley, at least for now, is a combo guard, Nate is a PG who with the right partner in the back court could play the 2 if absolutely necessary.

Rudy Fernandez is a shooting guard as well.

The Celtics need a defensive oriented role playing SF or finesse PF that can guard SFs. Rasheed's contract, I believe will eventually fulfill that spot.

Rudy, I think should be scratched from people's radar.

I think you are over-estimating Danny's confidence in Wafer.  He's signed to a partially guaranteed minimum deal and was told he was gone if he screwed up.  I think you are also underestimating the Celtics willingness to go small if the talent is better that way.  This is a team that has played Eddie House as a 2 guard and Ray as a 3 for extended periods in big games.

I don't think Danny's going to turn down any talent upgrades at this point.  Fernandez is a surer bet than Wafer and Daniels to play the whole season and contribute.  He's also a good candidate to replace Ray in the near future.

 

I think you are seriously over-estimating the talent level of Rudy Fernandez if you see him as a long term starting solution after Ray Allen is gone. He is a good rotational type bench player at best.

Rudy's an excellent shooter, solid secondary playmaker, excellent transition player coming off of a terrible year.  He showed in his career in Europe and his rookie year with Portland that he can be a starting caliber shooting guard. 

Very similar player to latter-day Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, IMHO. 

Now you are just being silly.

Ray and Reggie are two of the best pure shooting shooting guards in the history of the league.

He is poor at going to the basket with the ball and finishing. Is defense is very much a major work in progress. He is prone to attempting(forcing) off balance ill advised shots. His mid range shooting is bad for a good outside shooter.

About the only thing he does at the same level as Ray and Reggie is move well without the ball and catch and shoot. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were 20 PPG, 4 APG, 4 RPG accomplished All-Stars that were team leaders and first offensive weapons types because of their all around games when they were 25 years old going on 26. Rudy is far, far, far from that.

Rudy Fernandez in the same breath as Ray Allen and Reggie Miller?

 

In honor of this board's penchant for wildly exaggerating the skills of its favorite players, in honor of Tony Allen, whose skills were exaggerated on this board at a level that will be hard to top, and in honor of this deteriorating discussion:

Rudy Fernandez is the first of what I'm sure will be many winners of Coach Bo's Tony Allen Memorial Internet Legend award.

In a tight vote, Rudy edged out Luke Harangody, whose summer league performance has many of you dusting off a spot in Springfield for him. Rudy wins a free three-day weekend in Natick with Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, two Celtics Internet legends whose scrubness left them just short of becoming the namesake of this coveted honor.

Congrats, Rudy.

Give me a break, Coach.  We can say that Perk has a comparable impact to Shaq at this point in their careers.  Of course if you broaden that comparison to include their whole careers it's a ridiculous comparison, but in the here and now, it's pretty accurate.

And why throw in Gerald Green and POB as straw men?  Neither are germane to this discussion.  Rudy's starred internationally and been a key rotation guy on two NBA playoff teams.  Gerald Green only got to see rotation minutes on a team that was gunning for Oden/Durant.

[snively]

Because Rudy's skills right now aren't remotely close to Ray Allen's current skillset, as Nick has already quite correctly pointed out.

Silly is a generous way to characterize this discussion. Rudy isn't close to Ray Allen. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

Rudy isn't bad enough to dismiss so offhandedly.  His long-range shooting ability is roughly comparable, as are his ball-handling, passing, and defensive abilities.   

[nickagneta]

Exactly.

Key rotational bench player.

He does not have what it takes to be a starter and probably won't.

Also, I could care less what he has done overseas. It's a different game there with lesser talent.

He doesn't have the mid range game, the ability to take it to the hole and finish, the defensive ability to be a reliable starter. Too many warts on his game.

He will, however, be a very good bench role player his whole time in the NBA and there is nothing wrong with that. You seem to be as infatuated with his game as he is himself. Which is probably why he wants to run back to Spain where the talent level is much worse and he can start and be a star.

[Celtics4ever]

Who wears high heel basketball shoes?  Shoes maybe add an inch not two or three.   I met some NBA guys once they were allegedly 6'8" I was 6'7" .  Guess what I was a tad taller than them as I am 6'7' in bare feet.  These guys lie about hieght wicked bad.

[Snakehead]

Exactly.

Key rotational bench player.

He does not have what it takes to be a starter and probably won't.

Also, I could care less what he has done overseas. It's a different game there with lesser talent.

He doesn't have the mid range game, the ability to take it to the hole and finish, the defensive ability to be a reliable starter. Too many warts on his game.

He will, however, be a very good bench role player his whole time in the NBA and there is nothing wrong with that. You seem to be as infatuated with his game as he is himself. Which is probably why he wants to run back to Spain where the talent level is much worse and he can start and be a star.

In bold, his finishing ability, happens to be perhaps his greatest strength... maybe you aren't very familiar with his game?

That being said, he could start at SG but would not be optimal.  He can be a really great 6th or 7th guy, and that is very valuable.  This is for sure, but since we have not seen his potential and he is yet to enter his prime, I would not rule out him being a good starting SG, there is still the possibility for that.

Also don't be surprised if the "lesser talent" of that Spanish team Rudy plays on beats Team USA this summer.  I wouldn't sleep on international play and especially not the Spanish team.

