Author Topic: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta  (Read 11603 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2010, 11:39:17 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2939
  • Tommy Points: 235
  • 36 charges and counting..
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
Little Fockers 1.5/10
Gulliver's Travels 1/10
Grown Ups -20/10
Tron Legacy 6.5/10

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 11:41:27 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
So he's not a rebounder? And he's not athletic?

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2010, 11:42:02 AM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52857
  • Tommy Points: 2569
I think Atlanta would count as a contender. They're not quite there but they're only one move away.

They would be especially interesting to player like Shaquille O'Neal who feels he is still a very good player + that he can be that one move that pushes them over the top and gives them a real shot at a ring.

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2010, 11:48:59 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2939
  • Tommy Points: 235
  • 36 charges and counting..
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
So he's not a rebounder? And he's not athletic?

No I don't consider him either actually.  Tall and young are more apt IMO.
Little Fockers 1.5/10
Gulliver's Travels 1/10
Grown Ups -20/10
Tron Legacy 6.5/10

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2010, 12:12:57 PM »

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!
At this point I would be all over Louis Amundson before I would even think of Shaq.

His Per36 numbers last year 11.4 points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks 0,9 steals shooting 55% from the field. Need a backup center for 10-15 minutes that can rebound and block shots, there's your guy.

Putting his theoretical stats aside, Amundson averaged 4.7 pts and 4.4 rebs in 14.8 minutes in the regular season, 2.9 pts and 3.5 rebs in 12.1 minutes in the playoffs.  He's also just 6'9'' and was clearly outmatched by the Laker bigs in the halfcourt during their playoff series.

His is only 28 and appears to be a pretty energetic and aggressive player, so he might be a good fit with Nate, TA and Davis.

Mike

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2010, 12:26:32 PM »

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!
At this point I would be all over Louis Amundson before I would even think of Shaq.

His Per36 numbers last year 11.4 points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks 0,9 steals shooting 55% from the field. Need a backup center for 10-15 minutes that can rebound and block shots, there's your guy.

Putting his theoretical stats aside, Amundson averaged 4.7 pts and 4.4 rebs in 14.8 minutes in the regular season, 2.9 pts and 3.5 rebs in 12.1 minutes in the playoffs.  He's also just 6'9'' and was clearly outmatched by the Laker bigs in the halfcourt during their playoff series.

His is only 28 and appears to be a pretty energetic and aggressive player, so he might be a good fit with Nate, Marquis and Davis.

Mike

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2010, 12:33:04 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!
At this point I would be all over Louis Amundson before I would even think of Shaq.

His Per36 numbers last year 11.4 points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks 0,9 steals shooting 55% from the field. Need a backup center for 10-15 minutes that can rebound and block shots, there's your guy.

Putting his theoretical stats aside, Amundson averaged 4.7 pts and 4.4 rebs in 14.8 minutes in the regular season, 2.9 pts and 3.5 rebs in 12.1 minutes in the playoffs.  He's also just 6'9'' and was clearly outmatched by the Laker bigs in the halfcourt during their playoff series.

His is only 28 and appears to be a pretty energetic and aggressive player, so he might be a good fit with Nate, TA and Davis.

Mike
Theoretical? How else are you suppose to gauge a bench players stats unless it's by a per minute basis? I guess I could have put down his per minute stats but they are meaningless in interpretation, hence why people use PER36, PER40 and PER48 metrics.

Your buddy Shaq had PER36 numbers of 18.5 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and shot 56%. In just about every category except scoring, Amundson was more productive on the court on a per minute basis than Shaq at 1/20th the price.

He's a great role player for short money. And yes he's 6'9" but he has a 7' wingspan and a good vertical leap. I don't expect wonders from the man but I would expect 15 MPG, excellent rebounding, good defense, good shot blocking, and some great garbageman scoring, especially of offensive boards. And I don't see that this team needs much more than that right now.

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2010, 12:47:44 PM »

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!
At this point I would be all over Louis Amundson before I would even think of Shaq.

His Per36 numbers last year 11.4 points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks 0,9 steals shooting 55% from the field. Need a backup center for 10-15 minutes that can rebound and block shots, there's your guy.