As with all internet arguments, both sides go too far.  Rudy is not a great SG starter, but would be a great bench guy.  He can really play.

[nickagneta]

Exactly.

Key rotational bench player.

He does not have what it takes to be a starter and probably won't.

Also, I could care less what he has done overseas. It's a different game there with lesser talent.

He doesn't have the mid range game, the ability to take it to the hole and finish, the defensive ability to be a reliable starter. Too many warts on his game.

He will, however, be a very good bench role player his whole time in the NBA and there is nothing wrong with that. You seem to be as infatuated with his game as he is himself. Which is probably why he wants to run back to Spain where the talent level is much worse and he can start and be a star.

In bold, his finishing ability, happens to be perhaps his greatest strength... maybe you aren't very familiar with his game?

That being said, he could start at SG but would not be optimal.  He can be a really great 6th or 7th guy, and that is very valuable.  This is for sure, but since we have not seen his potential and he is yet to enter his prime, I would not rule out him being a good starting SG, there is still the possibility for that.

Also don't be surprised if the "lesser talent" of that Spanish team Rudy plays on beats Team USA this summer.  I wouldn't sleep on international play and especially not the Spanish team.

As with all internet arguments, both sides go too far.  Rudy is not a great SG starter, but would be a great bench guy.  He can really play.

Actually am familiar with his game and finishing WHILE taking the ball to the hole is not a strength of his. He has trouble dribbling through lanes while keeping control of the ball and finishing off the drive. That is what I meant.

He is good as an alley oop partner for PG or a wing partner on the break running to the basket as a target for the person leading the break. Those he finishes well at. But having the ball on the perimeter and taking his man off the dribble to the basket to finish, that he is not good at, probably because of his lack of strength and size because he can be easily misdirected through body contact.

[Snakehead]

Exactly.

Key rotational bench player.

He does not have what it takes to be a starter and probably won't.

Also, I could care less what he has done overseas. It's a different game there with lesser talent.

He doesn't have the mid range game, the ability to take it to the hole and finish, the defensive ability to be a reliable starter. Too many warts on his game.

He will, however, be a very good bench role player his whole time in the NBA and there is nothing wrong with that. You seem to be as infatuated with his game as he is himself. Which is probably why he wants to run back to Spain where the talent level is much worse and he can start and be a star.

In bold, his finishing ability, happens to be perhaps his greatest strength... maybe you aren't very familiar with his game?

That being said, he could start at SG but would not be optimal.  He can be a really great 6th or 7th guy, and that is very valuable.  This is for sure, but since we have not seen his potential and he is yet to enter his prime, I would not rule out him being a good starting SG, there is still the possibility for that.

Also don't be surprised if the "lesser talent" of that Spanish team Rudy plays on beats Team USA this summer.  I wouldn't sleep on international play and especially not the Spanish team.

As with all internet arguments, both sides go too far.  Rudy is not a great SG starter, but would be a great bench guy.  He can really play.

Actually am familiar with his game and finishing WHILE taking the ball to the hole is not a strength of his. He has trouble dribbling through lanes while keeping control of the ball and finishing off the drive. That is what I meant.

He is good as an alley oop partner for PG or a wing partner on the break running to the basket as a target for the person leading the break. Those he finishes well at. But having the ball on the perimeter and taking his man off the dribble to the basket to finish, that he is not good at, probably because of his lack of strength and size because he can be easily misdirected through body contact.

Fair enough but I would not say it is a weakness of his, just that he does not excel at it.  With his ability to handle the ball and his shooting ability, off the fake I'd say he can definitely penetrate.  Perhaps he can't finish that well against the bigger guys in the NBA but we will see, I think you might be underrting him a bit there.  Lots of smaller and thinner guards can still get in the lane and draw fouls.  You can only be so physical.  He is also a pretty good passer so if help comes he will be able to dump the ball off to a big like Shaq on the second unit or hit an open guy on the perimeter.

Off ball, he is very active and good at cutting backdoor and through the lane and Rondo will be able to use that very, very often.  More than in Portland certainly and you would still see him using his cutting ability often there.  In the open court he would be great for this Celtics team and a good finisher.

[nickagneta]

Also, regarding the talent in Europe, my comment was geared towards the Euroleague teams that are situated in Spain and not the Spain National t5eam that plays internationally. The Spain National team is very talented but teams in Spain that play Euroleague Basketball, are no where near as talented as teams are in the NBA.

There are reasons why players like Josh Childress and Linas Kleiza would be top 10 scorers in the Euroleague yet wouldn't be able to start for most NBA clubs. The talent level drop off is significant.

[Snakehead]

Also, regarding the talent in Europe, my comment was geared towards the Euroleague teams that are situated in Spain and not the Spain National t5eam that plays internationally. The Spain National team is very talented but teams in Spain that play Euroleague Basketball, are no where near as talented as teams are in the NBA.

There are reasons why players like Josh Childress and Linas Kleiza would be top 10 scorers in the Euroleague yet wouldn't be able to start for most NBA clubs. The talent level drop off is significant.

You are right, my point was mainly just that you will see Rudy play a big role on a very good Spanish team this summer.