Putting his theoretical stats aside, Amundson averaged 4.7 pts and 4.4 rebs in 14.8 minutes in the regular season, 2.9 pts and 3.5 rebs in 12.1 minutes in the playoffs.  He's also just 6'9'' and was clearly outmatched by the Laker bigs in the halfcourt during their playoff series.

His is only 28 and appears to be a pretty energetic and aggressive player, so he might be a good fit with Nate, TA and Davis.

Mike
Theoretical? How else are you suppose to gauge a bench players stats unless it's by a per minute basis? I guess I could have put down his per minute stats but they are meaningless in interpretation, hence why people use PER36, PER40 and PER48 metrics.

Your buddy Shaq had PER36 numbers of 18.5 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and shot 56%. In just about every category except scoring, Amundson was more productive on the court on a per minute basis than Shaq at 1/20th the price.

He's a great role player for short money. And yes he's 6'9" but he has a 7' wingspan and a good vertical leap. I don't expect wonders from the man but I would expect 15 MPG, excellent rebounding, good defense, good shot blocking, and some great garbageman scoring, especially of offensive boards. And I don't see that this team needs much more than that right now.

One way you judge a bench player is by what keeps him on the bench.  If Amundson is so darn productive, why wasn't he playing 36 minutes a game instead of having to fantasize about what he might do with that time on the court?

Secondly, when comparing him to Shaq on PER 36 numbers, they have basically the same rebounding rate, Shaq has a better shooting percentage and much better scoring, Amundson has better shot blocking.  The difference is that Shaq HAS ACTUALLY PRODUCED AT THOSE LEVELS WHILE AMUNDSON NEVER HAS.  I emphasize because a guy who's actually done something is different than a guy who might do something.

Amundson also doesn't spread the almighty court, was physically outmatched by the Laker bigs in the playoffs and since Ainge is clearly not going to give Shaq 6 to 8 million to sign, the two players will end up being paid pretty much the same if they come to Boston. At most Shaq might get two or three times the vet min Amundson would receive.

And by the way, until Perk comes back and perhaps even after that, Boston's back up center in going to have to play significantly more than 10 to 15 minutes a game.

Mike

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2010, 12:50:56 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
So he's not a rebounder? And he's not athletic?

No I don't consider him either actually.  Tall and young are more apt IMO.
So Perkins isn't a rebounder?

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2010, 12:54:33 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2939
  • Tommy Points: 235
  • 36 charges and counting..
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
So he's not a rebounder? And he's not athletic?

No I don't consider him either actually.  Tall and young are more apt IMO.
So Perkins isn't a rebounder?

Yes he rebounds the ball but, he's not a good rebounder which is what I assumed you were referring to when you said athletic rebounder.  But if you meant he happens to catch the ball when it falls off the rim occasionally then yes I agree he's a rebounder.
Little Fockers 1.5/10
Gulliver's Travels 1/10
Grown Ups -20/10
Tron Legacy 6.5/10

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2010, 01:08:14 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!

Only Toronto thinks Amir Johnson is young athletic rebounder.
What makes him not young? He's 24, he's certainly athletic, and he rebounds at 16.3 rate and 9.9 per 36 minutes (comparable to Perkins)

Fair point about him being young.
So he's not a rebounder? And he's not athletic?

No I don't consider him either actually.  Tall and young are more apt IMO.
So Perkins isn't a rebounder?

Yes he rebounds the ball but, he's not a good rebounder which is what I assumed you were referring to when you said athletic rebounder.  But if you meant he happens to catch the ball when it falls off the rim occasionally then yes I agree he's a rebounder.
What's your critera for a player being a "rebounder"?

Because Perkins and Johnson rank in the top 50 in the league. Thats not bad at all.

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2010, 01:18:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Because Perkins and Johnson rank in the top 50 in the league. Thats not bad at all.
Just for perspective, if you're the 50th best rebounders in the league, this means that on average, every team has 1-2 rebounders that are better than you. That's not too good.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2010, 01:43:11 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Because Perkins and Johnson rank in the top 50 in the league. Thats not bad at all.
Just for perspective, if you're the 50th best rebounders in the league, this means that on average, every team has 1-2 rebounders that are better than you. That's not too good.
So to be a rebounder you have to be in the top 30? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If you're top 30 you're elite, if you're top 50 you're just good.

Perkins was 33rd Johnson was 41st, so on average its better to say they'd be the second best rebounder on their team, that's not bad either. Especially when you look at the spread of rebound rates. There are 6 above 20, 1 at 19, 8 in 18s, and then it clusters around 17 and 16s.

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2010, 01:53:26 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
I'm just saying that being top 50 means that you may be the second, if not the third best rebounder on your team. I guessr he qualitative evaluation of this statement is in the eye of the beholder, though your clustering argument makes sense.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Shaq Might Still Sign With Atlanta
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2010, 01:54:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I'm not sure what all the Shaq infatuation is.  He's waaaay past his prime.  I would much rather have a young, athletic type defender/rebounder that will sign for the vet min rather than wasting Sheed's contract on Shaq.
The problem is that young athletic rebounder types get signed to big deals.

Look at Amir Johnson!
At this point I would be all over Louis Amundson before I would even think of Shaq.

His Per36 numbers last year 11.4 points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks 0,9 steals shooting 55% from the field. Need a backup center for 10-15 minutes that can rebound and block shots, there's your guy.

Putting his theoretical stats aside, Amundson averaged 4.7 pts and 4.4 rebs in 14.8 minutes in the regular season, 2.9 pts and 3.5 rebs in 12.1 minutes in the playoffs.  He's also just 6'9'' and was clearly outmatched by the Laker bigs in the halfcourt during their playoff series.

His is only 28 and appears to be a pretty energetic and aggressive player, so he might be a good fit with Nate, TA and Davis.

Mike
Theoretical? How else are you suppose to gauge a bench players stats unless it's by a per minute basis? I guess I could have put down his per minute stats but they are meaningless in interpretation, hence why people use PER36, PER40 and PER48 metrics.

Your buddy Shaq had PER36 numbers of 18.5 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and shot 56%. In just about every category except scoring, Amundson was more productive on the court on a per minute basis than Shaq at 1/20th the price.

He's a great role player for short money. And yes he's 6'9" but he has a 7' wingspan and a good vertical leap. I don't expect wonders from the man but I would expect 15 MPG, excellent rebounding, good defense, good shot blocking, and some great garbageman scoring, especially of offensive boards. And I don't see that this team needs much more than that right now.

One way you judge a bench player is by what keeps him on the bench.  If Amundson is so darn productive, why wasn't he playing 36 minutes a game instead of having to fantasize about what he might do with that time on the court?

Secondly, when comparing him to Shaq on PER 36 numbers, they have basically the same rebounding rate, Shaq has a better shooting percentage and much better scoring, Amundson has better shot blocking.  The difference is that Shaq HAS ACTUALLY PRODUCED AT THOSE LEVELS WHILE AMUNDSON NEVER HAS.  I emphasize because a guy who's actually done something is different than a guy who might do something.

Amundson also doesn't spread the almighty court, was physically outmatched by the Laker bigs in the playoffs and since Ainge is clearly not going to give Shaq 6 to 8 million to sign, the two players will end up being paid pretty much the same if they come to Boston. At most Shaq might get two or three times the vet min Amundson would receive.

And by the way, until Perk comes back and perhaps even after that, Boston's back up center in going to have to play significantly more than 10 to 15 minutes a game.

Mike
And the difference is that Amundson would come in and give this team what it needs while putting his ego at the door and making zero demands and causing zero locker room drama. The has been formerly known as Shaq carries so much baggage and demands that it just is not worth having him come into a situation where he has to play a role.

He's never done it. It is not in his nature not to be the star. It's not in his nature to keep his mouth shut and do what he is supposed to do no matter how menial the task. You get role players like Amundson and Brad Miller and Lamar Odom and Jared Dudley and Chris Anderson because they know how to play a role with as little griping and bemoaning and demands as possible and they give you specific skills without all the drama and demands that ex-stars, like Iverson and Shaq and McGrady come with. They are reliable and dependable.

Shaq for all the stats you throw out is a drama queen, attention seeking, egomaniac and the last thing Doc needs after having to babysit Rasheed Wallace all last year is more BS in the clubhouse coming from a 15-20 MPG role playing bench player.

You just do not seem to get this!!!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 02:08:08 PM by nickagneta »